.500 Jeffery action options?

[Wyatt Smith]

I get 1.102” and 12.7 TPI for the BRNO Either way they are not interchangeable.

 

[njc110381]

I'm 83 years old and my last math class was in 1957. I'm asking you to provide the Imperial measurements. If you're going to provide information, it would help to have it in useable form.

There are 25.4mm to the inch. So M28x2 is very close to 1.1"x12tpi. 1 1/8"UNF is 28.575mm and 12tpi. A thread every 2mm would be about 12.7 to the inch. My maths was never that strong mind!

My guess is that it would be wrong enough to not fit.

 

[Scrumbag]

There are 25.4mm to the inch. So M28x2 is very close to 1.1"x12tpi. 1 1/8"UNF is 28.575mm and 12tpi. A thread every 2mm would be about 12.7 to the inch. My maths was never that strong mind!

My guess is that it would be wrong enough to not fit.

I would guess so too.

 

[gibbs30c]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I popped a post up on here, I hope you're all keeping well?

A gunsmith friend of mine dropped me a message the other day to say he'd stumbled across a pre chambered barrel in .500 Jeff. I'm not sure where or how, but it's there and apparently threads nicely into a standard Mauser action that he had lying around. I'm just wondering if those of you who may have a bit of experience in this may know what other actions it may fit? Or will it be a try it and see affair?

I have a .416 Rigby and had no intention of adding to the stable, but this opportunity looks to be a good one. I'm considering doing a build just for the challenge. I've always wanted one of the bolt action .50's but never thought it would happen! It's quite exciting really.

Just finished building a 500 Jeffery on a standard length Model 1935 FN '98 action. Took some doing the biggest issue is feeding.

I opted for a single stack which limits the mag to two rounds. I used a 300 wsm savage 110 mag box that I cut and add a sheet metal front to obtain the length. That was fitted to a stamped winter trigger guard with the mag box removed. I made an AL follower and reshaped that huge trigger guard to something more normal size. It is a bit ugly but works great.

Since this is a working rifle looks are not an issue with me. The barrel came from McGowen and was short chambered I got the finish reamer from 4D rentals and finished the chamber with the "T" handle. Of course I had to open the bolt face up and modify the extractor. And I fitted an addition recoil lug to the barrel. Two cross bolts were added to the stock and two cross pins, one behind the barrel recoil lug and one behind the tang. The whole thing was the glass bedded tight using powder metal reinforced Brownells bedding.

Put 12 rounds through it Sunday for the first time a combo of handloads and Norma factory solids. It is going to be a great shooter and will have a Quick removal vintage Lyman peep and a 2.5 X 20 Leupold scope in QD rings giving me the ability to swap between the peep and scope as needed. All will be backed up with a folding Win Mod 70 open sight mounted just ahead of the action. The removable peep will be carried in a small pouch with a lanyard attached on the sling.

I'm not happy with the front sight and will probably change it to an NEC band. The elevation for the peep has to be adjusted with blade height as the peep will sit flat and tight on the rear block to ensure a correct return to zero, That will take some doing and a file type of blade may be used.

The final finish on the stock is drying as I type.

The 500 jeffery is the max that can be built in a standard length '98 but Jeffery is said to have built his on Mag length. Schuler and all the small shops build most of theirs on WWI surplus actions. But some metal does have to be removed from the lower action lug to get the proper length and feeding. This is not a problem if done right. Remember this is a max chamber pressure round of 46,000 PSI. Also you will have to remove metal between the rails to get that fat case to pass through them. That is how all the old rifles I have seen have been modified.

Good luck with the build, you may tear your hair out doing it but it will be worth it.

 

[JvW]

Jeffery indeed had the 24 .500 Jeffery rifles sold under their name built on Magnum M98 actions (they were made for Jeffery by Gibbs and Leonard-Jeffery never made their own guns, they were retailers). They were renowned as some of the smoothest-feeding rifles ever made. I've seen two of them, including one of the two engraved ones (the other engraved one was made for Fletcher Jamison and is in the US now). A friend has a Watson Bros .500 Jeffery (only one they ever made, in 2000) and it is made on a standard-length, square-bridge Oberndorf M98 action that used to be a 10,75x68 in Mozambique many, many years ago. It is fitted with a custom magazine box (3+1) and feeds like clockwork as well.

 

[HWL]

There is only one befitting action for a .500 Jeffery.....

HWL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

There is only one befitting action for a .500 Jeffery.....

HWL

@HWL
Apart from the big M17,P14 actions and a double square bridge magnum Mauser do tell.
Bob

 

[HWL]

@HWL
Apart from the big M17, P14 actions and a double square bridge magnum Mauser do tell.
Bob

And you're forgiven, as long as you do not mention this damned R8

HWL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

And you're forgiven, as long as you do not mention this damned R8

HWL

@HWL
Wash your mouth out with soap. We are talking real actions not high tech modern stuff.

