9.3x74r for buffalo?

[Andrew62]

Fully aware of all this, and I have read between the lines, hence coming here. The problem lies in the fact that listening to the sound advice from hundreds of other professionals say it’s fine, and still hundreds more say that a proper buffalo cartridge starts with 4 or 5. What I’m trying to say is that any PH or outfitter is only a sample of one.

Once you understand there are folks that hunt elk with .243's, and others who swear you need a 5000 Nitro Express to shoot squirrels, you soon figure out you have to use what works for you. Some here say a .375H&H is not enough gun for dangerous game, I've taken 15 buffalo and 3 elephant with my .375H&H, so when someone says you need a gun caliber that starts with a 4 to hunt dangerous game, I know better.

If it were me, I would opt for a .375H&H or larger, but also if I were on a hunt and the outfitter said 'hey, we have a leftover buffalo tag and a 9.3x74r gun you can use to hunt it', I'd go hunting.

 

[Levubu]

With Kevin Robertson‘s (The Perfect Shot) 9.3x62 hundreds of buffalo got killed, something in the region of 650 buffalo. This should answer your question. I‘ve hunted buffalo in Zimbabwe twice, with a 9.3x74R. The outfitters/PHs were happy with that.

 

[grand veneur]

An author wrote around 1900 that shooting heavy dangerous game with smaller calibers should be left to very experienced hunters. Beginners should rather use bigger calibers for this hunt.

 

[Major Bonkers]

I suggest that the way ahead is for you to buy a copy of 'Africa's Most Dangerous' by Kevin Robertson. There is a man who knows what he is talking about (and won Rigby's inaugural 'Dagga Boy' award). He makes various points that stick in my mind: that the buffalo is a pachyderm (literally: thick skinned); that every shot you fire (even in practice) is the equivalent of sending a bottle of Scotch down range; and that once you squeeze the trigger on a buffalo one of you is going to end up dead.

There is copious literature on the ability of the Cape buffalo to soak up punishment, including heart shots, and still hand out some righteous vengeance.

The unfortunate reality is that the 9.3x74R - I have a Chapuis double rifle in this calibre, and I prefer it to my H&H .375 - is underpowered for a buffalo. Mine is a lovely rifle, very accurate and low recoil: but it is only suitable for plains game. (Neither is a 9.5x57 M-S properly suitable.) Doing the rounds on WhatsApp three or four years ago - before Covid - was a video of two enthusiasts who went after a buffalo with a 30-06 - it's probably linked somewhere on this website. The expedition didn't end well and the video ends with some loud screaming. I imagine that one of them, if he wasn't killed, ends up in a wheelchair and/ or with a colostomy bag.

In my opinion - only - it is entirely possible to kill buffalo with a smaller calibre, but that requires either a wholly accurate brain or neck shot. If it is not an accurate shot, someone is going to have to follow it up, with the considerable risk to the trackers and PH (and, I hope, the person who took the original shot: I'd certainly consider it a bit cowardly to fluff the original shot and then bugger off back to base camp leaving others to clear up the mess). There is a moral aspect to this: if one of the trackers get injured on the follow-up, that's down to you.

Caveat: I have shot precisely one buffalo, with a .470. It soaked up 3 shots of mine, and various others from the hangers-on - .375, .416, and .450, not all of which connected. My experience left me with a healthy respect for the animal.

In answer to your question, I am afraid that I certainly think that a buffalo rifle begins with a .4. Why not start with a .404 Jeffery, which is a (comparatively) gentle round, and can be used on plains game as well? Avoid the .460 Weatherby (harsh recoil).

 

[375Fox]

A 9.3 is going to kill a buffalo, but if you are going to spend money to buy a new rifle I think 375 H&H is the practical choice because it’s legal for DG anywhere on the continent.

 

[375Fox]

I suggest that the way ahead is for you to buy a copy of 'Africa's Most Dangerous' by Kevin Robertson. There is a man who knows what he is talking about (and won Rigby's inaugural 'Dagga Boy' award). He makes various points that stick in my mind: that the buffalo is a pachyderm (literally: thick skinned); that every shot you fire (even in practice) is the equivalent of sending a bottle of Scotch down range; and that once you squeeze the trigger on a buffalo one of you is going to end up dead.

There is copious literature on the ability of the Cape buffalo to soak up punishment, including heart shots, and still hand out some righteous vengeance.

