.458 Lott recoil is no joke

Forrest Halley

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So with the duplex load, one powder goes in the shell and then the other. The goal is to keep them layered or is it a mixture at some point? I'm guessing that the load fills the case to capacity or else it gets mixed up over time? Please tell us, mainly me, more. Let us, the group of people reading this post, receive this knowledge calmly so that a level of respect can be maintained for all by all.
 

Professor Mawla

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So with the duplex load, one powder goes in the shell and then the other. The goal is to keep them layered or is it a mixture at some point? I'm guessing that the load fills the case to capacity or else it gets mixed up over time? Please tell us, mainly me, more. Let us, the group of people reading this post, receive this knowledge calmly so that a level of respect can be maintained for all by all.
@Forrest Halley
Yes , in a duplex load you use two powders . I tweaked the amounts to suit the limited case volume of the .458 WM . 60 grains of Somchem S335 go first . This is topped by 10 grains of Somchem S265 . The load fills the .458 WM shell casing . Somchem S335 is the primary gunpowder with 10 grains of Somchem S265 topping it off . And one more thing . People who google “ Somchem 265 “ will quickly read the first few search results saying that it is used for revolvers . However , this is no hard and fast rule . Lots of people also use Somchem S265 for also reloading the 7.62x39 mm calibre and the 7.62x51 mm NATO calibre . Duplex loads are dangerous when using fast burning pistol powders .
 
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Forrest Halley

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@Forrest Halley
Yes , in a duplex load you use two powders . I tweaked the amounts to suit the limited case volume of the .458 WM . 60 grains of Somchem S335 go first . This is topped by 10 grains of Somchem S265 . The load fills the .458 WM shell casing . Somchem S335 is the primary gunpowder with 10 grains of Somchem S265 topping it off . And one more thing . People who google “ Somchem 265 “ will quickly read the first few search results saying that it is used for revolvers . However , this is no hard and fast rule . Lots of people also use Somchem S265 for also reloading the 7.62x39 mm calibre and the 7.62x51 mm NATO calibre . Duplex loads are dangerous when using fast burning pistol powders .
@Professor Mawla ,
Good day and thank you for your reply. How stable are these loads over the long term? Is this something you want to use quickly and not leave sitting around? I think I will likely avoid them due to the complexity of the process, but it is nice to hear knowledge being shared. I wonder how it would work with Win 748 and Win 296. I have switched to 748 for its metering property and enjoy making a lot of Lott rapidly as opposed to the slow measuring of 4895.
 

Professor Mawla

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@Professor Mawla ,
Good day and thank you for your reply. How stable are these loads over the long term? Is this something you want to use quickly and not leave sitting around? I think I will likely avoid them due to the complexity of the process, but it is nice to hear knowledge being shared. I wonder how it would work with Win 748 and Win 296. I have switched to 748 for its metering property and enjoy making a lot of Lott rapidly as opposed to the slow measuring of 4895.
@Forrest Halley
You are very welcome . Actually , I would strongly suggest to only hand load them at the beginning of the hunting season and break down whatever you have left at the end of the season . The only two .458 WM loads which I would recommend to be stored for prolonged periods of times are :
a ) Hornady DGX Bonded and DGS 500 grain factory loaded ammunition
b ) Nosler Partition 500 grain factory loaded ammunition

I still have two boxes of Hornady DGS 500 grain factory loads for the .458 WM , which I purchased back in 2011 . The advertised velocity was 2140 fps ( feet per second ) . Actual chronographed velocity after even nine years , was 2135 fps . This is more than adequate for any dangerous game animal alive .
6AFE6938-EE6A-46AF-AC0C-A45F8118C07C.jpeg

I also still possess three boxes of vintage Winchester Super X grain factory loaded ammunition ( one box of 500 grain round nosed steel jacketed solids and two boxes of 510 grain soft nosed rounds ) for the .458 WM which I had purchased in 1985 . These boast an advertised velocity of 2040 feet per second , employing primitive Olin ball powder . Actual velocity ( chronographed in 2019 ) was 2027 fps . Not safe for frontal brain shots on large elephant bulls or frontal heart shots on Gaur , but perfectly adequate for Royal Bengal tigers , cheetahs and wild boars .

