577 NE double rifles

[Adam Stevens]

There appears to be a bit of camera shenanigans going on there. The 577 looks to be closer than the 470.

Was gonna say the same haha.

I do appreciate the exaggeration, but it's a bit like holding a fish further from your body.

 

[matt85]

Was gonna say the same haha.

I do appreciate the exaggeration, but it's a bit like holding a fish further from your body.

Now my 8-bore does look like that compared to a 470!

 

[PeteG]

I’ve just had the chance to handle 2 x 577’s.
One a Heym 89B and the other a Verney Carron.

The heym was a fair bit lighter, longer barrels balanced perfectly.
The Verney Carron is a fair bit heavier, could be more of a challenge to carry, shorter barrels but also balanced perfectly.

Both came up to the shoulder very nicely and pointed easily.
I fired the VC off hand at a target 50yds away and it was not a challenge on recoil. The balance and weight took up the recoil to a point that it doesn’t feel like much more than a light 458lott.
A nice solid push, not much barrel flip and easy to come back onto target.

Surprisingly less felt recoil than I expected.

 

[matt85]

I’ve just had the chance to handle 2 x 577’s.
One a Heym 89B and the other a Verney Carron.

The heym was a fair bit lighter, longer barrels balanced perfectly.
The Verney Carron is a fair bit heavier, could be more of a challenge to carry, shorter barrels but also balanced perfectly.

Both came up to the shoulder very nicely and pointed easily.
I fired the VC off hand at a target 50yds away and it was not a challenge on recoil. The balance and weight took up the recoil to a point that it doesn’t feel like much more than a light 458lott.
A nice solid push, not much barrel flip and easy to come back onto target.

Surprisingly less felt recoil than I expected.

While I've never handled a Heym 577, I have handled a Verney Carron 577 and thought very highly of the example I handled. Sadly, I have not had a chance to shoot any modern example of a 577.

I have shot a few vintage 577's and my personal favorite was an Army & Navy double that a gentleman brought to one of Cal Pappas's double rifle shoots. Apparently both me and Cal had offered to buy the rifle from the owner .

 

[PeteG]

While I've never handled a Heym 577, I have handled a Verney Carron 577 and thought very highly of the example I handled. Sadly, I have not had a chance to shoot any modern example of a 577.

I have shot a few vintage 577's and my personal favorite was an Army & Navy double that a gentleman brought to one of Cal Pappas's double rifle shoots. Apparently both me and Cal had offered to buy the rifle from the owner .

If you get the chance have a look at the heym. It felt better in hand than the VC.

 

[matt85]

If you get the chance have a look at the heym. It felt better in hand than the VC.

I'm more interested in how a gun shoots. I owned a Heym double in 500 NE at one point and ended up selling it because I found it unpleasant to shoot. With that said, ANY double gun in 577 NE is so rare that I would likely not pass up the chance to at least try shooting it.

 

[bimbo]

Did it come with a gun bearer ?I'm just kidding

These rifles used during the hey day of elephant hunting, or ivory trade in Africa, and in Shikar's in India, had dedicated hunting party to hold and take care of all your hunting equipments.
Sold togheter with a gun bearer...Higly Reccomended !!!I am NOT just kidding

 

[Wyfox]

@matt85
Here is a 577 that is affordable

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/double-rifles-english/alfred-lancaster-son-of-charles-577-2-3-4-bpe-underlever-rebounding-hammer-steel-barrels-excellent-bores-dies-brass-very-solid-rifle.cfm?gun_id=103828957

 

[Red Leg]

@matt85
Here is a 577 that is affordable

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/double-rifles-english/alfred-lancaster-son-of-charles-577-2-3-4-bpe-underlever-rebounding-hammer-steel-barrels-excellent-bores-dies-brass-very-solid-rifle.cfm?gun_id=103828957

A .577 BPE is very different than Nitro Express. It was created with soft skinned dangerous game in mind and was effective on lions and tigers inside 100 yards. It neither was nor is now a smart choice for buffalo or especially elephant. Up until the debut of Nitro powder rifles, it was a fairly common choice for use from Houdah's on driven tiger (though even then the quicker and lighter .500 BPE was more popular). On such a hunt, the elephant was acting as gun bearer.

 

[SStomcat]

@matt85
Here is a 577 that is affordable

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/double-rifles-english/alfred-lancaster-son-of-charles-577-2-3-4-bpe-underlever-rebounding-hammer-steel-barrels-excellent-bores-dies-brass-very-solid-rifle.cfm?gun_id=103828957

A Black Powder express not any more good than just having some fun at the range.

 

[AZDAVE]

@SStomcat
I will beg to differ with the effectiveness of the 577 BPE. In 2018 I took a very large old giraffe with a 650 gr soft 1850fps through the shoulder heart and lodged against the far shoulder. As it ran I put a second through the lungs that was a complete pass through. The animal traveled 40 yards and went down.

 

[SStomcat]

@SStomcat
I will beg to differ with the effectiveness of the 577 BPE. In 2018 I took a very large old giraffe with a 650 gr soft 1850fps through the shoulder heart and lodged against the far shoulder. As it ran I put a second through the lungs that was a complete pass through. The animal traveled 40 yards and went down.

Absolutely,

In context of big game like Cape Buffalo, or Elephant with thick skin, muscle mass and large bones, I have honestly no idea but have been told by those that have a lot more experience that it is less than ideal.
So feel free to disagree and correct me if my understanding does not align with yours.

 

[AZDAVE]

@SStomcat
I only commented as you mention "A Black Powder express not any more good than just having some fun at the range".

