CBL Banned??

[dchum]

No lion at all, or CBL as comforting substitute?

Right, if it gets to that point... than we have failed wild lions and don’t deserve any lion.

The modern goal of hunting Africa is to support habitat via $$ and that habitat is crucial to WILD animals. CBL lions don’t need habitat. You could hunt one in a parking lot If need be.

 

[LivingTheDream]

No lion at all for me if the only choice is CBL. Wine and dine a woman, interact, enjoy the chase or just go hire an escort, same difference in my view.

Some believe that you aren't paying for the "services" you are paying to tell them to leave. Just a funny counter point.

 

[revturbo9967]

I actually hate the CBL debates in hunting forums. In part because I hate hunters arguing with hunters over disparity or difference in opinion of hunting practices.

Shooting is not the same thing as hunting, and that's where this debate always breaks down.

The argument that "hunters shouldn't argue with other hunters over differences of opinion of hunting practices" ignores the fact that not every animal kill qualifies as hunting. A captive-bred lion raised specifically to be shot behind a fence is fundamentally different from pursuing a truly wild animal.

Hunting involves uncertainty. The animal is free ranging, relying on its instincts to survive. The hunter has to locate it, track it, stalk it, avoid being detected, and ultimately earn an opportunity at a shot. Success is never guaranteed.

When an animal is bred in captivity, released onto a fenced property, and has no realistic ability to escape the circumstances it was placed in, the challenge shifts dramatically. At that point, many hunters view it less as hunting and more as a controlled shooting exercise.

That's why this argument refuses to die. It's not simply "hunters fighting with hunters." It's a disagreement over where the line exists between fair chase hunting and the commercial production of animals for harvest. Until everyone agrees on that definition, the debate will continue.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

So many areas fall into this same debate. Shooting is not the same thing as hunting. Like long range hunting starts becoming more about shooting and less about hunting the further the distance grows. I definitely and wholeheartedly agree that hunting should be free ranging and up close. While I enjoy long range shooting, I’m not a long range hunter. Some are, but don’t see it as my form of hunting.

I prefer free range but do not fault those who enjoy and repeatedly hunt high fence properties in South Africa or the US. Not my preference, not free range, but it suits many and at least in parts of South Africa it’s a must for any game to exist.

Fair chase hunting is defined with relative clarity in places such as Boone and Crockett and similarly Rigby’s Dugga Boy (at least last I looked). Free ranging without high boundary fencing. But hunting extends past that definition. Agreed, it evolves, or devolves, the further away you get.

End of the day, this debate appears dead soon…and I guarantee you, every hunting forum you can find will have other spit spats over whatever topics folks can find to argue about and divide. I do believe that antihunters are better in remaining unified toward their goal, and as hunters we seem better at trying to find ways to divide.

 

[SETH RINGER]

Has anyone ever booked a CBL hunt and gone home without killing one? It’s harvesting.

No, its called shooting the house cat.

I DON'T WANT TO CAST TOO WIDE A NET AND DISPARAGE ANYBODY BUT IN THE BROAD SCHEME A BUNCH OF US HIRE A TRAVEL AGENT FOR OUR TICKET, A GUY TO GET OUR GUN PERMIT, SOMEONE MEETS US AT THE AIRPORT AND WISKS US AWAY TO A DESTINATION THAT HAS PEOPLE WAITING TO COOK FOR US, SCOUT, TRACK, SKIN, SET THE STICK UP, ETC FOR US, HELL OPEN OUR COLD BEER HALF THE TIME FOR US. AND THE ANIMALS YOU "HUNT" AND POST PICTS ON HERE OF HOW CAN YOU CALL THEM ANY MORE THAN A HARVEST?

 

[HookMeUpII]

End of the day, this debate appears dead soon…and I guarantee you, every hunting forum you can find will have other spit spats over whatever topics folks can find to argue about and divide. I do believe that antihunters are better in remaining unified toward their goal, and as hunters we seem better at trying to find ways to divide.

This is the crux of the argument right here and many others have said it.

I absolutely hate the idea of CBL hunting. However, this is where hunting starts to slide down the slope. Next it becomes no hunting PG in a high fence area less than 30k acres, then it becomes 50k, then it becomes 100k, until it's no high fence hunting at all.

Once we start banning things, it cracks the door ever so slightly.

