450 Lott - bullet weight and type suggestions

Kudurifle

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Ok, I learned a lot from you folks on a similar post regarding 300 WM for plains game. I will also be hunting buffalo this fall in SA. I am bringing a customized CZ 550 458 Lott. The stock is designed very well and the rifle is fairly heavy so recoil with 500 grain factory ammunition is "manageable". That said, I wouldn't mind a lighter recoiling round that shoots well. From what I have read and heard, the old 450 NE delivers a 480 grain pill at about 2150 and stops whatever it hits and recoils quite politely for its size and power. That sounds like a nice prescription to me, if reproducible in an accurate 458 Lott reload. I am thinking of making up a batch of 480 grain Woodleighs at 2150ish and seeing how they shoot form my rifle. Any suggestions on powders/loads?

Also, has anyone experience with the Northfork 450 grain rounds out of a 458 Lott on buffalo? Is there a load that is popular with this bullet from a 458 Lott that could be recommended?

I am planning to lug the 458 Lott because I want something that hits buff harder than a 375 H&H. I don't want to lighten it up to the point where it looses what it brings to the table, but I am not sure that I need more hitting power than the old 45 cal intros either.

Thanks all, Mike
 

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I would suggest sticking with the 500 grain, however you can download to about 2150 feet per second, nothing more needed. This will lighten the recoil sufficiently. No pressure problems, just practice enough and get used to the "kick".
 

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I am busy with a similar project , I am busy testing the Barnes 350g , I will watch the thread
 

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Put a good recoil pad on the Lott and go for it! Remember recoil isn't felt when your standing in front of a 40" Cape Buffalo.
 

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Ok, I learned a lot from you folks on a similar post regarding 300 WM for plains game. I will also be hunting buffalo this fall in SA. I am bringing a customized CZ 550 458 Lott. The stock is designed very well and the rifle is fairly heavy so recoil with 500 grain factory ammunition is "manageable". That said, I wouldn't mind a lighter recoiling round that shoots well. From what I have read and heard, the old 450 NE delivers a 480 grain pill at about 2150 and stops whatever it hits and recoils quite politely for its size and power. That sounds like a nice prescription to me, if reproducible in an accurate 458 Lott reload. I am thinking of making up a batch of 480 grain Woodleighs at 2150ish and seeing how they shoot form my rifle. Any suggestions on powders/loads?

Also, has anyone experience with the Northfork 450 grain rounds out of a 458 Lott on buffalo? Is there a load that is popular with this bullet from a 458 Lott that could be recommended?

I am planning to lug the 458 Lott because I want something that hits buff harder than a 375 H&H. I don't want to lighten it up to the point where it looses what it brings to the table, but I am not sure that I need more hitting power than the old 45 cal intros either.

Thanks all, Mike


Hi Mike,

I only load my .458 Lott (also a custom rifle made up on a CZ 550 action - great minds think alike) to the old .450 NE ballistics, as you are thinking of doing.
Recoil, although not "light", is less punishing than the factory ballistics are.
If you find the 500 grainers tolerable at a bit over 2100+ fps, then I would stick with that load, as Paw Print Safaris already mentioned.

However, if you still want to reduce recoil further, Swift A-Frame .458 bullets are available in 450 grain.
HOWEVER, I would only plan to use them for buffalo after discussing it thoroughly with the specific PH you plan to hunt buffalo with.
Last but not least, I used to own a .450 No2 NE double that regulated extremely well with 480 gr Hornady DGX and DGS bullets at only 2050 fps (shot through a chronograph).
So, that is what I used to shoot the only buffalo that I have taken so far (shown in my avatar and in my photos on this forum).
It worked extremely well (recovered bullet shown in my photos / photo section of this forum).

Incidentally and surprisingly, Woodleighs did not regulate near as well as the mentioned Hornady bullets did but in a bolt rifle, that should not be an issue as they are usually waaaay easier to make shoot straight than doubles are.
Woodleighs were what I expected to use in that 100 year old double but the rifle just did not agree with me, no matter what primer, powder weights and brands I tried under the Woodleighs.
Kind of a shame because the Woodleighs are an excellent bonded design that reportedly perform extremely well on game, within the old fashioned / days of early Cordite/Axite/Rifleite powder velocities that they were designed around.
I am just a relative beginner to Africa so, take what I say with a pinch of salt.
With the salt - even though the Swift A-Frame is a much tougher soft than the Woodleigh, nonetheless I would not hesitate to use Woodleighs in Africa, provided appropriate calibers and weights for the game I was after, and at the velocities that Woodleigh intended for their bullets.

The .458 Lott is about the only cartridge introduced over about the last 40 years or so that made any sense to me, and it is both puzzling and a shame that, Winchester did not introduce something like it, instead of their short version in the first place.
The shorty Winchester version is "up to speed" now, due to recent powder advancements in performance but, even with these newer powders, the Lott version is probably a better rifle to own for Africa, because you can use either cartridge in a Lott chamber if you absolutely had to.

Cheers,
Paul (V. Dog).
 
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Kudurifle

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Hi Mike,

I only load my .458 Lott (also a custom rifle made up on a CZ 550 action - great minds think alike) to the old .450 NE ballistics, as you are thinking of doing.
Recoil, although not "light", is less punishing than the factory ballistics are.
If you find the 500 grainers tolerable at a bit over 2100+ fps, then I would stick with that load, as Paw Print Safaris already mentioned.