On a related subject , perhaps this article should interest you when you find some free time . https://www.africahunting.com/threa...unition-for-sorting-out-dangerous-game.58911/ . I wrote it a week ago . I provided more details in it about the .458 WM and my practical use of this calibre against dangerous game .

No one will claim that the .458 WM is the best calibre in the world . That would be an extremely cavalier and untrue statement ( even though I personally would not trade mine for the world ) . But with proper loading techniques , adequate it certainly is .
 
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Professor Mawla

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How much 3031 are you stuffing in there with your 500 grain bullets Professor Mawla? I have used 3031 in my 458 Winchester for 405 grain bullets, and 450 grain. It worked good in my 45/70 as well.

Thanks
Craig
@machinistbutler
I use 70 grains of IMR 3031 gunpowder when hand loading 500 grain Rhino Solid Shanks . Chronographed velocity is 2093 fps ( feet per second ) .
In the past , I have also hand loaded these with IMR 3031 .
13B0064B-4504-44C0-B6FA-5ECDAE09EDBB.jpeg

Old pattern Barnes 500 grain copper jacketed lead cored solids .
 

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I also have a no.1 in .458 but I reload ”North American “loads for it which helps with the recoil. I’m a big fan of balanced rifles as they handle much better than barrel or butt stock heavy ones. I found that putting a shell holder on my butt stock and loading it with 10 rounds works perfectly for balance as well as helping to dampen the recoil.
 

CoElkHunter

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@Professor Mawla ,
Good day and thank you for your reply. How stable are these loads over the long term? Is this something you want to use quickly and not leave sitting around? I think I will likely avoid them due to the complexity of the process, but it is nice to hear knowledge being shared. I wonder how it would work with Win 748 and Win 296. I have switched to 748 for its metering property and enjoy making a lot of Lott rapidly as opposed to the slow measuring of 4895.
Glad to hear about using the W748. I have a bunch of it and was contemplating using it for my WM and Lott. Load data for it seems to be scarce though.
 

Forrest Halley

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Glad to hear about using the W748. I have a bunch of it and was contemplating using it for my WM and Lott. Load data for it seems to be scarce though.
@CoElkHunter is putting the squeeze on me for load data...haha! I shall have to look it up and reply. My electronic notes are lacking. Perhaps this is of some help.
Screenshot_20200831-084443.png
 

CoElkHunter

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@CoElkHunter is putting the squeeze on me for load data...haha! I shall have to look it up and reply. My electronic notes are lacking. Perhaps this is of some help. View attachment 365421
Thanks Forrest! But I forgot to mention I only mostly have the LONG 450gr and 500gr Barnes TSX .458 bullets, so I don’t know if I could get enough 748 in the cases for a light-medium load without compressing the powder over 100 percent? I do have some 350gr Speers which would work with the 748. I’ve only loaded all of the above bullets with H335.
Thanks!
CEH
 

Forrest Halley

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Thanks Forrest! But I forgot to mention I only mostly have the LONG 450gr and 500gr Barnes TSX .458 bullets, so I don’t know if I could get enough 748 in the cases for a light-medium load without compressing the powder over 100 percent? I do have some 350gr Speers which would work with the 748. I’ve only loaded all of the above bullets with H335.
Thanks!
CEH
Just so you know, I had to go elsewhere to get a quickload done for me. The quickload fairy apparently doesn't come by often here.
 

CoElkHunter

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Picked up some 450 and 500 grain a frames, the 450 look quite a bit shorter. Looking forward to testing them out. The Barnes are definately long!
Yes, I bet the A Frames are much shorter than the Barnes. But, I bought a lot of the Barnes on sale so I’m stuck with them. H335 works well, but I need to burn this 748 and I don’t reload .308W or .22-250 Rem much any longer with the 748 so? I’ll just pack a bunch of 748 and light it off! AND it’s older 748 still in it’s original container, so I’ll load it light and see what happens?
 