The unfortunate reality is that the 9.3x74R - I have a Chapuis double rifle in this calibre, and I prefer it to my H&H .375 - is underpowered for a buffalo. Mine is a lovely rifle, very accurate and low recoil: but it is only suitable for plains game. (Neither is a 9.5x57 M-S properly suitable.) Doing the rounds on WhatsApp three or four years ago - before Covid - was a video of two enthusiasts who went after a buffalo with a 30-06 - it's probably linked somewhere on this website. The expedition didn't end well and the video ends with some loud screaming. I imagine that one of them, if he wasn't killed, ends up in a wheelchair and/ or with a colostomy bag.

In my opinion - only - it is entirely possible to kill buffalo with a smaller calibre, but that requires either a wholly accurate brain or neck shot. If it is not an accurate shot, someone is going to have to follow it up, with the considerable risk to the trackers and PH (and, I hope, the person who took the original shot: I'd certainly consider it a bit cowardly to fluff the original shot and then bugger off back to base camp leaving others to clear up the mess). There is a moral aspect to this: if one of the trackers get injured on the follow-up, that's down to you.

Caveat: I have shot precisely one buffalo, with a .470. It soaked up 3 shots of mine, and various others from the hangers-on - .375, .416, and .450, not all of which connected. My experience left me with a healthy respect for the animal.

In answer to your question, I am afraid that I certainly think that a buffalo rifle begins with a .4. Why not start with a .404 Jeffery, which is a (comparatively) gentle round, and can be used on plains game as well? Avoid the .460 Weatherby (harsh recoil).

You are making a contradiction here. Kevin Robertson’s client rifle for buffalo was a 9.3x62 that he said he loaded slow with heavy bullets.

 

[Sideshow]

Dr Kevin Robertson also said of that 9.3 rifle. He liked people to use it because they weren’t afraid of it so that first shot could be made to count. He also made sure that it stayed in Africa because of its fine history. If you listen to the big game hunting podcast think it’s this one he talks about it and how what he loaded he felt over preformed for the size of the cartridge. As @375Fox mentioned above.
With a stiffed shoulder from rugby I very neatly went this route when looking for my DG firearm. But a 375 came up which I got to have a go with. Sealed the deal.
Good thread though.

 

[sgt_zim]

I haven't gotten into reloading yet. It's another thing, that requires time to do it and space for the gear... the same way I regard turkey hunting...

There usually isn't much wiggle room when hand loading for doubles. Doesn't matter how fast you can push the pills if they won't regulate.

I disbelieve there is any practical difference between 375 flanged and 9.3x72. Do with that what you will.

 

[Sideshow]

Might not be that one could be episode 125.

 

[375Fox]

Dr Kevin Robertson also said of that 9.3 rifle. He liked people to use it because they weren’t afraid of it so that first shot could be made to count. He also made sure that it stayed in Africa because of its fine history. If you listen to the big game hunting podcast think it’s this one he talks about it and how what he loaded he felt over preformed for the size of the cartridge. As @375Fox mentioned above.
With a stiffed shoulder from rugby I very neatly went this route when looking for my DG firearm. But a 375 came up which I got to have a go with. Sealed the deal.
Good thread though.
View attachment 701922

It’s the Africa Hunting Bullets 101 episode 97

 

[Sideshow]

Thanks @375Fox knew it was one of those. Must have listened to all at lest 4 times. But try and find something on the spare of the moment

 

[IvW]

9,3 x 74 and the 9,3 x62 are not legal in Zimbabwe for buffalo, elephant and hippo. I am not sure about other countries. Having said that, both are capable cartridges but if something goes wrong ie you wound a buffalo and it escapes or worse injures someone, you will be in trouble with the authorities( read that as 3rd officials who will take great pleasure in harassing you and your wallet will likely be emptied. So 375 h&h is the minimum in Zim.

You are confused......

Minimum rifle energy requirement for big dangerous game (elephant, hippo, buffalo) is 5300 Joule or 9.2 diameter. Equivalent 3909.0 ft/lbs

 

[spike.t]

Many years ago 9.3x74r double with rws steel jacket solids..First shot frontal..2nd shot side as it turned....down and dead in bout 20 yards or less...

 

[sgt_zim]

Dr Kevin Robertson also said of that 9.3 rifle. He liked people to use it because they weren’t afraid of it so that first shot could be made to count. He also made sure that it stayed in Africa because of its fine history. If you listen to the big game hunting podcast think it’s this one he talks about it and how what he loaded he felt over preformed for the size of the cartridge. As @375Fox mentioned above.
With a stiffed shoulder from rugby I very neatly went this route when looking for my DG firearm. But a 375 came up which I got to have a go with. Sealed the deal.
Good thread though.
View attachment 701922

Speaking of J0hn McAdams and the legality of caliber .366, he got an elephant in Zim with his 9.3x62. He readily admits he made a mistake in bullet selection (Woodleigh solid, IIRC), but it still worked out.

