45-70 for RSA?

[sgt_zim]

I am reasonably certain that saving the big 5, there is nothing on earth I could not kill humanely and quickly with either of the 2 bullets on the right, coming out just north of 1600 fps, out to 200 yards.

I have totally given up on the gummy tip a bit further to the left, even for deer and pigs. There are few enough jacketed bullets capable of expanding at "normal" 45-70 velocities (or come apart, a la the gummy tip), therefore, I see no reason to spend that kind of money on that kind of bullet, when I know exactly how these 2 behemoths on the right will behave. Straight line penetration is exceptional, and they are hard enough so as not to deform much, and soft enough to not be brittle like many high BH alloys tend to be. This is a proprietary alloy, very similar to Buffalo Bore and Garrett Cartridges.

would I shoot wheel weights at a kudu? Hell, I wouldn't shoot wheel weights at a white tail deer.

and at 50 yards (aperture sights, back before my eyes started getting old), hard to beat this kind of accuracy

Is it ideal? Depends.

For the bushveld, it will work at those distances as well as anything; for more open country like much of Namibia, not so much.

Certainly always stay within the capabilities of a cartridge, but this fella is more capable than some folks seem to appreciate.

Certainly not trying to stir the pot or make out like 45-70 is something other than what it is. But what it is is potent, with the right loads, quite a bit further than most realize.

 

[spike.t]

Here most shots inside 200...mostly closer....so with the bush we can be lot closer...love iron sights...

 

[crs]

Sgt Zim
All of us are more comfortable with rifles and ammo with which we are familiar and I think that is partly the cause of reluctance to sanction the use of guns and ammo which is new to us.
I see this in spades WRT lever action rifles and strange "new" cartridges like the .45-90 aka .458 2.4 with 90%+ then capacity of the .458 Win Mag! The game cares not about the source of the 450 grain solid that just shot through it! Neither should we!
All Human Nature.

 

[crs]

Sgt Zim,
One thing we learned from our BULLET TESTS IN Africa was that cast bullets deviated their course more than Monometal bullets such as North Fork, Punch, etc.
The premium 450 grain Kodiak shot through all but ele heads where they expanded and stopped short of the brain-- stunned the Ele but did not kill it. Our findings were - nothing but proper solids for frontal brain shots on ele.

 

[sgt_zim]

Here most shots inside 200...mostly closer....so with the bush we can be lot closer...love iron sights...

I love iron sights, too. My eyes are just not good enough anymore to use them. I put the scope on my 45-70 midway through deer season last year because I had a bad miss with the aperture about 20 or 30 minutes before dark. Maybe the Congo and Brazil have denser stands of hardwoods than we have, but not by much.

FTR, that target I posted earlier was taken at the same distance as this buck I so badly missed. Akshully the buck might have been 5 or 10 yards closer.

 

[sgt_zim]

Sgt Zim,
One thing we learned from our BULLET TESTS IN Africa was that cast bullets deviated their course more than Monometal bullets such as North Fork, Punch, etc.
The premium 450 grain Kodiak shot through all but ele heads where they expanded and stopped short of the brain-- stunned the Ele but did not kill it. Our findings were - nothing but proper solids for frontal brain shots on ele.

If I were hunting ele, it would definitely be with something in the neighborhood of a 458 Lott or 470 NE, not a 45-70.

Under the right circumstances and with the right guide, I might consider it for buffalo. I save my sniping for the 1000 yard lane at the range where I shoot. I could live a with bad hit from 800 yards on a 2 legged varmint that needed shooting, but not a 4 legged one. They deserve better.

The only real long range caliber I own is 280 AI. All of my other ones (except my target 308, but at 13#, a bit much to carry hunting) are for wet work, close enough even my eyes can see lung blood getting vented out both sides.

I'm a big fan of 25-50 yard shots under most circumstances.

 

[Sabattiboy]

I've put north of 3000 rounds through my 300 WM with two barrels at 100 to 1360 yards. Once at 1868 yards but no hits in a tornado shifting wind. I am confident I would be ready with any caliber I shot that much.
No one ever posted data for how many bison were wounded by 45-70 or any other cartridge used to collect robes and tongues. No one cared back then. In Africa it might come down to one shot in the limited days of the booked hunt. If I was mainly wanting to use my grandpa's old rifle and was willing to accept that I might not even get a shot with it because of limitations I still would do it.

I've said I would need 60 days for a Cape Buffalo hunt. Not for a one of a kind trophy but because it would take me that long to eat it.