 

[Opposite Pole]

@HWL
Wash your mouth out with soap. We are talking real actions not high tech modern stuff.

I take exception to that Bob!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I take exception to that Bob!

@Opposite Pole
An old cartridge needs an old action.
As good as the R8 is I see the old rounds in old actions, they just seen to go hand in hand.

 

[gibbs30c]

Not sure what HWL means by only one action befitting the 500 Jeffery?

Fact is the vast majority of 500 Jeffery were built on Standard length WWI surplus actions, and not just by Schuler but by the various small shops. It is hard to argue with 100 years of dependable and reliable service, for the Standard length 500 Jeffery/Schuler chambered rifles.

The fact that Schuler (no maker of junk) specifically designed the 500 to fit and work through the Standard Length also speaks volumes, for that action choice.

JvW is also correct in that Jeffery's 24 (have also heard 25) rifles were on Magnum '98's the question is was that all the 500's that bear his name. The Magnum '98's being built by Gibbs also makes sense since Gibbs built his 505 on that action, and probably prefered that action.

I have seen two 500 Jeffery's built on P-14 actions bearing the W.J. Jeffery name. One at auction and one in a gun shop, I have no doubt they came from W. J. Jeffery Co,. in England. I have also read of the number of 125 for the total number of 500's built by Jeffery. The others may have been on the P-14's and maybe the Standard '98's. Don't know if the 125 number is accurate, but collectors I know swear Standard Length '98's bear the W. J. Jeffery name, I have never seen one, but I can swear to the P-14's.

We must remember W. J. Jeffery died in 1909 11 years before this chambering. He did build mostly shotguns and some rifles before his death in his shop from all I've read. After that the firm past to other family members and contract work was employed. Today it is owned by Westley Richards and I think they produce a limited number of guns bearing the W. J. Jeffery name.

Bob is spot on in saying the 1917, and P-14 actions (a distinction without much of a difference) are great choices for a 500 Jeffery build. It is almost perfect and many "sporterized" 1917's can still be found in used gun racks, pawn shops, and private sales at reasonable prices.

I built a 404 Jeffery on a P-14 last year and used it in S. Africa this summer, it performed flawless and I intend to build a second 500 Jeffery using a 1917 action I have, they both will make a great combo.

I'm not by any means an experienced African hunter, I have only been five times now. But one thing I do, is use only rifles I have built myself and ammo I have loaded. If anything fails it is all on me and me alone.

But HWL, I must disagree on the R8. Another hunter who was using the same Safari CO. this summer, had a switch barrel R8 in 300 Win and 375 H&H. It served him well and I was impressed with it's performance. With it's Synthetic stock it was as ugly as sin, but I always follow the old rule "Form Follows Function".

Biggest problem with the 500 now is finding components for loading. I have heard that Norma has dropped the 500 Jeffery brass from it's line-up. Hope that is wrong and I also hope Hornady starts production, but it looks like Hornady has now dropped the 505 Gibbs brass. Bad News!

Good shooting and Good hunting to all

As Kieth said "Good Guns, Good Whiskey, and Good Friends" that is what makes life great.

 

[HWL]

Not sure what HWL means by only one action befitting the 500 Jeffery?



But HWL, I must disagree on the R8. Another hunter who was using the same Safari CO. this summer, had a switch barrel R8 in 300 Win and 375 H&H. It served him well and I was impressed with it's performance. With it's Synthetic stock it was as ugly as sin, but I always follow the old rule "Form Follows Function".

The one and only action a 500 Jeff deserves is a standard M98.... made by a qualified gunsmith.

But meanwhile, since te 500 is a standard chambering in the R8, I think there are more Blasers around than all others together.

And it is not a surprise that it works.


HWL

 

[gibbs30c]

Dead on right HWL, the 500 Jeffery screams for the Standard Length '98, to honor tradition if nothing else.

You are also right about the Blasers, production probably outstripping original production. Heck when the CZ's and Sako's are thrown in, I'm sure the new production is many times greater today, then the total of the previous century.

That is why I'm baffled as to why Norma would drop the brass. Let's hope it is just a temp production thing during these crazy times of shortage.

The cost of factory loads makes reloading, at least for me a MUST!

 

[njc110381]

Ah guys! Talk about throwing a spanner in the works! surely if Jeffery had their rifles made on a magnum 98, I should do the same? My gunsmith has a bucket full of standard 98's - he's just potentially found a magnum for a good price though.

Why would you choose a standard length over a magnum if it takes a lot of adjustment to fit?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Ah guys! Talk about throwing a spanner in the works! surely if Jeffery had their rifles made on a magnum 98, I should do the same? My gunsmith has a bucket full of standard 98's - he's just potentially found a magnum for a good price though.

