Any of you stop a charge with a handgun?

[318AE]

Wrong. It would have been better for him to have had a green light Sabre. Not one of those POS blue ones made by Browning. A green one made by Winchester with controlled light feed. Even better still, a purple one made by Rigby.

Me, you and 48 other people here could have Ruger make a run of custom light sabers. They’d be pink, investment cast and have crappy wood though.

 

[dchum]

Exactly. I think this the forum with both a thread about why the 375 isn’t sufficient for dangerous game, and how a handgun is sufficient to stop a charge. Good times.

I think next time I go visit @JINKLE we all need to get together and debrief hahah!

We need em

 

[Doug Hamilton]

There are many people who hunt with handguns as their primary weapon and walk with it in their hand. Plenty of videos online of hunters who are approaching a kill or gut pile with their handguns in their hand.

Many people when they are out in the woods hunting or hiking when they hear branches cracking or sense something is around will have their handgun in their hand as a precaution, and if they're smart it's attached to a lanyard.

A bolt-action rifle is not always better than a handgun. Not during a charge from a Leopard as the video below shows he couldn't work the bolt fast enough. If he had a powerful revolver in either 454 Casull, 480 Ruger, 475 L, 500 S&W/JRH or 500 L he could have had better chances of stopping it before it jumped on him and wrapped him up. He couldn't hit the Leopard from 30 yards away or within 20 feet with his rifle as it charged him.

Countless videos of hunters fumbling with the bolt-action not being able to operate it during a charge...

Okay. A leopard being smaller and lighter than any other dangerous big game, might be killed with a handgun if he got to you. That is a really.big.might, but I could see it as possible. Stopping the charge before he got to you? The odds of winning a giant lottery is probably better.

 

[dchum]

Okay. A leopard being smaller and lighter than any other dangerous big game, might be killed with a handgun if he got to you. That is a really.big.might, but I could see it as possible. Stopping the charge before he got to you? The odds of winning a giant lottery is probably better.

Bingo! Here a PH steps in with his large revolver. The Cat got all over him! Ouch

Looks like a scary hunt here, cat got bayed into a rock outcrop

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Bingo! Here a PH steps in with his large revolver. The Cat got all over him! Ouch

Looks like a scary hunt here, cat got bayed into a rock outcrop

He still shot it while he was on the ground @ 1:03. He couldn't have done that with a bolt-action rifle that requires both hands to operate while he was rolling around on the ground...

That video above is why I'd want a revolver on me as a "sidearm/backup" not as my primary weapon.

 

[camperx]

My buddy pulled a Bowie knife on some crackhead that pulled a steak knife on him. He was delivering a pizza, crackhead walks up, says “gimme your money” and brandishes a steak knife, and my buddy goes “really man?” Crack snarls “gimme your money!” And my buddy calmly pulls out a fucking Crocodile Dundee Benchmade Bowie knife and says “REALLY MAN?”. Apparently Crack said something like “Nevermind” and walked off.

 

[Red Leg]

He still shot it while he was on the ground @ 1:03. He couldn't have done that with a bolt-action rifle that requires both hands to operate while he was rolling around on the ground...

That video above is why I'd want a revolver on me as a "sidearm/backup" not as my primary weapon.

He could and should have finished it with an adequate rifle a dozen times prior.

Ands you will not have one in Africa.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

He could and should have finished it with an adequate rifle a dozen times prior.

Ands you will not have one in Africa.

"Coulda, shoulda" doesn't cut it. Can't go back in time once that animal charges. It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback.

Many people hunt in Africa with revolvers. On this own forum, members here have with photos...

A

Thread 'Recommendations for South Africa Handgun Hunt?'

Apr 18, 2024

Wasn't sure where to post this question so decided to put it here.

For those of you who have hunted in South Africa with handguns, do you have any recommendations for an outfitter that caters to Spot/Stalk hunting (Plains Game) with handguns? Seems like a lot of top quality outfitters out there so hard to distinguish those who routinely guide handgunners and those that may only do so occasionally.

No interest in hunting from a blind; not the safari experience I am looking for.

Appreciate your feedback.

Thanks
Mat

• Ag111
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Handguns

• 

 

[Doug Hamilton]

"Coulda, shoulda" doesn't cut it. Can't go back in time once that animal charges. It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback.

Many people hunt in Africa with revolvers. On this own forum, members here have with photos...

A

Thread 'Recommendations for South Africa Handgun Hunt?'

Apr 18, 2024

Wasn't sure where to post this question so decided to put it here.