With a 650gr .585 solid (Kinda pre expanded compared to smaller rounds) at 1850 I would say it is buffalo capable out to say 60 yards. Most folks don't think about a giraffe's true size, plus the bones are as big and even denser than a buffs. not to mention that the skin is even thicker. (they just don't have the attitude of buffalo) But the hunter with the 577 BPE would need to take shots like say a 9.3 or 375. Perfect broadside shots and be willing to walk away from less than optimum presentations on buffalo. WOULD NOT use a bpe on elephant, rhino, or hippo on land.

I have two 577 singles that I normally shoot at BPE levels. I do also load 600gr and 650gr modern bullets at 2150 or 750gr at 2000. Two totally different experiences with between a nitro express and BPE class of rifles.

My problem is I love hunting DG with a double. all of my DG has been taken with one of my doubles.
450NE, 500/416, 450/400, and 9.3x74. With the exception of my leopard.

I Backed a buddy up on his elephant with a 500 Jeff bolt gun as the only exception.

 

[SStomcat]

@SStomcat
I only commented as you mention "A Black Powder express not any more good than just having some fun at the range".

With a 650gr .585 solid (Kinda pre expanded compared to smaller rounds) at 1850 I would say it is buffalo capable out to say 60 yards. Most folks don't think about a giraffe's true size, plus the bones are as big and even denser than a buffs. not to mention that the skin is even thicker. (they just don't have the attitude of buffalo) But the hunter with the 577 BPE would need to take shots like say a 9.3 or 375. Perfect broadside shots and be willing to walk away from less than optimum presentations on buffalo. WOULD NOT use a bpe on elephant, rhino, or hippo on land.


My problem is I love hunting DG with a double. all of my DG has been taken with one of my doubles.
450NE, 500/416, 450/400, and 9.3x74. With the exception of my leopard.

I Backed a buddy up on his elephant with a 500 Jeff bolt gun as the only exception.

This is the beauty of a forum like this. Thank you for clarifying my understanding.
I may still use my nitro double on Buff, as I do not own any BPE but it always helps to be educated.
I won’t call hunting DG with double a problem I would rather call it passion or good problem

 

[AZDAVE]

Yes it is a passion. Love my doubles. My statement on the problem is that I have over 20 DG capable bolt and single shots that don't make it to Africa on DG hunts.

 

[PCC600]

A lot of commentary about 577 BPE rifles . In a nitro for black loading they are very effective on buffalo . Worth noting that Dave Lindner a renowned Aussie game ranger and hunter had an Army & Navy rifle 577BPE ( Webley Screw Grip action ) called “Sweet Heart “ . This rifle has killed more buffalo than probably any double out there . It has a cut down 22 inch barrel and uses full nitro loads with 750 grain bullets . I don’t know the velocity achieved but guess it is circa 1900fps. Strangely it is not that bad to shoot with full loads . I’d baulk at trying to take an elephant but would have total faith in going for any type of buffalo with a good 577 BPE .

 

[matt85]

I've considered a 577 BPE. Plenty of water buffalo and wild cattle have been taken in Australia with the 577 BPE 2 3/4" and 3".

 

[Sarg]

A lot of commentary about 577 BPE rifles . In a nitro for black loading they are very effective on buffalo . Worth noting that Dave Lindner a renowned Aussie game ranger and hunter had an Army & Navy rifle 577BPE ( Webley Screw Grip action ) called “Sweet Heart “ . This rifle has killed more buffalo than probably any double out there . It has a cut down 22 inch barrel and uses full nitro loads with 750 grain bullets . I don’t know the velocity achieved but guess it is circa 1900fps. Strangely it is not that bad to shoot with full loads . I’d baulk at trying to take an elephant but would have total faith in going for any type of buffalo with a good 577 BPE .

@PCC600 you are close on this but off on your names !

Dave was involved with the botched capture of “Sweetheart” the boat motor munching Salt Water Croc, but the cut down A&N .577 2 3/4in LN/NFB top lever hammerless double is called “Stumpy” since his accident !

Only last month I was talking to the boys about his whereabouts while I was in the NT !

 

[PCC600]

@PCC600 you are close on this but off on your names !

Dave was involved with the botched capture of “Sweetheart” the boat motor munching Salt Water Croc, but the cut down A&N .577 2 3/4in LN/NFB top lever hammerless double is called “Stumpy” since his accident !

Only last month I was talking to the boys about his whereabouts while I was in the NT !

Sarg - you are spot on . Sweetheart the big croc that Dave caught and Stumpy the rifle . It now resides near Brisbane with an armoury full of 577s both NE and BPE , 8 bores , Paradoxes , Super Magnum Exploras and Faunetas . I’m lucky enough to get to shoot this stuff and occasionally buy one or two . But back to Stumpy - short / brutish - but a significant history of hunting in the NT . Cheers

 

[Sarg]

Sarg - you are spot on . Sweetheart the big croc that Dave caught and Stumpy the rifle . It now resides near Brisbane with an armoury full of 577s both NE and BPE , 8 bores , Paradoxes , Super Magnum Exploras and Faunetas . I’m lucky enough to get to shoot this stuff and occasionally buy one or two . But back to Stumpy - short / brutish - but a significant history of hunting in the NT . Cheers

Is he, that is very interesting, I have been following that rifle for 20yrs I reckon !

I have also heard of your friend with the big bore arsenal, as many of the rifles I was looking for or following went to him, you are very lucky !

PS I have tens of Pheasants all over my driveway & fighting on my lawn this week, this morning I was watching two fighting over a couple of Hens & out of the Blackberries runs another & into the now three way fight !!