Anything but a .308

[CBH Australia]

Wow, you’re being very generous with your data there.
In the 1950s, it was replaced by the NATO .308.
England flooded its empire with this rimmed cartridge, so it was cheap and readily available.
Today, in terms of performance, it’s at the very bottom of the 7x57 range.
It never became popular as a hunting cartridge, even though every farmer in the Cape Province might well have had one in their cupboard.

I prefer short rifle barrels, so many high-performance calibers are out of the question, and doing so effectively “neuters” them. Some calibers simply can’t handle it, even though you can load the same powder and bullet weight into a .30-06 as into a .308. The internal ballistics of the .308 have their advantages here.
By the way, heavy bullets in a .30-caliber round are best effective at short ranges—about 80 meters. Medium-weight bullets are much better suited as an all-around load.

Foxi

I think Canadian Mounties were using the .303 British much longer than others.
It was replaced with a .308 design by Tikka and made by Colt under a license condition of the tender process.

This was in the last 10 years and I guess it was still a service rifle or “in service “

 

[CBH Australia]

Just noticed you edited my post so the artic rangers are nothing but drunken Inuits the u.s. single handedly won ww2 and the .303 is only for the poor if I’m reading your edits correctly?

Tell me where were your Austrian ancestors while the Canadians were storming the beaches at Juno or liberating the Netherlands?
There is hardly a game animal on earth that hasn’t been laid low by a .303 to include elephants. In my time buying and selling at gunshows I’ve probably seen 500 .303s bought and sold for every 7x57 I’ve seen I can still walk into any hardware store and buy .303 shells where as I’d have to go to a specialty gun shot to find 7x57. From my conversations with Bob Nelson it sounds as though the .303 was just as common in Australia as in Canada which makes total sense given that we are both commonwealth countries.

My bit about the .303 replacement didn’t load last night but it should show now.

As you and Bob discussed the Lee Enfield . 303 was common here. It was the Australian service rifle.

There were tons of them released as surplus to the public making them widely used for hunting and pest control with many rebarelled to other chamberings as well.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

If you’ve never meet anyone who hunts with a .303 you haven’t spent much time in Canada

Or Australia or New Zealand or any of the old commonwealth countries….basically half the world
Gumpy

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Or Australia or New Zealand or any of the old commonwealth countries….basically half the world
Gumpy

I haven't been to Australia, but I do hunt a lot in the US, and have hunted in Canada and Zimbabwe. Although hundreds of thousands of .303s have floated around the US and shooters do buy them as they're cheap and available and people play with them, I've never seen one in the hands of a serious hunter. In Zim I have seen a few in houses again because they are cheap and available in a country where you can't exactly run over to the corner sporting goods store to.buy a Model 70, but I can't say they are the preferred weapon of hunters. In Canada, I've never seen one. It seems to.me that those waving the ".303 forever" flag are a lot like the American hunters that swear the .30-30 is the best deer cartridge ever created and real rifles have leavers. The rest of us tend to think of them as "old - school" or "quaint." It was probably a great round when the .30-40 Krag was Americas military cartridge.

 

[Rule 303]

I haven't been to Australia, but I do hunt a lot in the US, and have hunted in Canada and Zimbabwe. Although hundreds of thousands of .303s have floated around the US and shooters do buy them as they're cheap and available and people play with them, I've never seen one in the hands of a serious hunter. In Zim I have seen a few in houses again because they are cheap and available in a country where you can't exactly run over to the corner sporting goods store to.buy a Model 70, but I can't say they are the preferred weapon of hunters. In Canada, I've never seen one. It seems to.me that those waving the ".303 forever" flag are a lot like the American hunters that swear the .30-30 is the best deer cartridge ever created and real rifles have leavers. The rest of us tend to think of them as "old - school" or "quaint." It was probably a great round when the .30-40 Krag was Americas military

There is an old truism. The Americans went to war with a Target Rifle, the Germans went to war with a Sporting Rifle, the British went to war with a Battle Rifle.

Some Lee Enfield 303 were very accurate but the bulk were ho hum as far as sporting accuracy goes, ( had to make a 5 shot 4" group at 100 yards. Most were better than this. this along with the rimmed designed are the main reason the 303 fell out of favour. Now as far as reliability goes the Lee Enfield 303 is extremely hard to beat and no Model 70 can match that. Nothing wrong with a good lever or pump action. Going after pigs in the lignum the light, short handy M94 in 30-30 or 44-40, 44 mag is very hard to beat. mates with their longer bolt actions use to envy me. If it wasn't the M94 it was a No5 303 Jungle Carbine. Which Australian Army scouts -that is scouts for an infantry section- used the No5 in Malaya and the early stages of Vietnam. harder hitting and longer ranged than the 9mm sub-machine guns.

What CBH is talking about, the Canadian Rangers. I have heard from several of them that there was nothing wrong with the No4 303's and plenty in reserve stock, contrary to claims made. Their view is this was done so some could make money out of the deal. One thing I will say about the Canadian Rangers Tikka is they got it right and pissed off the shitty single stack magazine and forced them to make it with a double stack mag but no charger clip loading unfortunately.