For those of you who have hunted in South Africa with handguns, do you have any recommendations for an outfitter that caters to Spot/Stalk hunting (Plains Game) with handguns? Seems like a lot of top quality outfitters out there so hard to distinguish those who routinely guide handgunners and those that may only do so occasionally.

No interest in hunting from a blind; not the safari experience I am looking for.

Appreciate your feedback.

Thanks
Mat

• Ag111
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Handguns

• 

Once an animal charges, you stand a much better chance of surviving with one well aimed shot from a rifle than you would by spraying several shots with a revolver. Otherwise the PH's would carry them.

BTW, I think you can still csrry.one in Zimbabwe. I took one in 1983. It was fine but the Port Authority cops in New York tried to throw me in jail when I came back into the US. I showed them the paper work from US Customs, and permits from S.A. and Zim. There answer was thank there was a mandatory one year jail sentence for bringing a handgun into New York City. I thought about it and pointed out to them that I didn't have the gun. They did. So I told them that they could just hold on to my gun case while I made the flight arrangement to California, then we could all walk across the aisle and give it to the nice lady at the counter, and I would not ever have had possession of the handgun in their city. They looked disappointed when they had to admit that it could work that way. So if you take a handgun, don't travel through New Yawk!

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Once an animal charges, you stand a much better chance of surviving with one well aimed shot from a rifle than you would by spraying several shots with a revolver. Otherwise the PH's would carry them.

BTW, I think you can still csrry.one in Zimbabwe. I took one in 1983. It was fine but the Port Authority cops in New York tried to throw me in jail when I came back into the US. I showed them the paper work from US Customs, and permits from S.A. and Zim. There answer was thank there was a mandatory one year jail sentence for bringing a handgun into New York City. I thought about it and pointed out to them that I didn't have the gun. They did. So I told them that they could just hold on to my gun case while I made the flight arrangement to California, then we could all walk across the aisle and give it to the nice lady at the counter, and I would not ever have had possession of the handgun in their city. They looked disappointed when they had to admit that it could work that way. So if you take a handgun, don't travel through New Yawk!

Those are some bad odds that are not in your favor, one hail Mary shot, and if that shot misses, there's a good chance the animal is on your before you can get off the second shot especially with a bolt-action. I want 5 rounds of 400gr Cutting Edge monolithic solid from a S&W 500 double-action revolver.

I hope people are not getting the wrong impression, I never said I wanted to use a handgun as my primary #1 weapon for the first shot. Only as a sidearm/backup. A bolt-action for me is a no go when trying to stop a charge head-on.

I agree, with the risks of traveling through blue states/cities with out of state firearms.

 

[Scott CWO]

I personally would want a sidearm on me just in case my rifle were to malfunction or ran out of ammo and the animal charges before I could reload in time. Drop the rifle and pull out a revolver chambered in 500 S&W, or 500 Linebaugh. It might not stop it in it's tracks but it could possibly hurt it enough...

I think this bullet below would hurt a buffalo just enough to give me a better chance to live...

500 S&W Magnum 700gr. Wide Flat Nose Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Underwood Ammo™ Supersonic Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now .500 S&W Magnum Lead ammo with Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast.

underwoodammo.com

In post #12 on the first page of this thread, Lynn Thompson killed a charging water buffalo with a 454 Casull revolver.

The 500 JRH has taken cape buffalo in Africa too...

Hunting Gallery — JRH Advanced Gunsmithing

www.jrhadvancedgunsmithing.com

Not a charge but I witnessed my buddy, Jim, shoot this buffalo in the heart in TZ with his .500 S&W at 50 yards. It didn’t go 20 yards.

 

[Red Leg]

"Coulda, shoulda" doesn't cut it. Can't go back in time once that animal charges. It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback.

Many people hunt in Africa with revolvers. On this own forum, members here have with photos...

A

Thread 'Recommendations for South Africa Handgun Hunt?'

Apr 18, 2024

Wasn't sure where to post this question so decided to put it here.

For those of you who have hunted in South Africa with handguns, do you have any recommendations for an outfitter that caters to Spot/Stalk hunting (Plains Game) with handguns? Seems like a lot of top quality outfitters out there so hard to distinguish those who routinely guide handgunners and those that may only do so occasionally.

No interest in hunting from a blind; not the safari experience I am looking for.

Appreciate your feedback.