However, if you still want to reduce recoil further, Swift A-Frame .458 bullets are available in 450 grain.
HOWEVER, I would only plan to use them for buffalo after discussing it thoroughly with the specific PH you plan to hunt buffalo with.
Last but not least, I used to own a .450 No2 NE double that regulated extremely well with 480 gr Hornady DGX and DGS bullets at only 2050 fps (shot through a chronograph).
So, that is what I used to shoot the only buffalo that I have taken so far (shown in my avatar and in my photos on this forum).
It worked extremely well (recovered bullet shown in my photos / photo section of this forum).

Incidentally and surprisingly, Woodleighs did not regulate near as well as the mentioned Hornady bullets did but in a bolt rifle, that should not be an issue as they are usually waaaay easier to make shoot straight than doubles are.
Woodleighs were what I expected to use in that 100 year old double but the rifle just did not agree with me, no matter what primer, powder weights and brands I tried under the Woodleighs.
Kind of a shame because the Woodleighs are an excellent bonded design that reportedly perform extremely well on game, within the old fashioned / days of early Cordite/Axite/Rifleite powder velocities that they were designed around.
I am just a relative beginner to Africa so, take what I say with a pinch of salt.
With the salt - even though the Swift A-Frame is a much tougher soft than the Woodleigh, nonetheless I would not hesitate to use Woodleighs in Africa, provided appropriate calibers and weights for the game I was after, and at the velocities that Woodleigh intended for their bullets.

The .458 Lott is about the only cartridge introduced over about the last 40 years or so that made any sense to me, and it is both puzzling and a shame that, Winchester did not introduce something like it, instead of their short version in the first place.
The shorty Winchester version is "up to speed" now, due to recent powder advancements in performance but, even with these newer powders, the Lott version is probably a better rifle to own for Africa, because you can use either cartridge in a Lott chamber if you absolutely had to.

Cheers,
Paul (V. Dog).

Thanks, V. Dog. Great stuff. I am interested in hearing some feedback from the field on the North Fork or one of the other new "super" rounds in lighter than 500, but I like your thinking. I won't do anything my PH doesn't agree with. I am sure the 500's at 2100-2200 will be very manageable and similar to the 458 Win Mag which I shoot w/o issue. Probably the way to go.
 

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You can read a bit about NF performance here:

http://www.africahunting.com/threads/505-gibbs-load-suggestion.16762/#post-137607

It's regarding the 505 Gibbs, but still I think it's relevant.

Remember the 500gr bullets in the .458 caliber were about in the end having that much more momentum by virtue of having as much mass as possible. Lighter and faster will have more energy, but heavier and slower will give more momentum. Momentum however is a vector quantity, meaning it has direction. More momentum, more penetration.

But the 500gr bullets of old did not retain their weight. As weight is shed and the bullet mushrooms, both momentum and it's related sectional density drop off quickly. With the high weight retaining bullets now available this is not so much the case. As such, I would not hesitate to shoot a 450gr bullet so long as it was an A-Frame or a NF. Now of course if you shoot higher weights in these bullets you're just getting that much more of a good thing. But again a 450gr bullet retaining 90% or more of it's weight is a better solution in my opinion than a 500gr bullet retaining 60% or less of it's weight.
 

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Put a good recoil pad on the Lott and go for it! Remember recoil isn't felt when your standing in front of a 40" Cape Buffalo.
EXACTLY.... I had to shoot rapid fire with my 458WM at a charging cow elephant and did not feel ONE of the 6 x shots I eventually let fly. ( last 2 x shots were insurance shots ) ADRENALINE works wonders in the bush!!!!
 

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Recoil is the last thing to worry about during an elephant attack...:eek:
 

matt85

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some really good advice has been given here!

if you must reduce recoil to the utmost low then a 480gr bullet at 2050fps will get the job done as it has for over a hundred years with the 450 NE.

however, i prefer Pieter's advice:
I would suggest sticking with the 500 grain, however you can download to about 2150 feet per second, nothing more needed. This will lighten the recoil sufficiently. No pressure problems, just practice enough and get used to the "kick".

a 500gr .458" pill at 2150fps will give you plenty of power and penetration with fairly mild recoil in a proper rifle. im not sure how much your CZ weighs but if its under 10 pounds then i suggest adding some weight to the stock.

another trick is too fire a bigger gun... this will make your 458 Lott feel like it has less recoil. this sounds funny but it really does work! ever since i broke the 6000 ft/lb energy mark with big bores most of the 40 caliber cartridges shoot like 30-06's. pay me a visit some time and your 458 Lott will be forever easier to shoot regardless of your load.

-matt
 
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JacquesVR

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I load 450Grn Barnes TSX & Banded Solids for the Lott - not too concerned about recoil to be honest but it does give the ability to "Stretch the Lott's legs" a bit away from just being a stopper/ DG rifle (I have hunted Eland , Impala, Warthog & Duiker (Solids worked a charm) with the Lott without issue and as I eat what I hunt the meat damage was minimal. Cannot comment on load though as I am bound to using South African propellant which is ......well what it is , but it could be a viable option if you want to go lighter (The 450 Barnes that is) . Would fully agree that if you are walking after Buff or Ele - Stick to 500grn's , they are recommended for a reason :)
 

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