Since we lost our semi autos the 303 made a small comeback for pig shooting. When bombing up a mob of pigs 3 to 5 rounds don't go far. 303's, ten shot mag, charger clip loading and about the fastest bolt action to cycle.....yeah quaint.

It gets back to horses for courses.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I haven't been to Australia, but I do hunt a lot in the US, and have hunted in Canada and Zimbabwe. Although hundreds of thousands of .303s have floated around the US and shooters do buy them as they're cheap and available and people play with them, I've never seen one in the hands of a serious hunter. In Zim I have seen a few in houses again because they are cheap and available in a country where you can't exactly run over to the corner sporting goods store to.buy a Model 70, but I can't say they are the preferred weapon of hunters. In Canada, I've never seen one. It seems to.me that those waving the ".303 forever" flag are a lot like the American hunters that swear the .30-30 is the best deer cartridge ever created and real rifles have leavers. The rest of us tend to think of them as "old - school" or "quaint." It was probably a great round when the .30-40 Krag was Americas military cartridge.

With all due respect your making the wrong comparison, try thinking of the 303 as Canadas 03 Springfield. Two generations of men carried them into battle from all corners of the commonwealth. They then came home and sporterized them and hunted with them.

 

[CBH Australia]

One thing I will say about the Canadian Rangers Tikka is they got it right and pissed off the shitty single stack magazine and forced them to make it with a double stack mag but no charger clip

It gets back to horses for courses.

I think the Canadian Mounty service rifle is based on the CTR model Tikka platform. They have the Colour laminate stock and open sights

These have a 10 round proprietary magazine that work well but you need the genuine part they are not aftermarket or aics compatible.

These magazines work well but they are an expensive spare parts or accessories.

The Tikka action design won’t allow for a stripper clip to breach load they have a reasonably small ejection port with no top access.

My Tikka CTR in 7mm-08 proved great on pigs and I have a .308 as well because I like the platform with a slick bolt and 10 round mag that functions well when quick follow up is required.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

My bit about the .303 replacement didn’t load last night but it should show now.

As you and Bob discussed the Lee Enfield . 303 was common here. It was the Australian service rifle.

There were tons of them released as surplus to the public making them widely used for hunting and pest control with many rebarelled to other chamberings as well.

They were also the cadets training rifles and lots of cadets bought surplus rifles to hunt with as they were familiar with them. They often progressed to newer firearms later, but still used the 303 as a back up
Gumpy

 

[Rule 303]

I think the Canadian Mounty service rifle is based on the CTR model Tikka platform. They have the Colour laminate stock and open sights

These have a 10 round proprietary magazine that work well but you need the genuine part they are not aftermarket or aics compatible.

These magazines work well but they are an expensive spare parts or accessories.

The Tikka action design won’t allow for a stripper clip to breach load they have a reasonably small ejection port with no top access.

My Tikka CTR in 7mm-08 proved great on pigs and I have a .308 as well because I like the platform with a slick bolt and 10 round mag that functions well when quick follow up is required.

OK. I was talking about the Canadian Rangers not the Mounties. A mate has one, I will have to have a look at his magazine set up. Tikkas are a great rifle with one big draw back in my eyes and that is the single stack mag. I have one in 8X57 only because I non of the other makes with a double stack had one or brought one into Aust in 6 months of waiting, other than a surplus M98.

 

[CBH Australia]

OK. I was talking about the Canadian Rangers not the Mounties. A mate has one, I will have to have a look at his magazine set up. Tikkas are a great rifle with one big draw back in my eyes and that is the single stack mag. I have one in 8X57 only because I non of the other makes with a double stack had one or brought one into Aust in 6 months of waiting, other than a surplus M98.

Sorry, they called Rangers. They did carry a Mark 4 .303.

The new rifle is a Colt C19, the civilian version is a Tikka Arctic if you can come at the 5k price tag.

 

[Foxi]

There is an old truism. The Americans went to war with a Target Rifle, the Germans went to war with a Sporting Rifle, the British went to war with a Battle Rifle.

You have a great sense of humor. I like you.
A Mauser 98 system was a sporting rifle—you can’t be serious, can you? Who goes around spouting such “wisdom”?
The Mauser 98 system is still the most reliable bolt-action rifle today, and not just in Africa.
I wonder why?

 

[Rule 303]

View attachment 775915
You have a great sense of humor. I like you.
A Mauser 98 system was a sporting rifle—you can’t be serious, can you? Who goes around spouting such “wisdom”?
The Mauser 98 system is still the most reliable bolt-action rifle today, and not just in Africa.
I wonder why?
View attachment 775916

That is a saying that came out of WW1 and No the M98 is NOT the most reliable Bolt Action rifle. The SMLE and Mosin Nagant are the more reliable, proven many times over. The P14 and M17 although similar to the M98 in having 2 front locking lugs are more reliable and were designed to be, again proven.
Foxi you really do need educating on rifle history and I am no expert compared to a lot of others.

