Accuracy and Speed with a Big Bore Double

[SStomcat]

1/4” sounds so insignificant but it feels noticeable if not substantial in hand when loading one then the other back to back. I don’t have the experienced timed yet to draw conclusions, but have to admit one of the things I like about the 500 is how easily the 3” chubsters are to grab and almost effortlessly load in comparison to the 470. Expect the same holds true for my 450, but I just love that rifle and cartridge so much, my brain just can’t compute through my positional bias.

Exciting thoughts. I have never speed-loaded or reloaded a 500 NE in a stress-like situation, but I have fired about a dozen rounds. Both cartridges have the same case head diameter, I believe. I have heard and felt that, for me, it seems easier to drop the 470 in the barrels due to the tapered shoulders than the 500. It seems and sounds more melodious to me...just my 2 cents.

 

[Nhoro]

I have helped out with the PH exams and we used a charging lion machine. It uses a car starter motor with a chain sprocket approx 8 inch diameter on to a shift with a 3 inch sprocket. Then there is a 12 pulley on the shift that reels in the rope. All is housed in a steel box. It pulls a sled of light steel tube with plastic pipe target holder. Manages about 1/2 lion speed and 2/3 buffalo.
The bendix on the starter motor allows it to stop pulling as soon as you release the button

 

[Foxi]

The assembly, i.e., the soldering of the barrels, is designed in such a way that the gunsmith recommends firing the second shot after 4-6 seconds.
Here, I fired the first shot right too early, but then it was fine.
My Ferlach Sodia Double in .458 WM, 500gn Degol bullets.50 meters
4-6 shots in quick succession, the weapon holds up well

 

[SStomcat]

The assembly, i.e., the soldering of the barrels, is designed in such a way that the gunsmith recommends firing the second shot after 4-6 seconds.

How does this work in the case of a real charge, where a second may mean life and death

 

[Foxi]

How does this work in the case of a real charge, where a second may mean life and death

Life and death take place between 2 and 5 meters.
The time interval plays no role at this distance.

 

[SStomcat]

Life and death take place between 2 and 5 meters.
The time interval plays no role at this distance.

Understood, that's why a double-barreled rifle can make a huge difference over a bolt gun. I believe that's what the OP was alluding to.

 

[AZDAVE]

If you are willing to put in the effort and practice the shoot reload shoot process you can get very quick at it.

Go to a Cowboy action shoot and watch what some of the best guys can do with that process in a SxS shotgun. You will be surprised at just how quick it can be done.

 

[SStomcat]

Loading and unloading a 12+ lb big-bore double rifle is not remotely comparable to a shotgun. The weight, balance, short heavy barrels, stiff action, and massive cartridges make it a slower, more deliberate process.

Shotguns are built for convenience and repetition; big doubles are built for strength and regulation. They may look similar when opened, but the handling reality is worlds apart.

And that's just what this thread is about. Just my thoughts!

 

[Red Leg]

Whats that rifle

He uses both single shots and this double that are essentially custom builds by Herbert Scheiring. Interestingly, Scheiring prefers to not checker his creations but will do so if requested. https://www.jagdwaffen-scheiring.at/en/ They are considered to be very high quality firearms.

 

[AZDAVE]

@SStomcat understand your comment. I shoot both Big bore double rifle and shotguns.

My mention of cowboy action wasn't a direct comparison just a example of what can be done with practice on a specfic process. I should have pointed out that difference. Thank you for catching my oversight.

 

[Red Leg]

Loading and unloading a 12+ lb big-bore double rifle is not remotely comparable to a shotgun. The weight, balance, short heavy barrels, stiff action, and massive cartridges make it a slower, more deliberate process.

Shotguns are built for convenience and repetition; big doubles are built for strength and regulation. They may look similar when opened, but the handling reality is worlds apart.

And that's just what this thread is about. Just my thoughts!

I have been shooting double shotguns almost exclusively for the last fifty years or so and use exactly the same reloading technique with a double rifle. It is very fast. I will agree the weight issue offers a bit of a difference, but the stiff opening observation is in large measure a function of the shoddy fitting of the typical production double today - shotgun or rifle. Make it tight to open and the wear-in period will likely last longer than the typical buyer. That lack of hand fitting is also in evidence with the 3" fifty yard shot pair target with which such a rifle is typically shipped. Double rifles usually don't get fired enough - two or three hundred rounds - to loosen the initial tightness during the original ownership.

 

[farmer_john]

He uses both single shots and this double that are essentially custom builds by Herbert Scheiring. Interestingly, Scheiring prefers to not checker his creations but will do so if requested. https://www.jagdwaffen-scheiring.at/en/ They are considered to be very high quality firearms.

It looks very high quality. But I woud expect a prince to have only the best.
Ive always admired good quality single shot rifles.

 

[SStomcat]

@SStomcat understand your comment. I shoot both Big bore double rifle and shotguns.

My mention of cowboy action wasn't a direct comparison just a example of what can be done with practice on a specfic process. I should have pointed out that difference. Thank you for catching my oversight.

I may have misunderstood, but having used a British Paradox shotgun and a Belgian one that recoiled like crazy, I found them a lot easier to handle and maneuver. They were right around the 6-8-pound range and felt much more comfortable reloading quickly than my DB. I'm a novice, by the way.

 

[SStomcat]

I have been shooting double shotguns almost exclusively for the last fifty years or so and use exactly the same reloading technique with a double rifle. It is very fast. I will agree the weight issue offers a bit of a difference, but the stiff opening observation is in large measure a function of the shoddy fitting of the typical production double today - shotgun or rifle. Make it tight to open and the wear-in period will likely last longer than the typical buyer. That lack of hand fitting is also in evidence with the 3" fifty yard shot pair target with which such a rifle is typically shipped. Double rifles usually don't get fired enough - two or three hundred rounds - to loosen the initial tightness during the original ownership.

My earlier comment about a “stiff opening” was relative—measured against the shotguns I’ve handled, most of which were well-used. My K-Gun is new, after all. I wouldn’t call it difficult to break open, nor would I complain that it’s tight on the face; quite the opposite—that’s exactly how it should be. It’s a production rifle, not (to my knowledge) fully handmade or hand-fitted, but it is clearly high-quality, CNC-machined, and very well executed.

For perspective, the last Purdey .577 NE I handled was perhaps the stiffest of the few I’ve encountered—tight enough that I briefly considered involving my knee to persuade it open Not a criticism, just an observation. Some rifles inspire confidence, while others also encourage creative thinking.
.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

Summary Update:
Working with my double on two, reload, two drill with timer. Hats off to those that can execute that drill in a matter of seconds keeping rounds on paper. Very difficult to accomplish. Bringing reload rounds off the belt is working better for me rather than holding reloads in weak hand. I’m keeping shots on paper at 20 yards but light years away from smooth speed times. Double is House of Merkel 140AE 470. Action extremely stiff and locks up like a vault.