375 Bullets for backup on Buffalo?

[eugeneb]

Hi

Will be guiding some bowhunters in 2017 for aus water buff. Bought a sako kodiak 375 h&h purely for backup.

Would appreciate recommendations re "best" factory ammo for this purpose.

Like to hear from people that has taken or been around more than 10 buff/ele/hippo taken.

Thanks & regards
Eugene

 

[matt85]

Like to hear from people that has taken or been around more than 10 buff/ele/hippo taken.

seeing as im not experienced enough to give you advice...

here are two people i know have the experience off the top of my head:
@KMG Hunting Safaris
@HeinrichH

however, if my advice is good enough id suggest using ammunition that fires flat nosed monolithic solids. the top of my list would be Federal ammunition loaded with Woodleigh Hydrostatic solids. however i believe Swift now offers its own ammunition with their new sold which looks very interesting.

-matt

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@PaulT could offer an opinion from experience.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Hi Eugene,
Matt has hit the nail on the head. I would certainly go with the flatnose solids. The round nose solids has been around for years, before manufacturers developed the flat nose designs, so it does not mean that they won't work. The flat nose however is a better design.
The premium brands that he has mentioned will do the trick. If you are in Aus, Woodleigh would be the obvious choice. I only use them for softs, but they are a premium bullet so will get the job done. Even their SP bullet, is not as soft as everyone makes them out to be. Had a hunter take two Cape Buffalo bulls with then out of a 470NE. This is with the SP, and not the PP, which has the protected point. On both buff, he broke the near shoulder and the bullet was recovered under the skin on the opposite side.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

 

[sheephunterab]

The only issue I see with solids is that when the crap hits the fan, you don't want to be worried about pass throughs hitting other buffalo. I'd personally go with an expending mono metal. Still lots of penetration and bone breaking ability but less likely to pass through.

 

[eugeneb]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

Will give the woodleigh hydros a go.

Cheers/Groete
Eugene Brink

 

[HeinrichH]

seeing as im not experienced enough to give you advice...

here are two people i know have the experience off the top of my head:
@KMG Hunting Safaris
@HeinrichH

however, if my advice is good enough id suggest using ammunition that fires flat nosed monolithic solids. the top of my list would be Federal ammunition loaded with Woodleigh Hydrostatic solids. however i believe Swift now offers its own ammunition with their new sold which looks very interesting.

-matt

It all depends on the shot. In my 470 i have a swift A-Frame in my one barrel, and Dzombo flat nosed brass solid in the other. for charging buffalo, or if you can get a clear second shot in, the soft would be ideal, but for trying to get a shot off on a wounded buffalo through thick bush, or a running away angle, that is where you want your flat nosed solid.

 

[PaulT]

Hey there Eugene.

The best bullet in your .375 hinges a lot on your hunting style.

The great Simon Kyle-Little used a .375 as back-up for many years, and still does on occasion, but he will be the first to admit that if your "stopping-shot" isn't within an inch of the "bull's-eye" your in deep doo-doo !!!!

Simon is a very calm, and collected, hunter with several decades of guiding behind him and he still has some "incidents" whilst relying on a .375, I could tell you some very funny (they're funny NOW) stories involving Simon and his .375

If you hunt in close, insuring your clients are 75yds or less before the encounter is opened up on I will suggest that firstly;
# your client, if he is quick enough and remembers to shoot again, will most probably get in a crippling or finishing shot before you NEED to shoot.
# if the sequence occurs at 40yds or less with the first shot and the bull charges from there you will need a heavy for caliber (350gn) at moderate to slow velocity.

If you do choose to go the Woodleigh route I would recommend the Weldcores over the Hydrostatics.
The Hydrostatics will give excellent penetration for follow-up shots on fleeing animals, but for stopping an incoming you want to transfer as much hurt as you possibly can and that would be better achieved by a bullet that is going to deform AND penetrate.

I would look at loading the 350's at about 2200fps and load the rest of your magazine with Hydro's.

If you DO want to go the mono route let me suggest the Barnes T.S.X's.
Both Glenn Giffen and I have used them for many years and loaded to max velocity both the 300gn AND THE 270GN ARE AWESOME !!!!!
I would give the 270gn the nod over the 300gn especially for back-up where impact will be close. The more velocity you give the T.S.X's the better they will work for you.

In my 12 years in the game I was forced to have to stop quite a few determined full-blown frontal charges from wounded Buff AND Scrub bulls.
My main stopper for most of my career was a .458 Lott.
I stopped 6 charges in one season alone with the Lott and the closest any buff got to me or my clients was about 5 yds.
Later on I moved to a .50 cal wild-cat and they hardly took a step after being pummeled with that thing.