 

[DG870]

Prior to WW1 the 303 was being considered for replacement. England was experimenting with the 276 Enfield prior to WW1 but with war on the horizon they dropped the project. They had a contract with Remington to develop the rifle and cartridge that was the 1913 Enfield in 276 Enfield (a semi rimmed 7mm). The start of WW1 stopped this but the rifle was rechambered to create the Pattern 14 Enfield in .303 and was a lend/lease item. Then the United States need for more rifles led to the 1917 in 30-06.

US experience with the 30-40 Krag vs the 93 Mauser in 7x57 in the Philippines led the US military to drop the 30-40 Krag and develop the 30-06 and the 1903 Springfield. I’ve read that the British experience was similar in the Boer wars with the 303 vs the 7x57. The 303 is a ok hunting rifle within its limitations. It hits hard but isn’t very fast and accuracy is hit and miss. You seldom see them in the Midwest United States and I never see factory ammo on the shelf. It’s not surprising that in countries that used the 303 that surplus rifles and ammo are common, just like the 30-06 military rifles were sporterized and used for hunting in the US in the 50 and 60. The gun magazines at the time had articles on how to sporterize your Mauser or Springfield into a hunting rifle. My first deer rifle was a 303 British in a hacksaw sporterized Lee Enfield that I bought from my cousin for $50.00 in 1970.

This is getting far off of the OP - in my humble opinion a rifle caliber that meets the intent of the OP should have: Adequate power for the largest critter on his list; Be of a common cartridge that he can find on the shelf in the locations where he plans to hunt; Be in a quality rifle of portable weight (7-8 lbs scoped loaded and ready to hunt). Lots of room for many cartridges to fit this criteria, but a 30-06 with a quality 180 grain bullet fits here very well. It’s not new whizbamg short fat cartridge that will get Ooo’s and Awaa’s in hunting camp - it just will work.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

View attachment 775915
You have a great sense of humor. I like you.
A Mauser 98 system was a sporting rifle—you can’t be serious, can you? Who goes around spouting such “wisdom”?
The Mauser 98 system is still the most reliable bolt-action rifle today, and not just in Africa.
I wonder why?
View attachment 775916

Remind me again how many world wars have your people lost while armed with the “superior” battle rifle the Mauser?

 

[DaleGribble82]

How did this become a .303 conversation?

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

How did this become a .303 conversation?

Op was looking for suggestions other than .308 i suggested the 303 had been in service 112 years foxi disagreed with me and one thing lead to another

 

[DieJager]

Remind me again how many world wars have your people lost while armed with the “superior” battle rifle the Mauser?

That is a cheap shot. And nothing to do with the quality of the rifle. It is not a secret that Germany produced a lot of weapons that were ahead of its time. Your argument is that the Enfield is the superior rifle to the Mauser? Ok, do debate that. Who won what war has nothing to do with.


I do not understand the animosity in your posts. And it seems a lot of members engage in this manner these days. Not a personal attack against you but my observation.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

That is a cheap shot. And nothing to do with the quality of the rifle. It is not a secret that Germany produced a lot of weapons that were ahead of its time. Your argument is that the Enfield is the superior rifle to the Mauser? Ok, do debate that. Who won what war has nothing to do with.


I do not understand the animosity in your posts. And it seems a lot of members engage in this manner these days. Not a personal attack against you but my observation.

Perhaps it could stem from his earlier editing of one of my posts where he called the Canadian rangers little more than drunken Inuits , was dismissive of any of Britains colonies contribution to the victory and insinuated only those who couldn’t afford better would use a .303? Foxi started this whole tangent off by basically calling me a liar when I claimed the .303 was in service 112 years.

 

[CBH Australia]

How did this become a .303 conversation?

In part we digress and in part it’s an option to be a hunting rifle for n anything other than a .308.
It could be one option to have a decent hunting rifle rifle chambered in .303 with good loads it could one answer to the question

 

[Doug Hamilton]

That is a saying that came out of WW1 and No the M98 is NOT the most reliable Bolt Action rifle. The SMLE and Mosin Nagant are the more reliable, proven many times over. The P14 and M17 although similar to the M98 in having 2 front locking lugs are more reliable and were designed to be, again proven.
Foxi you really do need educating on rifle history and I am no expert compared to a lot of others.

And that kids, is why the SMLE and Mosin Nagant have long been the preferred actions to chamber the large African magnum cartridges for dangerous game. Oh, wait...that's not right... Well at least they've won accuracy completions against the Mauser or Springfield rifles. Er... No, that isn't right either. Well, damn.

The only one I've seen where someone tried to hunt with one in the US was when a friend of mine showed up with his .303 to hunt with me. Couldn't keep it on a 6" bull at a hundred yards. I ended up loaning him my spare rifle, an M 70 in .30-06. I think I'll stick with.my original thought that the .303s are only popular where they are easy to get and the cheapest rifle available.