I would never, and will never, hunt a CBL. However, for those who want to do so legally in the proper location with proper permits, I support them in their shoot.

 

[revturbo9967]

This is the crux of the argument right here and many others have said it.

I absolutely hate the idea of CBL hunting. However, this is where hunting starts to slide down the slope. Next it becomes no hunting PG in a high fence area less than 30k acres, then it becomes 50k, then it becomes 100k, until it's no high fence hunting at all.

Once we start banning things, it cracks the door ever so slightly.

I would never, and will never, hunt a CBL. However, for those who want to do so legally in the proper location with proper permits, I support them in their shoot.

Take the fence down, and this argument is non existent.

 

[Rare Breed]

Too funny @Tanks ...if I did not know better, I would think you may be dipping into a little amber liquid!!!

 

[Tanks]

HOW CAN YOU CALL THEM ANY MORE THAN A HARVEST?

By having failure as an option. I wanted a Kudu at the Zambezi valley, never got a shot at one, ditto for a Zebra at Kazuma.

CBL is shooting fish in a bucket.

 

[Rare Breed]

I was going to let this pass but I have to comment. You hunted leopard over a bait as I shortly will be doing with a rifle in basically a gun sled already centered on the bait…The wind in your favor hidden completely in a blind and you don’t think that is “shooting fish in a barrel?”. You have not done a CBL hunt I have so what do you know about it rather it’s your opinion which is fine but you have zero experience. You wrongly assume these are some “pet” lions…you could not be more wrong as mine charged me dying at 7 yards. I love people talking about things they have never done but they think they know. Come on Andy you are better than this? No problem whatsoever with you never wanting to do a CBL hunt, as for me I will never ever forget mine as my video showed based on actual experience documented

 

[dchum]

I was going to let this pass but I have to comment. You hunted leopard over a bait as I shortly will be doing with a rifle in basically a gun sled already centered on the bait…The wind in your favor hidden completely in a blind and you don’t think that is “shooting fish in a barrel?”. You have not done a CBL hunt I have so what do you know about it rather it’s your opinion which is fine but you have zero experience. You wrongly assume these are some “pet” lions…you could not be more wrong as mine charged me dying at 7 yards. I love people talking about things they have never done but they think they know. Come on Andy you are better than this? No problem whatsoever with you never wanting to do a CBL hunt, as for me I will never ever forget mine as my video showed based on actual experience documented

The leopard was not released from captivity for a specific hunter. It’s an incredible wild animal that is cunning and shy.


Your CBL was literally raised by humans and fed by humans until you decided to send a deposit. Then a week Prior to your arrival they most likely put it in an enclosed trailer and just opened the enclosure and released it for you to shoot. That’s the truth of these hunts. You think because you were charged by the lion that washes what the whole system is??

And again, one supports wild habitat and other large WILD cats. While your CBL did NOT help wild cat habitat or wild cats.

Just be a man and say what it is. You enjoyed killing your large lion. You enjoy the killing and shooting and charging. It was exciting and you had a good time. But it was released for you after being fed by humans it’s hole life and raised in captivity. And you don’t care about that part. Just call it what it is, That money does not support wild habitat or wild animals.

Quit trying to justify it by saying wild leopard hunts are shooting fish in a barrel because of bait.

You are just a hunter who will get his “big 5” by any means necessary. Like shooting a lion raised in captivity or taking a juvenile elephant bull. What ever it takes to check off the list

Unfortunately I know you have me muted so you won’t see my response haha.

 

[Jon G]

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The thread has digressed a few degrees from the OP into the spectrum of ethics & morals in CBL hunting. So allow me to come in here with a few lines of my experiences.

I had done both - a RSA CB lioness & a free ranging lioness. The one cost $ 6.000/- & the other you can add another zero to with a 2 at the front.

The RSA hunt I insisted on walking / tracking from the gate, carrying a Krieghoff .375 & iron sights & I wanted to shoot from withing 30 meters. We were 2 PHs, 2 trackers, my wife & I. We picnic'd in the veld & were out all day. Day 2 around 4 pm we tracked up on a lioness (approx 6 years) & I shot her with both barrels at about 20 meters.

The other hunt, I shot the lioness over a bait on day 2 in the early evening out of a blind at about 75 m with a scoped 9,3x62.