Regardless of the bullet you choose on a frontal charge you have two shooting lanes and with the .375 your effective killing zone will be a bull's-eye of about 3" max. If you're carrying a .458 Lott that effective killing bull's-eye will be expanded to about 6 - 8 ".
Doesn't sound like much but you get back to me after you have a season like I did where I had 6 separate charges in the one season.

By the way, Simon Kyle-Little is now using a 500-416 as his primary stopper !!

Best of luck and good hunting.

 

[eugeneb]

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

 

[IvW]

For factory ammo I would suggest Norma African PH loaded with 350 gr Woodleigh Weldcore softs.

For hand loads nothing beats Rhino Bonded solid shank expanding bullets in 380gr or 350gr. They open with 4 petals and expand to 2.5 times the original size and hold together very well.

Buffalo are tough but If you use Rhinos no need for solids, the softs are so good that they deliver more than enough energy and stopping ability than solids.

If the first shot is good anything shot with it will die. If the first shot was not placed well and the buff takes off, hitting the spine(just above the root of the tail) or any one of the hip bones which are clearly visible on a departing buffalo will pull up the brake very fast.

Since the advent of these premium softs that is all I use on buffalo.(I do however use a 500 Jeff for back up and not my 375 H&H). Coming or going away requires only one well placed shot to anchor any buffalo.

 

[spike.t]

I do however use a 500 Jeff for back up

what do you use in your 500 jeff?

 

[IvW]

what do you use in your 500 jeff?

Spike.t , I use 570 grn Rhino handloads (both the Solid base expanding bullet and the mono metal flat point solids). Solids for Elephant, rhino and hippo out of the water, al the rest the expanding bullet.

 

[spike.t]

Spike.t , I use 570 grn Rhino handloads (both the Solid base expanding bullet and the mono metal flat point solids). Solids for Elephant, rhino and hippo out of the water, al the rest the expanding bullet.

ok thanks. have only been able to get hold of 15 rnds kynoch woodleigh softs but the shop i use in lusaka is getting some norma ph in next shipment in `17 so will get some of that. cheers

 

[CAustin]

seeing as im not experienced enough to give you advice...

here are two people i know have the experience off the top of my head:
@KMG Hunting Safaris
@HeinrichH

however, if my advice is good enough id suggest using ammunition that fires flat nosed monolithic solids. the top of my list would be Federal ammunition loaded with Woodleigh Hydrostatic solids. however i believe Swift now offers its own ammunition with their new sold which looks very interesting.

-matt

Matt85 is dead on. Federal Premium Trophy. Bonded

 

[Rule 303]

seeing as im not experienced enough to give you advice...

here are two people i know have the experience off the top of my head:
@KMG Hunting Safaris
@HeinrichH

however, if my advice is good enough id suggest using ammunition that fires flat nosed monolithic solids. the top of my list would be Federal ammunition loaded with Woodleigh Hydrostatic solids. however i believe Swift now offers its own ammunition with their new sold which looks very interesting.

-matt

I have only hunted one Ele and Buff both taken with Woodleigh Hydros out of a 416 Rigby. However a mate has shot afew Aussie buff and a couple of cape Buff using 9.3X62 and 404J. Only used the Hydros and not a problem. The advantage of the Hydro is if any foliage, branches or small trees get in the way the shot will track straight through and not be deflected and still do the job. Well I have seen plenty of picks where this has happened. Hydros will not, on available evidence, be deflected by the frontal ribcage of a buff like other bullets can/do.

 

[eugeneb]

Some background ... Hunting is bow only, hence shooting distances between 15-40 yards. As stated before the rifle will be used for backup/safety and/or finishing an animal where appropriate.

Thanks for all your replies, appeciated.

 

[Bos Javanicus]

You're in OZ so I would suggest you use Woodies, the biggest one you can fit in your rifle and make it a solid....simple.

 

[Bos Javanicus]

I've shot Buff with Woody softs through scrub with no deflection problems with cals above .400. Even taking out 3" trees with a .404. The bullet may expand on the larger trees up to 3", but they don't deflect. As far as light scrub up to 2" just shoot straight through the stuff, it will get to its destination with absolute minimal deflection if it deflects at all.

 

[rookhawk]

The"best" backup ammo for a guide is very hard to find. It is Federal .375 with the woodleigh hydrostatic solid. It is a solid which is probably what you need if you're protecting a client and it makes the largest wound channel of any solid.

Out of stock globally. Rumor has it federal is doing a run in next 90 days or less. Buy it if you can find it!

 

[700xcr]

http://www.selwayarmory.com/norma-a...r-woodleigh-weldcore-soft-nose-box-of-10.html