Bullet Performance Database

CDorroh

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
97
Reaction score
198
Location
Kentucky, USA
Media
9
Hunted
USA, Canada
This was fired from my friend's .270 when he killed a black bear last week. It definitely was effective as the animal only took 1 step and then 'fell over like a tree' as he put it. Before the hunt he had asked me for suggestions for ammunition. I recommended something loaded with heavy, bonded bullets. These Sako Hammerheads fit that description. However I'm not impressed with how the bullet held together (or failed to, rather). It retained 30.8% of its weight. In the close up picture I was trying to show how it basically lost its core, with a small amount of lead still bound to the jacket. At the end of the day, it did result in a clean kill, but I don't believe I would recommend these on heavier game such as elk or moose.

IMG_2839.JPG
IMG_2840.JPG
 
Last edited by a moderator:

colorado

AH elite
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
1,205
Reaction score
1,331
Media
59
Seemed to work, yet the bullet failed. I've used Nosler Partitions in our 270 (150g) and they work like a charm on black bears. I've also killed them with a 243 shooting 105g Speer spitzer (which held together a lot better than the bullet shown above) and 230g hardball from a 1911 45. Black bears are dangerous when cornered but they are not hard to kill.
 

Ray B

AH legend
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
2,862
Reaction score
3,581
Location
WA St, USA
Media
77
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
1
Appears the bonding wasn't adequate in the base and the bonding on the sides held, but the main of the core separated from the jacket. Had the base remained bonded it is likely the core would have remained in the jacket. If this is process is normal to the bullet, I would let the manufacturer see the results as they should want to adjust their process for a more secure bonding.
 

lcq

AH elite
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Messages
1,493
Reaction score
1,317
Media
10
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
4
Member of
NRA CSSA
Hunted
Canada, RSA
at the cost of HammerHeads I would be very unhappy with cup and core performance. Core-Lokts are head and shoulders better than that at 1/2 the price
 

colorado

AH elite
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
1,205
Reaction score
1,331
Media
59
Hunts, even DIY hunts for common American species like deer, black bear and elk are expensive compared to the minimal extra cost to get a truly premium bullet. Obviously neither you or your friend was trying to save money on ammo. A tried and true bullet like a Partition, A-Frame, TSX or Woodleigh is really the way to go unless you have a ton of hunting days per year and are willing to experiment (and fail) on game.
 

CDorroh

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
97
Reaction score
198
Location
Kentucky, USA
Media
9
Hunted
USA, Canada
at the cost of HammerHeads I would be very unhappy with cup and core performance. Core-Lokts are head and shoulders better than that at 1/2 the price

That is pretty much exactly what I thought when I first saw the bullet. He had asked me about Core-Lokts, and I (incorrectly) assumed that these would be superior based on the fact that they're bonded and the literature published by Sako. Literally the first thing I said to him about the projectile as we were examining it was "I suspect a Core-Lokt would have performed just as well, if not better."

Hunts, even DIY hunts for common American species like deer, black bear and elk are expensive compared to the minimal extra cost to get a truly premium bullet. Obviously neither you or your friend was trying to save money on ammo. A tried and true bullet like a Partition, A-Frame, TSX or Woodleigh is really the way to go unless you have a ton of hunting days per year and are willing to experiment (and fail) on game.

Yeah, we thought he was buying a premium bullet. It came down to the wire acquiring his ammo and sighting in his rifle before the hunt. Our local store didn't have much to choose from in stock, and we didn't have time to order his ammunition and wait for it to ship. I was hoping these would perform similar to a Woodleigh (which is what my rifle was loaded with), but it clearly did not.
 

CTDolan

AH elite
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1,450
Location
Minnesota
Media
18
Articles
1
I find it interesting how often mono-metal bullets (Barnes X and such) seem to fail to open. Despite the hollow point and all, here we've two cases of this kind of bullet slipping right along, essentially undisturbed. My guess is that it tumbles before expansion is underway, more or less traveling base first after entry. Why? Because military ball ammo does the exact same thing, and is designed to behave as such (and, as you know, the profile of one is not all that different from the profile of the other).
 

MAdcox

Gold supporter
AH fanatic
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
755
Reaction score
1,276
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Media
89
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
DSC; DSCOK
Hunted
Oklahoma, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, South Africa (Limpopo, Northern Cape)
I find it interesting how often mono-metal bullets (Barnes X and such) seem to fail to open. Despite the hollow point and all, here we've two cases of this kind of bullet slipping right along, essentially undisturbed. My guess is that it tumbles before expansion is underway, more or less traveling base first after entry. Why? Because military ball ammo does the exact same thing, and is designed to behave as such (and, as you know, the profile of one is not all that different from the profile of the other).
If you look closely at the picture I posted earlier in this thread of my Barnes TSX that failed to open on my Kudu, you'll see it started to open but then kind of smeared off. It was found in the off side hide pointing the direction you would expect. It wasn't tumbling. I believe (and it is somewhat a wild ass guess) it hit the point of the shoulder, started to expand properly on the hide then angled off the shoulder bone causing the petals to not continue to expand the way they are designed to. It then went through the heart and lungs and almost exited behind the off side ribs.
 