Thanks
Mat

• Ag111
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Handguns

• 

I never said you couldn’t hunt with one as your primary weapon. Feel free if that is your thing. But you won’t have your trusty peacemaker on your hip as your charge stopper on a rifle hunt. Coulda shoulda absolutely applies to the idiot houndsman approaching that cat with an inadequate firearm. Lucky someone didn’t catch a bullet in the melee.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

I never said you couldn’t hunt with one as your primary weapon. Feel free if that is your thing. But you won’t have your trusty peacemaker on your hip as your charge stopper on a rifle hunt. Coulda shoulda absolutely applies to the idiot houndsman approaching that cat with an inadequate firearm. Lucky someone didn’t catch a bullet in the melee.

According to who? Not you. You have no say and you're not in control. I've talked to plenty of people who had their trusty peacemaker on them while they were in pursuit of a wounded buffalo, lion or leopard.

You don't get to decide who has what on them and who doesn't and you never will and that frustrates you so much.

A trusty peacemaker (454 Casull) stopped a charging water buffalo in Australia, it will easily stop a cat very quickly...

Scott CWO's friend Jim as he posted above. As he said, it didn't go 20 yards...

 

[WAB]

A fellow in our town in AK was out for a walk and was charged by a rather large brown bear. He stopped it with his .454 Cassul. I’m certain he would have preferred something larger.

On a side note, I was flying up to Anchorage on a commercial flight one morning for meetings. A friend was on the same flight connecting to a flight to the lower 48. He leaned forward and I saw the butt of his .44 under his jacket. He had been out for a walk and forgot to take it off! He put it in my briefcase and I carried it to meetings all day so that he could get through security to his flights. I’m not sure how folks in the meetings would have felt if they had known!

 

[Red Leg]

According to who? Not you. You have no say and you're not in control. I've talked to plenty of people who had their trusty peacemaker on them while they were in pursuit of a wounded buffalo, lion or leopard.

You don't get to decide who has what on them and who doesn't and you never will and that frustrates you so much.

A trusty peacemaker (454 Casull) stopped a charging water buffalo in Australia, it will easily stop a cat very quickly...

Scott CWO's friend Jim as he posted above. As he said, it didn't go 20 yards...
View attachment 719068

For the umpteenth time, yes, it is possible to bring a handgun (or hand rifle as John Wooters would call one such as above) as a primary hunting firearm. And no, I don't control anything. I admit that I am a little amused by those who have never been on that continent who have it all figured out. But as you say, you have familiarity with "plenty" of hunters who have been to Africa who carried a backup handgun. That is awesome, because other than an occasional PH in the RSA, I know of none who have brought a handgun as a secondary carry firearm for stopping charging big hairy beast or personal protection of any form. I should get around more. In some countries, one could certainly obtain permission for a firearm like the above in addition to a rifle, but handguns like that one do not lend themselves to casual wear while also carrying a rifle.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I’ve watched this thread meander around using large handguns or hand cannons as stopping weapons and tried to just smile at it. Yes, a charge of a dangerous game animal may have or probably once or twice was stopped by a handgun. But if one thinks this is common, they are dreaming.

One can hunt African Dangerous Game with a handgun but they will have a professional hunter (PH) backing them up with a large caliber, powerful rifle. African animals from small to large are hard to kill. Perhaps because they evolved with predators such as large cats and crocodiles. Anyway, how many threads have we on AH discussed the effectiveness of a .375, 9.3 or larger caliber rifles in slaying cape buffalo? Add to that threads on shot placement, the best bullets be they solids or expanding, and so on. Would any wise hunter consider a handgun, even a .500 S&W or similar a “stopping weapon”? That is to stop the charge of dangerous intent on killing them.

There was recently a thread on Mark Sullivan’s practice of stopping charging buffalos and hippos at very close range to him. I believe he uses a .577 Nitro Heym double rifle for such work. Would even Mark Sullivan whose’ skill shooting point blank at charging game is legendary use a handgun for the same? Would he even use a 450/400 double to stop charges up close and personal to him? I don’t know for sure but I think no because any charging 2000 or more pound wounded animal does not want to die. Rather they want the subject of the charge to die!

When I have wild ideas I like to research those to learn if others may have previously attempted them. For dangerous game rifles, cartridges, and hunting I have a small but well-read library.

I think the only mention of using a handgun was in Capstick against a lion using him as a mattress. I loved reading Death in the Long Grass as most have but, Capstick is reputed to use a very broad poetic license. Even if that tale is 100% accurate, lions are soft compared to buffalo, hippo, and elephant. Probably the same is true of rhinos but I haven’t that knowledge.

Reviewing similar situations against human predators, there are accounts of policemen hitting perpetrators many times with 9mm, .40 S&W and other duty handguns that failed to kill immediately. Years ago I read of criminals high on PCP, angel dust, that were very hard to stop even with multiple handgun bullets. If one thinks a lion is soft compared to a buffalo, a human is many times softer than a lion. At times, even humans can absorb a lot of lead. Within arm’s length, if those humans have a knife, woe be the policeman or armed citizen. Replace the PCP-crazed human with African dangerous game and, well I hope that brave human with a hand cannon has a good will.