Why would you choose a standard length over a magnum if it takes a lot of adjustment to fit?

@njc110381
Stupid me turned down a Zastava magnum action with trigger and bottom metal for $600AUD. I should be taken out and used for range practice for being so stupid.
Bob

 

[njc110381]

@njc110381
Stupid me turned down a Zastava magnum action with trigger and bottom metal for $600AUD. I should be taken out and used for range practice for being so stupid.
Bob

Well that was a bit silly. I can't judge a fellow Whelen user too harshly though - you're not so daft!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well that was a bit silly. I can't judge a fellow Whelen user too harshly though - you're not so daft!

@njc110381
Mate fellow Whelen user or not I was bloody silly. Could have on sold it at a small profit to someone who really needed it at a bargain price.
That was $438 US for a proper magnum length action.

 

[gibbs30c]

Not throwing a spanner at all njc, although we would call it a "monkey wrench".

We build on what we think is the best action for our needs, and really for our wants.

It is an individual choice no wrong answer here. As I said the 1917 and P-14's are also very good choices.

If you can get a Magnum length and want to build a 500 Jeffery on that you will end up with a fine rifle, that I'm sure will serve you well, but the same is true for a standard length '98.

That being said if I had a Mag length '98 I'd look long and hard at the 505 Gibbs. Brass is easier to come by, and the working pressures are just a tad over 39,000 PSI for the max loads.

It also doesn't have the rebated rim of the 500J and that fact will make feeding more reliable. You may also have better luck with a double stack magazine system in the 505 Gibbs, and the neck is much longer than the 500 Jeffery/Schuler giving you more flexibility in handloading.

The 500 Jeffery/Schuler works at a slightly higher max of 46,000 PSI. Still a low number.

But the rebated rim of the 500J, if not fitted to the bolt and extractor right is much less forgiving. To get the rebated rim to feed well, you really need the single stack magazine system.

Remember Jeffery did not design the 500 Jeffery, they adopted it, so they were not invested in the Standard length action as was Schuler.

Schuler in Germany developed the 500 Schuler later renamed the 500 Jeffery in England.

Schuler designed the 500 specifically to function well and work through the standard length action. That was his objective.

The Magnum Length action could be considered overkill and that would make it a better value for a true Mag. length cartridge. Remember Jeffery only built 24 or 25 rifles on the Mag. length action.

A far greater number of Schuler's and most of the smaller shops were built on Standard Length '98 actions, and most of those were WWI surplus.

Also Jeffery was not against building on standard length actions. They built most of their 404 Jeffery's on Standard length '98's.

The 404 has a longer 3.530" COL compared to the 500's 3.46" COL. The longer COL for 404 did not bother the Jeffery Co. one bit in the standard length action.

Nor did it bother Rigby who built a lot of 416 Rigbys also on Standard length actions despite the fatter case and a COL of 3.750"

Many firms old and new, built 375's on Standard length actions, like Mark X and Santa Barber, also the Win Model 70 in 375 is a standard length action.

I built mine on a standard length action because I wanted to first see if I could duplicate the work of the Schuler and small shops. Secondally I wanted something I believe is a more traditional action/rifle for this chambering. But that is all a personal choice, and maybe not the best path for you.

Even with the Magnum length action for a 500 Jeffery you will still have to do much of the same work as with the Standard length action. Such as the feed rails, bolt face, extractor, follower, and I believe you would still end up with a single stack. The only thing you won't have to do is lengthen the mag box and open up the action slightly.

The longer mag box and mag well for the 500 Jeffery are needed in the Standard Length today, to allow use of the 570 gr. and 600 gr bullets. The standard load in 1920 was designed around a 535 gr. bullet, and so was the COL of 3.46".

The heavier bullets today are designed for the 500 NE and the Cannelure is in the wrong place for crimping and keeping COL to 3.46", without trimming the already shorter 500 Jeffery neck. You must crimp with this recoil, but if you don't trim then the COL will exceed the 3.46 length especially with the Barnes, hence a longer box and opened up mag well are needed, if you want to use bullets over 535 to 540 gr.

Of course a 505 Gibbs on the Mag Length action will also require much of that same work and will require a longer guard screw spacing, that may require a more expensive stock than a standard length '98 stock.

Whatever action you choose, I think you will be happy with your rifle, and it will serve you well.

Good luck with the build.

 

[njc110381]

Given the choice I probably would go for a Gibbs. The thing is, my gunsmith stumbled across a pre chambered barrel in .500 Jeff and after a bit of a chat we've decided we could have a play and see what we can do with it. The whole idea kind of evolved from finding the barrel!