I know which one I would do again.

I have always believed that if it is legal & rocks your boat then do it. So much of today`s hunting is behind fences whether in Africa or the USA or Europe.

Would I hunt a CBL again, sure I would, same way I shoot reared pheasant & partridge in the UK or plains game on farms in RSA & Namibia. I also get a rush out of DG in Zim & Zambia. Would I hunt a lion in Zim ? I would love to, but that would be a huge chunk of $s out of my hunting budget for the next years!

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I did my lioness hunt a couple of years ago . It was a CBL, but I really enjoyed it, from the start to finish.

 

[Siennacoyote]

I won’t do a cbl just because I can’t keep anything. I never considered one before but with them going away i became interested. I’m not able to spend the money on a wild lion. For the guy that compared it to buying an escort . Cool let me get on with my day

 

[revturbo9967]

I was going to let this pass but I have to comment. You hunted leopard over a bait as I shortly will be doing with a rifle in basically a gun sled already centered on the bait…The wind in your favor hidden completely in a blind and you don’t think that is “shooting fish in a barrel?”. You have not done a CBL hunt I have so what do you know about it rather it’s your opinion which is fine but you have zero experience. You wrongly assume these are some “pet” lions…you could not be more wrong as mine charged me dying at 7 yards. I love people talking about things they have never done but they think they know. Come on Andy you are better than this? No problem whatsoever with you never wanting to do a CBL hunt, as for me I will never ever forget mine as my video showed based on actual experience documented

leopard hunting over bait is specifically designed to increase the odds of getting a shot opportunity on an animal that is otherwise incredibly difficult to hunt. You use bait, blinds, favorable winds, shooting rests, and often wait for days for a mature tom to make a mistake.

The difference is that leopard hunting is still pursuing a wild, free-ranging predator that can leave the area entirely, go nocturnal, avoid the bait, or simply never show up. Plenty of leopard hunts end with no cat on the ground.

A captive-bred lion hunt is fundamentally different because the animal itself exists due to the hunting operation. The lion isn't being hunted because it naturally occurs on that landscape; it's there because it was bred, raised, and managed specifically for hunters.

As for your lion charging at seven yards, that's an exciting ending to the hunt, but a dangerous ending doesn't automatically make the process leading up to it fair chase or the same as hunting a wild lion.

You're free to enjoy your hunt. I'm free to disagree with the model behind it. Those are two different conversations.

 

[Rare Breed]

Fair respected points made

 

[Nevada Wapati]

I've done both baited leopard and CBL hunts. Personally, I enjoyed the CBL hunt more. It was a day and a half tracking on foot. Jumping the lion several times before a shot opportunity.
Sitting in a blind waiting for an animal to show up isn't as exciting for me.

 

[Rare Breed]

Fair respected points made

Also last year I spent 15 full days hunting my first leopard to no avail so I have lived that feeling...still an exciting hunt with Lou Hallamore who I learned so much from!!!

 

[dchum]

I've done both baited leopard and CBL hunts. Personally, I enjoyed the CBL hunt more. It was a day and a half tracking on foot. Jumping the lion several times before a shot opportunity.
Sitting in a blind waiting for an animal to show up isn't as exciting for me.

Genuine question.

You don’t care the lion raised in captivity and fed by humans. Then was released at most a month prior only for you to kill?

Or does the hunt and the excitement outweigh that? Or is it just a non issue for you?

Again, genuine questions. Just wanting to understand the pro CBL side a bit more.

Thanks! Nice ele in your profile picture by the way!

 

[Russ16]

I've done both baited leopard and CBL hunts. Personally, I enjoyed the CBL hunt more. It was a day and a half tracking on foot. Jumping the lion several times before a shot opportunity.
Sitting in a blind waiting for an animal to show up isn't as exciting for me.

No one has ever said CBL wasn’t exciting or fun. That’s not the debate.

it’s a matter of where it fits on everyone’s ethical continuum and whether or not it contributes to conservation.

I shoot pen raised pheasants.ot is good for trining my dogs and it can be a fun way to extend the season. But it isn’t hunting, it’s shooting. I have many days in some of the best pheasant hunting areas in the US where I never killed a bird. That isn’t happening with released birds.

For whatever reason I’m comfortable with captive bred birds but not captive bred big game.