 

[shark_za]

In most of the places I hunt in Limpopo the 45-70 can and has taken Kudu and Wildebeest quite cleanly and ethically. By me for one.
From Winchester 350gr factory HP's to hot handloads with 360gr Rhino Solid Shanks.
Sable seem to stand still a lot and Kudu are big enough targets at all ranges you will see them in the thick bush.
If I was hunting E-Cape I would bring something else but a 45-70 within 150m is perfect for bushveld game.

 

[sgt_zim]

I've put north of 3000 rounds through my 300 WM with two barrels at 100 to 1360 yards. Once at 1868 yards but no hits in a tornado shifting wind. I am confident I would be ready with any caliber I shot that much.
No one ever posted data for how many bison were wounded by 45-70 or any other cartridge used to collect robes and tongues. No one cared back then. In Africa it might come down to one shot in the limited days of the booked hunt. If I was mainly wanting to use my grandpa's old rifle and was willing to accept that I might not even get a shot with it because of limitations I still would do it.

I've said I would need 60 days for a Cape Buffalo hunt. Not for a one of a kind trophy but because it would take me that long to eat it.

I've probably put 700-800 through my 45-70, about to be on my 6th reloading of the first brass I bought for LD in 45-70. That's mostly 405 gr Missouri Bullet Company 405 gr, but those are same POA/POI as the 425 and 525 grainers I use for hunting.

 

[Mountain Man]

45-70 325 grain. Velocity 2050 (FPS) Energy 3032 (ft/lb)

I really have to lol at the nay sayers . I hunted with a 30-06 last time. and it did quite nice. I am sure some of you will say just lucky.
2800 (FPS) Energy 2500 (ft/lb)

So no doing research I find the only thing is the round is slower 500 (FPS) You still cannot duck that
The increased energy seems well orth the slower bullet.

 

[Red Leg]

45-70 325 grain. Velocity 2050 (FPS) Energy 3032 (ft/lb)

I really have to lol at the nay sayers . I hunted with a 30-06 last time. and it did quite nice. I am sure some of you will say just lucky.
2800 (FPS) Energy 2500 (ft/lb)

So no doing research I find the only thing is the round is slower 500 (FPS) You still cannot duck that
The increased energy seems well orth the slower bullet.

And with a SD like a salad plate (unlike your 30-06). In my experience, we rarely shoot game animals at the muzzle. At 200 yards with the 325 gr bullet (with a BC of .230 ) the 45/70 will have to compensate for 10+ inches of drop and retains only 1500 FPs of energy. At the same distance a 150 gr 30-06 round (BC of .387) drops 3 inches and still delivers 2100 FPs of energy. And the .300+ SD of the '06 will insure much greater penetration assuming a well constructed bullet. And that is the 150 gr loading.

Look, if for nostalgia reasons someone wants to use a 45/70 then fine. But like all those hunters and the US military quickly discovered at the turn of the last century, significantly better things were in the offing.

 

[Frederik]

My little experience with the 45/70 had a swedish client built himalef a double in 45/70 with a side by side shoutgun. Groupings were not great but the first shot out of the first barrel was sighted in with an Aimpoint.

Struggled to get close enough to game in bushveld environment luck has a big part in it. Finally got a shot a a blue wildebeest at close range. Shot placment was not good and 3 hours later finally found the beest with little blood trail.

Then a south african hunter wanted to hunt buffalo with his 45/70 and instead of using conventional bullets he got 350gr monolithic flat nose cup bullets made.

Suddenly with a proper scope it was much more flatter shooting and had a bullet that could penetrate 2 shots 1 was insutance and he had his buffalo bull.

So my advise if your bent on bringing the 45/50 for the game you seek get a mono bullet in 300 or 350gr push up the speed and make sure you will be hitting a 6" target at 200 meters with a scope on it.
Limiting yourself on a first hunt is frustating for both the client and the PH especially on a first trip.

 

[Mountain Man]

Well folks, you can do math and do math the proof is in the pudding as they say. 100 yards on a sable dead on the ground in 30 yards.
Took a huge Eland last night holding dead on at 175 yards. He went down in 40 yards..

 

[sgt_zim]

Well folks, you can do math and do math the proof is in the pudding as they say. 100 yards on a sable dead on the ground in 30 yards.
Took a huge Eland last night holding dead on at 175 yards. He went down in 40 yards..

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Very nice!