I can’t find the quote online but I do remember LtCol Jeff Cooper, founder of Gun Site Ranch and mentor of many of today’s personal defense experts writing, “The purpose of a handgun is to allow one to fight their way to a rifle or shotgun.” Here are a few more of Jeff Cooper’s quotes that I found online;

"Beware the man with one gun. He can probably use it." ~ Jeff Cooper
"The rifle is the queen of weapons and its effective use is one of the greatest satisfactions available to man." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons." ~ Jeff Cooper

Notice LtCol Cooper did not say handgun? The rifle is king for human defense.

Finally, these links are to very short videos of men with rifles stopping charging dangerous game;

Charging Lion

Other videos

Mark Sullivan

Buzz Charlton - Elephant

To paraphrase Skeeter Skelton, Handgun vs Rifle as a Stopping Weapon,
I'll take a rifle, you can take your chances!

 

[Carnivore hunter]

For the umpteenth time, yes, it is possible to bring a handgun (or hand rifle as John Wooters would call one such as above) as a primary hunting firearm. And no, I don't control anything. I admit that I am a little amused by those who have never been on that continent who have it all figured out. But as you say, you have familiarity with "plenty" of hunters who have been to Africa who carried a backup handgun. That is awesome, because other than an occasional PH in the RSA, I know of none who have brought a handgun as a secondary carry firearm for stopping charging big hairy beast or personal protection of any form. I should get around more. In some countries, one could certainly obtain permission for a firearm like the above in addition to a rifle, but handguns like that one do not lend themselves to casual wear while also carrying a rifle.

An honest sincere question here, why would you not want a backup sidearm on you just in case your primary rifle malfunctions? Is it due to weight or you just think handguns regardless of how powerful they are, are just useless?

I think it's dangerous and irresponsible to not have a backup sidearm on you when dealing with dangerous game. I agree, the rifle is the #1 primary weapon to be used first but, I've seen many videos and talked to many people who had problems with their rifle and they could not maneuver it quick enough. Also, not being able to operate the bolt-action quick enough. If the rifle has some malfunction, drop it quick, pull the revolver out and shoot.

For me personally, I'd like to know there is a powerful revolver on me in a chest/shoulder holster just in case something happens to my rifle. I am NOT and have not advocated for using the handgun as the #1 primary first option, you keep insinuating I am but, I'm am not.

Not all S&W 500's have 8" inch barrels. Some have the 4" inch. Also, the Magnum Research BFR revolvers are lighter than S&W X-frames. Some people have converted the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan into a 500 JRH. There are some packable hand cannons out there that are holstered easily in chest and shoulder holsters.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

I’ve watched this thread meander around using large handguns or hand cannons as stopping weapons and tried to just smile at it. Yes, a charge of a dangerous game animal may have or probably once or twice was stopped by a handgun. But if one thinks this is common, they are dreaming.

Again, I never said or encouraged anyone including myself to use a handgun as their #1 primary first option in stopping a charge, only as a backup in case the rifle malfunctions in some way.

I was asking to see if anyone had stopped a charge with one. The video above of Lynn Thompson stopping a charge from a water buffalo with a 454 Casull shows it can be done in an emergency situation and proves a powerful revolver can be effective if the rifle is compromised.

 

[Red Leg]

Again, I never said or encouraged anyone including myself to use a handgun as their #1 primary first option in stopping a charge, only as a backup in case the rifle malfunctions in some way.

I was asking to see if anyone had stopped a charge with one. The video above of Lynn Thompson stopping a charge from a water buffalo with a 454 Casull shows it can be done in an emergency situation and proves a powerful revolver can be effective if the rifle is compromised.

And the leopard video illustrates just how irresponsible it is to count on one. That could just as easily have been the client that the cat jumped. I am genuinely curious who all those "plenty of" people were that you cited who carried a backup handgun in any nation in Africa.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

And the leopard video illustrates just how irresponsible it is to count on one. That could just as easily have been the client that the cat jumped. I am genuinely curious who all those "plenty of" people were who carried a backup handgun in any nation in Africa.

That was anecdotal. The video below is anecdotal too and also shows how irresponsible it is to try to maneuver around a large bolt-action rifle when a leopard is charging. At least the hunter with the handgun shot the leopard with his own gun and held onto the handgun proving a handgun is superior when you're on the ground...