 

[Hillcountry63]

This past year, while using a 9.3x74r that I got from Andrew62, with 286gn RWS, I had the opportunity on a fine bull. First shot buckled him and he staggered about 5 yards , turning to face me head down splay legged pouring blood from nostrils and mouth from a double lung shot. Second shot to the spine hump was unnecessary but prudent. He died just as dead as all my others from my 375 and I didn’t feel under gunned. During conversations with my PH and several other PH in camp, all said they had no issues with the 9.3x74r or any 9.3 for Buffalo. Do with that information what you will.

 

[AZDAVE]

Will a 9.3x74 kill a cape buffalo? the short answer is yes.

I have shot many african animals (Diker to Eland) with a 9.3x74 in a TC encore, Ruger #1, and my favorite rifle a Chapuis RGEX. These should be two different discussions.

Since the single shot can be loaded to much higher pressures and faster speed I will address the double. My Chapuis regulates with a 300gr Aframe and 280gr CEB solid at 2375fps and 2370. respectively.

The next question is does the shooter have the skill with a double to make a shot in the kill zone, and the discipline to not take marginal shots?

Also remember that a buffalo that is relaxed feeding with a perfect shot on the shoulder and one that has already had a dump of adrenaline is two different animals. My wife shot her first buffalo with a perfect shot on the shoulder with a 375 H&H. It bucked and ran 40ish yards collapsed gave a death bellow and was done. My first buffalo was shot on a buffalo that had just blown through a herd of domestic cattle, severely trounced the herd bull and was running when my first shot out of a 450NE double hit behind the shoulder through the heart and out in front of the offside shoulder. the second went through both lungs and out the other side. my third shot was at about 70 yards in right rear hip (From the rear perspective) through the liver the right lung and out the front. He ran another 50 yards and got in the thick stuff and looked back. we were about 40 yards out from the bull when he went down. All three shots were killing shots. But that relaxed vs wired up buffalo are two different situations. I wouldn't have taken those shot with my 9.3, but would have taken the shot my wife had all day long with the 9.3.

If you are going to hunt with the 9.3, you should get your outfitter/PH buy in before you go, and make sure it is legal in the area/country you are planning on hunting.

 

[Challer]

Perusing the library this morning with the usual Cartridges for Big Game books, the consensus seems to be that 9.3 is more than adequate and has been used very successfully on buff and elephant, "but there are better choices"

 

[Pondoro]

Why insist on using cartridges that are marginal when so many other better alternatives exist..?
Many buffaloes were killed with 7x57, .303 etc. back in the day..but how many were lost..?

A friend of mine shot a buff in Tanz. with a .308Win., one shot kill (neckshot) with no backup. What if the animal did attack..?

I own a 9,3x74R double..lovely rifle but I draw the line with .375H&H..

 

[steve white]

There usually isn't much wiggle room when hand loading for doubles. Doesn't matter how fast you can push the pills if they won't regulate.

I disbelieve there is any practical difference between 375 flanged and 9.3x72. Do with that what you will.

I definitely believe you meant the 9.3x74, much more powerful than the x72
I am torn about whether my decision to sell a great 9.3x74 was a good decision after all. I went with 375 H&H because of legality.
I also remember Kevin Robertson's penchant for the 505 Gibbs...

 

[Surgeon1]

My first buffalo ever was with my 470NE Heym that I became intimately involved with by shooting
350 rounds over a year prior to the Safari. That bull was one of my best, shot at 25yds, !st hit busted his shoulder 2nd was a double lung he ran 20 yds and went down on his chest and was backup and ran
faster than I could reload to put 2 more in him. The chase was on and he went over a mile with 3 other Bulls giving him escort! By the time we got up to them he was laying down, blood everywhere and the other 3 were providing security and I was so gung-ho to end it and too stupid to know that someone besides the bull could be hurt or killed. He stood up like the fight was just getting started and with 2 more 470NE hits (one into his hip and one in the spine), it was done and a finisher into the chest for good measure (bullets are cheap even Swifts......Thank You Buzz).
I've taken the last 4 buffalo with a very sweet Heym 450/400 with Swift A-frames always doing my best to put 2 quick hits in. the furthest went 75 yds!
Things I've learned, don't use solids or TSXs on buffalo, save solids for elephants. Make the first shot count. Go to the skinning shed to collect your bullets and see what damage was done and how it could have been better. As a surgeon I learned long ago that a lot can be learned from a careful Autopsy!