What bullets are you shooting?

 

[Tanks]

...
Also are night vision devices allowed for small game? I have a 17hmr setup for coyotes and bobcats using electronic calls..
Are electronic calls allowed?

Just shoot with a regular scope on a night of full moon. It is very clear to see and aim. Schedule your hunt according to the phase of the moon if you want to do it.

 

[375Fox]

Well folks, you can do math and do math the proof is in the pudding as they say. 100 yards on a sable dead on the ground in 30 yards.
Took a huge Eland last night holding dead on at 175 yards. He went down in 40 yards..

View attachment 424686View attachment 424687

Congratulations on success with your 45/70. What ranges had you practiced at prior to going on your trip?

 

[TOBY458]

Well folks, you can do math and do math the proof is in the pudding as they say. 100 yards on a sable dead on the ground in 30 yards.
Took a huge Eland last night holding dead on at 175 yards. He went down in 40 yards..

View attachment 424686View attachment 424687

What load were you shooting?

 

[Hunter4752001]

I took Impala, Bushbuck and Kudu using a revolver in 454 Casull. The load was a 300 g Hornady XTP MAG at 1500 fps. Think of it as the 45/70's little brother. The revolver was zeroed for 75M. My planning distance was to limit shots to 100M but I knew the amount of drop out to 150. The Kudu was taken at 139yds (measured by the PH's rangefinder). He went down within 7 meters with a shot through the aorta. No projectiles were recovered from any of the animals, all shots were complete pass throughs.

I wouldn't worry about using your 45/70 for plains game. If the casull can do it, the 45/70 can do it in spades. Stalking into range, knowing your trajectory, knowing your limitations, passing up on marginal shots etc - its what hunting is about. Enjoy.

 

[crs]

Good show Mountain Man!

Recognize this old rifle with 96% the case capacity of the .458 Win Mag and firing 450 grain solids at 2150 fps? Shoots through buff and Elephant heads. Not bad for a cowboy gun, eh?

I heard all the same BS before the bullet testing Safari, but no one can ignore the fact that it did the job.

I have since been over with another Cowboy gun and took the buff to the left. First shot through the heart with a 400 grain Woodie and then another Woodie to the pelvis to drop it before the brush.

Darn those out of date Cowboy guns anyhow!
My 1895 will get two updates for Christmas;
1. Magnaport
2. Sling swivel soldered onto barrel 4 inches forward of the fore end.

I now have 400 grain loads up to 2150 fps to justify the Magnaport job.
I am sure I can speed up the 300 grain loads from 2250 fps to at least 2400 fps, but with my new supply of North Fork bullets, who needs the added speed? This old gun has become my favorite big bore stalking rifle!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I am reasonably certain that saving the big 5, there is nothing on earth I could not kill humanely and quickly with either of the 2 bullets on the right, coming out just north of 1600 fps, out to 200 yards.

I have totally given up on the gummy tip a bit further to the left, even for deer and pigs. There are few enough jacketed bullets capable of expanding at "normal" 45-70 velocities (or come apart, a la the gummy tip), therefore, I see no reason to spend that kind of money on that kind of bullet, when I know exactly how these 2 behemoths on the right will behave. Straight line penetration is exceptional, and they are hard enough so as not to deform much, and soft enough to not be brittle like many high BH alloys tend to be. This is a proprietary alloy, very similar to Buffalo Bore and Garrett Cartridges.


View attachment 419683

would I shoot wheel weights at a kudu? Hell, I wouldn't shoot wheel weights at a white tail deer.

and at 50 yards (aperture sights, back before my eyes started getting old), hard to beat this kind of accuracy

View attachment 419684

Is it ideal? Depends.

For the bushveld, it will work at those distances as well as anything; for more open country like much of Namibia, not so much.

Certainly always stay within the capabilities of a cartridge, but this fella is more capable than some folks seem to appreciate.

Certainly not trying to stir the pot or make out like 45-70 is something other than what it is. But what it is is potent, with the right loads, quite a bit further than most realize.

@sgt zim
The 45-70 like a lot of old cartridges when able to loaded to potential they are a different kettle of fish.
Is the 45-70 the best cartridge for pg, probably not. Will it do the job, definitely. Would I use it yes, I was going to take my 444 marlin to Namibia before I built my whelen. My mate still wants to hunt Namibia with his 444 and 280gn Woodleigh RNSPs at 2,200 or 280gn AFrames.
Used within its limits I would say yes.
Bob