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Just picked up 60 more rounds of ammo for the Lott. One box of Hornady 500gr DGS, one box of Hornady 500gr DGX, and one box of Nosler Safari 500gr Partitions. Finding a nice recoil pad was probably the worst thing I could do because I love shooting this more than my .416 Rem Mag now, and have decided to sell that since I don't want two big bore rifles. Not to mention I don't reload so the Lott ammo is going to quickly burn a hole through my pocket, but at least I can find ammo for it. I had a harder time trying to find some good ammo for my 300 Win Mag today than I did for the Lott.
 

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Just picked up 60 more rounds of ammo for the Lott. One box of Hornady 500gr DGS, one box of Hornady 500gr DGX, and one box of Nosler Safari 500gr Partitions. Finding a nice recoil pad was probably the worst thing I could do because I love shooting this more than my .416 Rem Mag now, and have decided to sell that since I don't want two big bore rifles. Not to mention I don't reload so the Lott ammo is going to quickly burn a hole through my pocket, but at least I can find ammo for it. I had a harder time trying to find some good ammo for my 300 Win Mag today than I did for the Lott.

With a big bore it really is worth investing in some basic reloading kit. Even if you don't have the confidence to load for a DG hunt it's worth doing for the range, and with a bit of reading can be done quite safely.

Factory loads for my .416 Rigby start at about £150/20 - £7.50 each here in the UK. I can home load with a Barnes TSX for £2.09 per round, £41.80/20! On a standard belted case like the Lott you don't need capacity for big dies, so a basic press will be just fine. I paid less than the saving on one box of .416 for my first (used) reloading kit - press, scales, dies... Everything!
 

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I only shot 5 rounds of factory (the first five) of the 500 rounds I have fired through my 500 Jeffery. Those 5 factory rounds cost $80. It costs me under $2 a round to shoot my 500 Jeffery now, with better bullets, more zip and more control of the ammunition.
 

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Bottom line after cutting through the cheff is the 458 Lott is one of the extreme kickers in the big bore world! in any make or model of gun IMO...I much prefer a 500 N.E....It just is..a different recoil pad won't help it one bit..perhaps a muzzle brake might be your only salvation but were it me I just sell it to some tough guy short of brains..:LOL:
 

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Bottom line after cutting through the cheff is the 458 Lott is one of the extreme kickers in the big bore world! in any make or model of gun IMO...I much prefer a 500 N.E....It just is..a different recoil pad won't help it one bit..perhaps a muzzle brake might be your only salvation but were it me I just sell it to some tough guy short of brains..:LOL:

Funny how different folks feel things differently. I find my Lott very manageable and accurate. I’ve had enough of my buddy’s .500 after just two or three shots. I guess we all just need to use what works for us.
 

colorado

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Funny how different folks feel things differently. I find my Lott very manageable and accurate. I’ve had enough of my buddy’s .500 after just two or three shots. I guess we all just need to use what works for us.

Exactly after two or three shots from the big 50s a 458 Lott is but a maiden's kiss Based on the recoil calculator

458 Lott 500g bullet 2300 fps (max) 85g powder 10 lb rifle weight = 76 ft lbs recoil 22 fps recoil velocity

500 Jeffery 570g bullet 2510 fps (max) 120g powder 12 lb rifle weight = 108 ft lbs recoil 24 fps recoil velocity
 

Forrest Halley

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The .500 Jeffery is a cool cartridge. That rebated rim is a downer though. I suppose the recoil may be quite stout indeed.
My Lott weighs 9½# and gives a pretty good recoil impulse. I don't have anything to compare it to. My friends don't indulge in my recoil junky lifestyle so comparison is very difficult. All told I like my peppy little rifle and feel that I am well equipped to handle most things I may encounter in dreams and afield.
 

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