.340 Weatherby Magnum

[bruce moulds]

what does an eland weigh?
bruce.

 

[Von S.]

Bruce,

A big male can weigh close to a ton.

Anyway....if a fella complains that it hurts him too much when he gets punched in the nose then he probably shouldn't make boxing a career or even a hobby. Whenever I see hear someone talking about how no one should do something because they say so it pretty much well means that they can't do whatever it is.

Is the 340 for everyone? Of course not and I wouldn't suggest that it is. I also won't insist that the 30-06 is for everyone either.

What Roy Weatherby did was give people a choice to shoot a little farther and hit a little harder and with there being no free lunches out there, of course it costs to get that.

 

[Ryan]

Personally, it's not my cup of tea and although my Father bought one thinking it would work out, watching him shoot it I'd say not so much. That said, in the right hands it has a fine reputation. If you are interested in one, can get a suppressor, and don't mind the added weight and length it could make a 340 Weatherby just about perfect for reaching out and really touching something. I say this after watching a guy at the local range shooting a suppressed 338 Lapua. Not the lightest rifle by any means, but the suppressor made all the difference for making it a great shooting hard thumping rifle.

 

[bruce moulds]

ok, a big eland weighs more than a camel, so the 340 should handle camels.
water buffalo who knows.
probably less than optimum, but swift has a bullet heavier than 250 gns as well.
some of the old brit 33 cals were held in respect, as was the 318 w.r., also a 33 cal.
if i do one it might well end up about 10 lb scoped, so a bit of mind over matter and focus on follow through will be in order.
as people say, no free lunches.
what i want is to drop things like a bag of sh*t that i shoot even with the less than perfect shots that happen in the real word.
the 9.3x64 does that now, but a longer p.b. range would be helpful.
to get this needs more speed, so to keep recoil similar, a lighter bullet would help.
luckily we can now get bullets that make littler calibres a bit bigger.
here in oz we are not allowed to have suppressors.
i had one once when legal on a 308, and it made shooting a different experience.
you hardly needed earmuffs.
if game had not seen you, hear or smelt you, they were confused as to where the shot came from.
culling mobs of goats was this gun's job.
bruce.

 

[ldmay375]

I have never owned one, but have shot one. A friend's rifle in a Mark V Weatherby. He used this and the old Barnes X, 225 grain to take a very large brown bear. I did not find the recoil objectionable in that rifle and those loads off the bench. It is certainly not like shooting a 30-06 and 150 grain bullets. But, it has been so long ago, I cannot quantify the difference against a 375 or 416.

I have been nearly mesmerized by the cartridge for decades, from Ross Seyfried's and Bog Hagel's writings. I even have a donor rifle for re-barrel and some 340 brass.
But, my hunting for larger game is about 200 yds maximum. And I cannot mentally justify it over the 338 Winchester. From the much reading / research that I have done on the cartridge, I would expect no more than 200 fps over a 338 Winchester, with equal barrel lengths. The Swift Reloading manual states expect about 100 fps per second more than the 338 Win.

It does offer more than a 338 Winchester. But, I am not convinced that has much benefit at the distances that I shoot. I usual use a 375 Ruger or 416 Ruger, or H&H and Remington cartridges.

If, I did not already have 338 Winchesters, and a favorite rifle in that cartridge, I am sure I would have a 340 Wby. The 338 Winchester has knocked the attraction off of several of my rifles in various cartridges.
One of these years, I may just do that re-barrel to 340.

what do we thik of this cartridge's capability with 250 gn aframes.
how close to , or how far behind is it to the 375 h&h on what weight animals.
it seems to offer an effective point blank range of 300 yds, but is this at the price of killing power.
how does recoil compare to the 375.
bruce.

 

[Luvthunt]

A big eland will weigh more then a Cape buffalo. In fact on one of the cattle ranch’s in Zim they had an eland bull in a corral. It was taller then the Brahmas bulls in the next corral. It also looked much heavier.
In Zim in the past I shot my first Eland bull with a 300 W. USED A 200 GR Swift AFrame. We weretracking a good Waterbuck so the 300. Ran into 5 Eland bulls and managed to get within 25/30 yds of them. Shot the best bull with a high lung shot to miss most of the shoulder and leg muscle mass. The 200 gr AFrame did not exit and left a large hematoma on the rib cage on the far side with a min breakage on a rib. Shot was a good double lung so animal went about 5oyds.
Would agree a 375 would be good Eland medicine.

 

[Von S.]