CTDolan

AH elite
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1,450
Location
Minnesota
Media
18
Articles
1
If you look closely at the picture I posted earlier in this thread of my Barnes TSX that failed to open on my Kudu, you'll see it started to open but then kind of smeared off. It was found in the off side hide pointing the direction you would expect. It wasn't tumbling. I believe (and it is somewhat a wild ass guess) it hit the point of the shoulder, started to expand properly on the hide then angled off the shoulder bone causing the petals to not continue to expand the way they are designed to. It then went through the heart and lungs and almost exited behind the off side ribs.

I looked closely at the image you posted (as I did the other) but it nevertheless makes no sense to me, that one bullet should have expanded, splendidly, whereas the other, not. The only conclusion I can reach is that it tumbled and was traveling backward, at least over the duration wherein the velocity was sufficient to promote expansion.
 

colorado

AH elite
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
1,205
Reaction score
1,331
Media
59
I'm kind of old school (old too lol). I like A-Frames and Partitions (for thin skinned game). We've had great luck with 150g Partitions at 3000 fps from our 270s, as well as with the Remington factory 375 H&H 300g A-Frames on both brown bear and black bear. I've only shot a feral hog and a couple of elk with my 500 Jeffery but both the 570g TSX and the 570g A-Frame performed admirably (as you would expect)
 

Ridgewalker

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
6,938
Reaction score
8,347
Location
Colorado
Media
231
Hunting reports
Africa
3
USA/Canada
4
Hunted
South Africa: Limpopo, Northwest; USA: Ak, Mt, Wy, Co, Ne, Ks, Nv, NM, Tx
2017 Cape buffalo bull at 25-30 yards. Left side through the heart and found under the skin on the off side. MRC in 375 H&H. Hard to tell what is the bullet and what is the picture on the box. My second shot above the tail into the spine broke him down, but it was not recovered. Muzzle velocity was 2,529 fps @ 15 ft. Accuracy is typically .62-1.0" for 3 shots @ 100 m.

IMG_1616.JPG
IMG_1617.JPG
IMG_1618.JPG
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rule 303

AH fanatic
Joined
Oct 6, 2015
Messages
819
Reaction score
872
Location
Brisbane
Media
6
Hunted
Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe & Namibia
If you look closely at the picture I posted earlier in this thread of my Barnes TSX that failed to open on my Kudu, you'll see it started to open but then kind of smeared off. It was found in the off side hide pointing the direction you would expect. It wasn't tumbling. I believe (and it is somewhat a wild ass guess) it hit the point of the shoulder, started to expand properly on the hide then angled off the shoulder bone causing the petals to not continue to expand the way they are designed to. It then went through the heart and lungs and almost exited behind the off side ribs.

Having looked at your pic and those of other such fail to open-I wont say fail as some still kill the animal- I note some similarities. 1) Most ended up turning and traveling base first. 2) Most appear to have hit bone with the side of the nose near the tip and push the hollow point closed. 3) Most appear to then have skidded along bone for a short distance.

These are just some observation and are by no means definitive but maybe indicative.
 

Ridgewalker

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
6,938
Reaction score
8,347
Location
Colorado
Media
231
Hunting reports
Africa
3
USA/Canada
4
Hunted
South Africa: Limpopo, Northwest; USA: Ak, Mt, Wy, Co, Ne, Ks, Nv, NM, Tx
JMO, but every bullet can fail if given the wrong situation. Our job is to be prepared for that potential with a backup shot. Also the task of a PH on DG.

Hmmm...If I had a $1.00 for this insightful epiphany, I'd buy a beer(n).
 

Rule 303

AH fanatic
Joined
Oct 6, 2015
Messages
819
Reaction score
872
Location
Brisbane
Media
6
Hunted
Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe & Namibia
JMO, but every bullet can fail if given the wrong situation. Our job is to be prepared for that potential with a backup shot. Also the task of a PH on DG.

Hmmm...If I had a $1.00 for this insightful epiphany, I'd buy a beer(n).

jees you get cheap beer, or very small ones:D
 

MAdcox

Gold supporter
AH fanatic
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
755
Reaction score
1,276
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Media
89
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
DSC; DSCOK
Hunted
Oklahoma, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, South Africa (Limpopo, Northern Cape)
JMO, but every bullet can fail if given the wrong situation. Our job is to be prepared for that potential with a backup shot. Also the task of a PH on DG.

