400 H&H magnum. Any thoughts?

[Hunter4752001]

I think you need to revisit your assumptions on action length requirements. The loaded length for .400 H&H is actualy longer than the 404J (OAL 3.550" vs 3.530"). A Magnum length action would be preferred. Aside from that I agree that it's a great cartridge. Had it been invented 100 years ago it would have been one of the go to rounds of all time. These days its a great cartridge in a market full of great cartridges.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You stated the 400 gr. velocity was astonishing. Just wondering what you found astonishing.

The velocity at 2300+ fps is more than I would have expected for a cartridge and bullet that size. A 404J 400 gr bullet flying at 2350 fps is smoking fast out of a cartridge essentially the same length as 400 H&H (which is actually slightly shorter). I am curious how the case volumes compare for the two cartridges. Given that OAL of 404 and 400 are very close but 400 has considerably narrower shoulder, I'm thinking 400 must have less volume? But it still packs more gas/bullet weight.

I don't know the sectional density of 400 gr 404J @ mere 2150 fps but that cartridge/load has been killing really big animals very thoroughly for 120 years ... even with century old bullet technology.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I think you need to revisit your assumptions on action length requirements. The loaded length for .400 H&H is actualy longer than the 404J (OAL 3.550" vs 3.530"). A Magnum length action would be preferred. Aside from that I agree that it's a great cartridge. Had it been invented 100 years ago it would have been one of the go to rounds of all time. These days its a great cartridge in a market full of great cartridges.

You are correct. The 400 H&H's OAL is 0.02 longer than 404. I had it backwards. I just checked the clearance of standard OAL 404J cartridge ejected from my standard length Mauser. The bullet tip clears the forward end of receiver port by 0.122". 400 H&H of standard length should also easily clear the locking ring without modifying it.

I see no reason why magnum length action would be "preferable" for this cartridge. The bolt throw would be significantly longer than needed = greater chance of short stroking and jamming the rifle during a dangerous game charge. Magnum actions are also heavier and MUCH more expensive. So what's the advantage?

 

[Pheroze]

I shot a walrus at about 20 yards with those Swift A frames. They are very dense animals. The first clipped the spine and rested just under the skin on the far side. The second buried itself in the spine but did not exit the bone. So the cartridge was strong enough to kill this beast but not so strong as to punch right through and wound the other flubbery dude sitting with him on that chunk of artic ice. I was happy. And, very surprised that the second bullet did not go through the spine. From this experience I think it’s perfect for massive animals in herds like bovines or larger.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The velocity at 2300+ fps is more than I would have expected for a cartridge and bullet that size. A 404J 400 gr bullet flying at 2350 fps is smoking fast out of a cartridge essentially the same length as 400 H&H (which is actually slightly shorter). I am curious how the case volumes compare for the two cartridges. Given that OAL of 404 and 400 are very close but 400 has considerably narrower shoulder, I'm thinking 400 must have less volume? But it still packs more gas/bullet weight.

I don't know the sectional density of 400 gr 404J @ mere 2150 fps but that cartridge/load has been killing really big animals very thoroughly for 120 years ... even with century old bullet technology.

Edit: 404J also has a much longer case than 400 H&H. The latter must have less case volume but shooting out same weight 400 gr bullets faster than 404. Interesting.

 

[cajunchefray]

Edit: 404J also has a much longer case than 400 H&H. The latter must have less case volume but shooting out same weight 400 gr bullets faster than 404. Interesting.

Regarding your prior post, in checking the case capacities of the 400 H&H, 416 Rem and 404 Jeffery, this information is from Pierre van der Walt, African Dangerous Game Cartridges, copyright 2012:

400 H&H 99.3 grains (CIP)
416 Rem 107 grains (SAAMI)
404 Jeffery 113.3 grains (CIP)

After reading Mr. van der Walts chapter on the development of the 400 H&H and the 465 H&H, it reminds me of the marketing term in my industry (food product development) of the creation of Signature Products for the storied Holland and Holland name.

Mr. Russell Wilkins of H&H wanted to create a .40 caliber, as well as a .465 caliber, marketed under their own brand. A nice option for their buyers of a bespoke rifle.

The design of the 400 H&H is interesting, in that it has enough case taper, 8-degree shoulder angle and long neck similar to the 375 H&H. Sure, the case taper from the base to the neck is less but is enough.

It's interesting that Mr. van der Walts' son chose it for his work as an apprentice PH.

Just my .02 cents.