Like I said, a bull eland can go a ton.

A cape averages about 1000 pounds and a average milk cow will best that by about 500 pounds.

An average bush elephant goes about 13,000 pounds.

There is a reason why they make bigger more powerful rounds than the 375 and the 340, and 3 of those reasons have just been named.

Many times I have wondered just how many witless Bwana's would never return home if it weren't for pH' s and laws saying that you can't go after DG with a 220 swift?

The real question isn't if you can kill the animals listed above with a 340, of course you can, it really is will you perform it in a workman-like manner and my thought is that as the size, weight and speed decrease you better hope that your luck increases exponentially.

I am sure that there are many guys here who have taken big animals with the 375 who have made a clean kill with one shot. I'm also sure that there are some here who have made good shots and have chased and shot that animal again and again and again to eventually have to ground shoot it two more times as it just won't die. Is it just a fluke? No! Not really.

Get something bigger and more powerful to be sure.

 

[Luvthunt]

Von S,
IN the first two postings it was stated that the 340 is not for DG and I will add other then cats. It imo is a superb cat rifle with Nosler part but so is the 338 and many others.
Many people in the world of hunting do not have the opportunity to develope the comfort level need to accept the recoil of the African and now Australia hvy caliber rifles. For the most if you can use a 30-06 or a 300 with some practice a person can handle a 375. But the 40s and 45s calibers are in a different world. Moving up to the 50s is something that a person, in most cases, grew up with.
I find it interesting that in many cases people immediately bring up recoil when the caliber is a higher number. Not kinetic energy, killing criteria, trajectory, momentum or etc. Seldom is it a person of African desendency who bring up recoil. For me the reason is obvious, they grow up with the big stuff [guns and animals] and understand the need.

 

[Von S.]

Livthunt,

I can go long with that.....somewhat anyway.

"If" someone says that a 375 is a good DG round it would only stand to reason that they would sing the praises of the 223 as a great deer round as well. The same with the 340.

The first Eland I saw I said, " what the hell is that thing?" And the only thing the guy who looked like Dog in the Crocodile Dundee movie said it's good to eat and there' s lots of it.

And though it might not be considered DG it can still weigh a ton and it gets more respect from me than the noble Dik-Dik. Which believe I could train to be the new favorite pet of homosexuals world wide!

 

[Ryan]

ok, a big eland weighs more than a camel, so the 340 should handle camels.
water buffalo who knows.
probably less than optimum, but swift has a bullet heavier than 250 gns as well.
some of the old brit 33 cals were held in respect, as was the 318 w.r., also a 33 cal.
if i do one it might well end up about 10 lb scoped, so a bit of mind over matter and focus on follow through will be in order.
as people say, no free lunches.
what i want is to drop things like a bag of sh*t that i shoot even with the less than perfect shots that happen in the real word.
the 9.3x64 does that now, but a longer p.b. range would be helpful.
to get this needs more speed, so to keep recoil similar, a lighter bullet would help.
luckily we can now get bullets that make littler calibres a bit bigger.
here in oz we are not allowed to have suppressors.
i had one once when legal on a 308, and it made shooting a different experience.
you hardly needed earmuffs.
if game had not seen you, hear or smelt you, they were confused as to where the shot came from.
culling mobs of goats was this gun's job.
bruce.

For the species you mentioned in Australia the 340 will work very well. I wouldn't hesitate to say it'll drop an eland since I dropped one recently with a 300 WM with 180 grain bullets just fine. Incidentally, I live in Alaska where most moose (1200-1400 pounds still larger than camels in Australia) are dropped with a 30 cals of some sort just fine.

Without the option of suppressor I'd suggest a muzzle brake. I'm not going to bother arguing about recoil, everyone has a different threshhold. But decreasing it has never hurt anyone's accuracy especially on a follow up shot where you might need faster target acquistion. With the noise going sideways you won't gain any friends at the local range but if you're shooting all on your own, who cares.