Hmmm...If I had a $1.00 for this insightful epiphany, I'd buy a beer(n).
My opinion as well Ridgewalker. Since getting into this discussion, I have read about failures on almost every kind of premium bullet out there. They seem to be very infrequent and at least in my situation, "fail" is subjective because it was a one shot kill.
BTW I'ld like to join you on the next $ beer night.
 

MAdcox

Gold supporter
AH fanatic
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
755
Reaction score
1,276
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Media
89
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
DSC; DSCOK
Hunted
Oklahoma, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, South Africa (Limpopo, Northern Cape)
2) Most appear to have hit bone with the side of the nose near the tip and push the hollow point closed.
Rule 303- I believe this is exactly what happened on my kudu shot. Bullet hit on the point of the shoulder, breaking the bone, and went through the heart to end up in the hide behind the offside ribcage. I think the bullet glanced off the edge of the bone and smeared the point, closing the hollow, and stopping the expansion. If it had hit the bone square on I bet it would have looked like the one I pulled out of the Wildebeest.
 

Royal27

AH ambassador
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
9,485
Reaction score
13,509
Media
109
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
6
Member of
DSC, NRA, SCI
Hunted
USA - TX, CO, GA, ID. Africa - Zimbabwe, Zambia, and South Africa (Limpopo and EC)
.458 North Fork flat point solid recovered from my elephant. Bullet was loaded at 2250 fps.

The issue is I don't know which shot it was, although I personally lean towards the brain shot. It was recovered in the base of the neck.

  1. Frontal brain shot, which would mean nothing really hard was hit and therefore very disappointing performance. This shot was 15m or less.
  2. Shot on left hip, which would mean it went the entire length of the body before lodging in neck. I do think this was possible especially with the angle. This shot would have been at 50m or so.
The tracker told me the bullet was facing towards the back of the elephant when found, supporting tthe brain shot possibility I think, if correct.

This was the only bullet recovered. The initial shot was a pass through and the others were not recovered.

IMG-20170920-WA0024.jpeg


IMG-20170920-WA0022.jpeg
 

Ridgewalker

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
6,938
Reaction score
8,347
Location
Colorado
Media
231
Hunting reports
Africa
3
USA/Canada
4
Hunted
South Africa: Limpopo, Northwest; USA: Ak, Mt, Wy, Co, Ne, Ks, Nv, NM, Tx
Looks like it hit a heavy bone with a glancing trajectory whatever direction. If it was the pelvic, it probably rotated 180 and fished it’s path.
Could the brain shot have been a glancing hit?

Interesting!
 

Royal27

AH ambassador
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
9,485
Reaction score
13,509
Media
109
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
6
Member of
DSC, NRA, SCI
Hunted
USA - TX, CO, GA, ID. Africa - Zimbabwe, Zambia, and South Africa (Limpopo and EC)
Looks like it hit a heavy bone with a glancing trajectory whatever direction. If it was the pelvic, it probably rotated 180 and fished it’s path.
Could the brain shot have been a glancing hit?

Interesting!

The "hip and flip" is certainly a possibility. That's a heck of a lot of penetration too. Hard to see on the pic, but there is distortion at the back end of the bullet too. Like would have happened if the bullet spun.

Brain shot wasn't glancing at all. Elephant looking straight at me and dead on. I hit just right of center.

I keep going back and forth on what I think happened....
 

Forum statistics

Threads
37,812
Messages
723,049
Members
67,599
Latest member
FabianLeac
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

AGNK wrote on geoff rath's profile.
G’day Geoff,
Mate, I noticed you purchased a rifle from overseas.... can you tell me the procedure of importing a rifle to Australia from a private seller?
Cheers
AGNK
I did a little housekeeping in my shop and found some .500 Jeffery ammo that I no longer need. Superior Ammunition and Hendershots loaded them, along with AHR (American Hunting Rifles). Several Woodleigh/A-Square solids along with lead bullets in both 535g and 600g. Message me for any details.

IMG_8092.jpg
IMG_8091.jpg
IMG_8090.jpg
IMG_8094.jpg
pam308 wrote on TOBY458's profile.
Just saw your listing for a winchester 70 458. Is it still for sale? I want it!!! pam308
flatwater bill wrote on john stroud's profile.
Leopard Legend....................Hi John.............I see that you have not visited AH in awhile. Hope all is well. I am looking for a hunt in Namibia..............would like to ask a few questions about your hunt.............all the best..............................Bill
Cervus elaphus wrote on Bob Nelson 35Whelen's profile.
Hi Bob, how's things going in Wyong?. Down your way a couple of years back but haven't been in NSW since Ebor for the fishing. just getting over some nasty storms up here in Qld, seeing the sun for the first time in a few days. I'm going to NZ in the spring and hope to clean up a few buns while there and perhaps shake the spiders out of my old .303LE (currently owned by my BIL). Cheers Brian
 
Top