 

[Luvthunt]

Bruce,
Great thread—thank you for starting

 

[bruce moulds]

first observation.
this cartridge seems to have polarized interest, and its value is in a specific limited area where other chamberings overlap.
at the top end, the 9,3 and 375 encroach, and at the bottom end the big 30 cals overlap.
the 30s shoot flat, and the 375s and 9.3s not so much.
and if you don't need the point blank range, the 338 win is good.
therefore the 340 is a specialized compromize.
in my situation, if ever i get to africa it will be plains game and possibly a buffalo.
guys report good kills on kudu with big 30s, so the 340 will do that job with good bullets.
buffalo might be a bit iffy, but the ability to not shoot inappropriate shots might get the job done, particularly with backup.
i had hoped the 340 might have a 200 fps advantage on the 338, with 250 gn bullets and this might not be the case.
all the other shooting i will do comes under the memory that bob penfold used a 340 as a guide on australian feral species.
more care would be required with bullet choice than bigger calibres, and luckily we now have good bullets.
barnes has some quite light bullets now that would add to the bottom end of the 340, and swift has one heavier than 250 gns.
many bullets can shoot long, but some of them will fail when shooting short. the above mentioned will do both.
a long shooting gun can shoot short, but a short shooting gun can't shoot long.
time to define long.
long to me is 300 yds, as opposed to what modern wannabe snipers call long.
the 340 has a point blank range of 300 yds.
and i still have a 9.3x64 which can fire a 300 gn swift at 2550.
this bullet has a sectional density well north 0f 0.3 and will penetrate.
shooting oz buffalo and scrub cattle in more scrubby conditions would probably dictate this at bottom end.
i did not realize how big an eland is - most impressive.
reading about moose hunting reveals that they seem to be easier to kill for their size than some animals.
bruce.
bruce.

 

[JimP]

The .340 is great kudu medicine. I shot mine at 479 yards with a 225 gr TTSX bullet and all he did was stagger a second before he dropped with a heart shot. The bullet was not recovered.

The one problem with the .340 is that it is not large enough for those countries that have caliber restrictions on DG such as buffalo where the .375 is minimum in most areas. Also trying to find a solid in this caliber is next to impossible. When I went on my safari I tried to find a solid but there were none to be found for reloading. I thought that a solid would be just the ticket for small game such as monkeys and the small antelope. I have a friend that went over a couple of years before I did and he had great success using a .375 H&H shooting solids on the smaller animals.

 

[Von S.]

Bruce,

People have killed many large animals with rounds and distances that they probably shouldn't have, but did anyway.

I do get a chuckle out of guys who call people who shoot longer than they do as " wannabe snipers", and then they themselves will not take a head or neck shot at a distance that they say they are comfortable with as their excuse is normally that it's too easy to miss even at 50 yards.

If someone can't hit a deer in the head at close range they most assureidly will miss the whole deer at 300.

I always use a highly accurate range finder and don't just do that point blank range or guestimation stuff as to do so a person is building a certain amount of inaccuracy into the shot they haven't even fired yet. I adjust the turrets as needed to assure that the bullet goes where it's supposed to.

A 300 yard shot is one hell of a shot to make with pin point accuracy. Anything farther than that , like 500 yards, and the rifle, ammo and man are something pretty special as most people cannot hit a 55 gallon consistently at that distance, let alone slam the right bullet into the vitals of anything. And by " vitals" I mean heart. And a man who can make kill shots at that range has practiced at that range.

Is the 340 a really deadly round? In the right rifle, in the right hands, with the right bullet, hitting game that it is sized for, why " hell yeah" and if what you hit doesn't stay down for some reason, keep blasting the living hell out of it till it does.

Best of luck.

 

[Von S.]

Jim P,

A 479 yard shot right through the heart deserves a tip of the hat.

 

[One Day...]

Hello Bruce (@bruce moulds);

A number of folks on this thread will tell you that I am a great fan of the .340 Wby and that I consider it the ideal one-rifle plains game safari choice, but that I do that with my two eyes open on the price that you have to pay for it (there ain't no free ride, right?). Let me try to list in bullet form a few thoughts coming to mind:

I have 30 years of experience with it and have owned two. One was a custom job by Griffin & Howe (https://www.africahunting.com/media...rno-602-action-damaged-during-handling.65928/) and the second one is a factory Mark V stainless. Seek the advise of those who actually own and shoot a .340 Wby, and do not worry too much about the discouragements provided by some who do not own one. Like with all things or people showing strong character (and the .340 Wby definitely shows strong character!), it is truly a love it or hate it type of situation. In the right hands, it works, and better than most any other caliber. Period. See https://www.africahunting.com/threa...faris-august-2018-plains-game-paradise.45017/ for my recent hunt report including 21 animals taken with the .340 Wby, from Eland to Steenbok.

It shoots faster, flatter, further and hits harder than virtually any other plains game caliber (the .338 RUM and .338 Lapua are its ballistic twins, so everything I say about the Wby also applies to them, and the .338/.378 Wby may (?) be 'a bridge too far' or 'too much of a good thing' for many of us). From a .340 Wby, a 250 gr. Nosler Partition launched at 2,940 fps will be +4" @ 100 yd; +5" @ 200 yd; 0 @ 300 yd; -11" @ 400 yd. This means that on game typically shot with the .340 Wby (elk/wildebeest and up), from 0 to 250 yd you hold the horizontal cross hair on the belly line and let the bullet climb into the heart, at 300 yd you aim dead center, and at 400 yd you hold the horizontal cross hair on the shoulder line and let the bullet drop into the lungs. Simple. Deadly. I fully agree with @Von S. that few can shoot well in the field, and off hands is very, very difficult past 100 yd, but there are also many opportunities to use improvised shooting rests in the field, from shooting sticks to trees, to boulders that will get you bench rest-solid, etc. so the ability to deliver devastating blows at 300 yd is really useful, and it helps to be able to anchor a fleeing wounded animal at 400 yd.

Because it launches a heavy bullet very fast, the .340 Wby 250 gr carries a lot of energy: 4,800 ft/lbs at the muzzle. This is about 20% more than the .375 H&H (3,950 ft/lbs). No, energy alone does not kill reliably every time - sometimes does, but not always - but it is a good indicator of the 'power' of a cartridge. The .340 Wby is a big hammer, no doubt about it.

Because it is a big hammer, it recoils significantly, and because the 250 gr bullet is launched fast, the recoil is fast too. With the .250 gr at 2,940 fps it generates 43 ft/lbs of free recoil in a 9 lb rifle. This is almost 3 times as much as a typical .270 Win 130 gr, and almost two times as much as a .300 Win Mag 150 gr. THIS is the big, bad, horror legend about the .340 Wby: supposedly, it recoils so much that it is impossible to shoot well. A number of us call BS on that...

Make no mistake: unless you have a serious experience shooting big guns, you will need to learn to shoot the .340 Wby (or the .338 RUM, or the .338 Lapua, or any of the .416, or any of the .458's etc.) and it will cost you about 100 rounds, after which you will either never want to touch it again (failed teaching), or you will shoot it as unconcernedly as most shoot a .270 (successful learning). The secrets are: 1) scope as far forward as mechanically possible; 2) proper position of the stock deep inside the shoulder pocket; 3) proper position of the face on the stock and reasonably erect neck (i.e. not crawling the stock); 4) bracing STRONGLY the rifle with both hands and pressing it rearward FIRMLY; 5) letting the entire upper body rock backward with the recoil. Wearing good earmuffs and wearing an extra thick shoulder recoil pad help during the learning. Shoot an open sighted .458 or .416 first a few times if you can, or a couple maximum load Turkey shells from a 12 gauge 3". The .340 will feel reasonable after that.

Do not seek a light rifle. Rifle weight is the primary factor in absorbing recoil. A typical Mark V with a typical scope weighs in at about 10 to 10 1/2 lbs. This is what you want. I would personally decline politely shooting a 6 3/4 lbs .340 Wby.

Do not get fixated on the .250 gr Nosler Partition. It is a great load, I have used it myself for 30 years, but keep two things in mind: 1) a 10% reduction in ejecta weight (bullet & powder) results in a 20% reduction of recoil; 2) the .250 gr Partition typically loose 30% of its weight in the first inch or so of penetration, so, in reality, only 175 gr of rear core do most of the penetration. I am personally moving away from the Partition in favor of mono-metals, and we recently had a great discussion on this forum about whether this allows us to drop bullet weight by up to 30%. In the same 10 1/2 lbs scoped-rifle that will kick back 36 ft/lbs of free recoil with a 250 gr Partition, a 225 gr TTSX will recoil 31 ft/lbs; a 210 gr, 30 ft/lbs and a 185 gr 28 ft/lbs. That is a 23% reduction in recoil for launching a 185 gr TTSX that will still be heavier than the 175 gr remaining off an originally 250 gr Partition... The drop of recoil is not linear with the drop of weight because the lighter loads added speed adds a bit of recoil. See https://www.africahunting.com/threa...mes-or-tsx-bullets-be-30-lighter.45537/page-2 for a very specific example of the .340 Wby 250 gr Nosler Partition on a 2,000 lb eland and for this discussion.

In summary, the .340 Wby is a specialized high-performance caliber that requires experience to shoot well, but a number of us shoot it well enough. I personally can coax mine into shooting cloverleaf at 100 yd, but I need to really concentrate hard on shooting form. 1" groups are fairly common. I therefore use it very successfully in the hunting fields, but, again, I need to pay close attention when I shoot it, which is the reason why I consider taking a lighter gun along for smaller game during a substantial Africa plains game safari. See https://www.africahunting.com/threa...00-lbs-antelopes-opinions-please.45286/page-2 for a discussion of supplementing the .340 Wby with a .257 Wby for an ideal do-it-all plains game battery.

As to Eland, yep the .340 Wby will kill it very dead, as it will anything that walks, but do not expect anything short of an artillery piece to slam on the ground a 2,000 lbs animal. There is a good reason why in the old days people with experience advised the .375 H&H for Eland. There is simply a lot of Eland to absorb whatever you are throwing at it. The .340 Wby is illegal for dangerous game in most African countries, but it would do (and has done) just fine on any cat with good expanding bullets ('softs'), and would have no issue on buff or elephant with either softs or solids. Heck, my little pinkie tells me that the .338 Win continues to do both quite successfully. Enough very experienced people have called the .340 Wby superior to the .375 H&H as a universal caliber, to consider it very seriously. Yeah it recoils a bit more, but this is because it hits harder than the .375 H&H and still flies flatter and hits further than a 7 Mag.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks
Pascal

 

[JimP]

Jim P,

A 479 yard shot right through the heart deserves a tip of the hat.

The interesting thing is that I was as calm as a cucumber. To make a long story short we had another smaller kudu that we were set up on but he laid down. I watched that kudu for close to 2 hours just going through every thing in my mind and taking practice shots at him, without pulling the trigger waiting for him to stand when the larger one came into view chasing some cows. I just moved the cross hairs and pulled the trigger without even thinking.

I wished that all hunting situations were like that and not the 20 seconds of panic followed up the excitement of the shot. But I don't know how much longer I could of sat there just watching the one that had laid down. I had two PH's with me that day. My personal one and the outfitter, who took a nap while I was watching.

Fun times.

 

[One Day...]

I will add two quick thoughts Bruce (@bruce moulds);

1- If you are familiar with the 9.3x64, then the .340 Wby will not be a big deal for you. They recoil about the same. Both personal experience with it in a Mauser 66 switch-barrels rifle, and the math, say so: .340 Wby in 10 1/2 lbs rifle shooting 250 gr = 36 ft/lbs of free recoil; and 9.3x64 shooting 286 gr in 9 lbs rifle = 36 ft/lbs too. Sorry for missing the fact that you have extensive 9.3x64 experience in my first read.

2- The bullet weight debates goes both way: a 250 gr A Frame that retains about 95% weight ought to perform similarly inside an animal as a 350 gr Partition that looses 30% in the first inch or so. That puts the 250 gr A Frame from a .340 Wby in a somewhat similar class to a light .416 load, all consideration of frontal area, energy, ballistic coefficient, sectional density, etc. duly considered.

I will personally shoot lighter mono-metal (225, 210, 185??? gr) bullets on plains game from my .340 Wby (with the Eland as a lone exception owing to sheer mass) because I have come to the conclusion that the accepted bullet weights (e.g. .250 gr .33 cal; 300 gr .375 cal; etc.) were derived from now obsolete bullet technologies; and I would be interested to witness enough kills to derive an opinion whether a 250 gr A Frame from a .340 Wby is as impressive, or more (?), on a buff as a 300 gr Partition, which had been the gold standard for the 50 years between its introduction and the introduction of the newer bullet technologies (bonded and mono-metals)....

 

[Von S.]

I do enjoy a good long range shot, because with me my " trophy" is the shot itself.

Anytime anyone takes out any animal at 300 yards or better it is most definitely time to rejoice as most people couldn't hit themselves in the ass with both hands when they are attempting kill shots at distance.

You and Pascal seem to have killing at great distance down pat.

As far as knocking down an animal that weighs a ton I am apt to reach for the 378 before the 340 no matter what the distance as a 300 grain bullet moving at 3000 fps delivers 3 tons of energy. Of course when you crack open the throttle on that and unleash one of those dogs off the chain it pretty much well ends all thoughts of anything hit with it from attempting to run away.

It somewhat kinda creates a " rod of God" kenetic energy weapon scenario when it hits.

 

[One Day...]

... It somewhat kinda creates a " rod of God" kenetic energy weapon scenario when it hits.

That, it does LOL !!!