Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by bruce moulds, Oct 4, 2018.
Well VON, can you tell me what your latest has to do with the OP. NO where do I see the number 340.
Lived in eastern Idaho back in the 9os and rode the back country frequently, mainly the Selway/Bitterroot, the Frank Church and the “BOB” IN Mt. A 44mag colt anaconda was my belt gun with my ubiquitous 870 as my saddle gun.There were not the wolf and grizz issues in those years as today. Had a tough little Border collie as my stock wrangler and night time watcher and she was capable. Got me out of the bag a few times with the mules also moving around but never had any issues.Owned a 460 SW for awhile but never tried a 500SW. Never carried the 340 on those trips.
AS you said did not fish from the raft but used it as transportation and carrier of our gear, remember those trips were 3 weeks long and once you were in you could not get out [except by chopper, no satellite phones] for 85 river miles.. Would move every few days to fish new water [river was 85 miles long] we waded. As the steelhead are migratory you could stand in one spot and fish fresh fish every day. There were 5 species of migratory fish in the river.But the change in scenery was desirable and kept the local bears a bit more honest.
Fished the Russian and the Copper and the Kenai?. And some smaller rivers in the Brooks for grayling. Used a lot of chartreuse and cerise flies but the Atlantic salmon flies also produced on Kodiak.Jim Teeny sinking heads type 6 if I remember.Brown head with orange running line.
The last year  on Kodiak, I had called the Native People in the village at the end of the trip to tell them we were coming and they let me know that the village was at half population due to lack of subsistence deer.they asked that we do what we could as we would be coming thru territory that was too far for them to walk. Our tags allowed us 5 deer piece so the 340 went to work and the skinning and boning knives were on the steel. We had to walk a good bit the last 20 river miles as the river was mostly gravel bars and between our gear and the meat we were already dragging the bottom. It was worth it, they had helped us in the prior 2 years.
I attached the last shooting I have for this gun. I was 2 weeks from Zim on Spots hunt and lost all confidence in it. I underlined my 340 shots 1-3 and have a nice pattern with 325 WSM all at 100 yards. Prior to this I had another target that was pretty shot up, but took to gunsmith and he glass bedded and torqued it all down. After he was finished put magnum bases and rings on it. He bored it and shot it and shot well the first shot and then started throwing like me. Waited about 45 minutes and it zeroed back. I took it home and shot the target below and said screw it so I picked up my 325 and shot pretty well. I don't know. Was unsuccessful in Zim so bought a 375 H&H for Zambia in December and it is a great shooting gun. I actually took the scope, bases and rings off the 340 and put on the 375 and has been a very reliable shooter. This is an inherited gun or I would have long seen it down the road, but since it is inherited I hate to give up on it. Appreciate your suggestions. I will bring back to the smith and see what he says. But your point on potential flinching is a valid one and no worries about any offense taken - I take all the advice I can get!
There are many nice people here who I wish I had more time so I could meet you all and go kill stuff with. My doctor after my day of damage is the one who got me into this chat room stuff as he said ya gotta keep them cells banging around. And for that I thank all the great people here for being nice to me!
I must say that even though I have killed more animals then most people deserve to I make absolutely no claims to being a hunter, now more than ever.
The idea of " stalking and walking" is most assuredly the best way to see animals if you're good at it, but should animals have guns they would most assuredly kill the majority of stalkers.
A good topographic map along with the smarts to know how people will be moving around and moving the game to you.An should you have the ability to conceal yourself to where a Raven will land on a branch next to you chances you'll be a winner.
If one really starts to look at the factory offerings of all Weatherby rounds you'll start to notce that the majority are loaded with lighter bullets. And that's not in any desire to create extra long range bullets,, but to create one hell of an explosive effect when it enters flesh and the 340 is no different. Are most animals killed at 500 yards or less? I would say so. Speed kills faster than weight.
Well, @ Von S. "them cells" definitely ARE "banging around." It is always a pleasure reading you.
Your .340 is likely fine...
@Hmaxwell, the groups you produce with the .325 definitely talk to your shooting form with decently powerful calibers. This is a good base to build from.
I have had my share of zeroing issues, and I have seen a lot more with bolt-action service-issued weapons, and generally there is a fairly easy path toward resolution when one follows step by step the logic of the situation. Here, the part that originally baffled me was:
If you had not written this, I would have likely concluded that 1) the bases are loose on the action; or 2) the rings are loose on the bases; or 3) the scope tube slides inside the rings.
This last actually happened to me, precisely with the Mark V .340 Wby, and it only resolved itself when the scope slid all the way forward and the rear bell shoulder locked itself against the rear ring. Because the scope is a Zeiss, the zoom adjustment is located behind the bell shoulder, so it is not an issue. It would not have worked with many American scopes where the zoom adjustment is ahead of the rear bell shoulder and would contact the rear ring. I just could not understand what was happening for the first 20 shots or so, that were landing all over the place at random, 3" to 4" away from each others, until all of a sudden the rifle started to shoot 1" groups. Only when I cleaned the gun back at home did I notice that the scope had moved 1/4" forward and the rear bell was now contacting the rear ring, and I instantly understood the logic of what took place.
Because you say that the gun zeroes back after 45 minutes, this cannot be a typical mechanical issue. This is why I was asking in my previous post something to the effect of: can you please confirm that the gun comes back into zero WITHOUT any scope adjustment? If such is the case, by process of elimination: it cannot be mechanical i.e. sights attachment related (because it resets itself); and it is not thermal related as understood in a normal sense (1 or even 5 shots are not enough to heat a functional barrel to the point of opening a group to 12" to 14" as you stated in your first post). Dang!
But then, I look at your target, and if I interpret it correctly, your 3 shot group is NOT 12" to 14". It appears to be roughly 2 1/4" x 3." So, this it essentially 3 MOA shooting a big gun at 100 yd. Now, THAT introduces DATA, and a whole new perspective to the discussion. If we are not discussing 12" to 14" as you initially reported, but 2" to 3", I will tell you candidly that I have seen (and I am sure @Von S. @Luvthunt and other folks on this thread have seen too) many, many shooters who could not hold 3 MOA with a .340 Wby (or a .416, or a .458, etc.) INITIALLY, even though they had experience with .300's or even .338's or .375's. It took me a fair amount of shooting with the .340 to get it to stay within 1 to 1.5 MOA, on a good day, and I do not overly worry if certain days it is 2 MOA. If you are comparatively new to it (say, less than 40 rounds shot), you are doing just fine. Keep shooting, I bet the groups will shrink. FYI, I have seen the same thing happen with folks, qualified shooters, transitioning from .300 Win Mag to .338 Lapua.
Depending on gun weight etc. your .340 likely recoils about 30% more with 250 gr bullets than your .325 does (~40 ft/lbs vs. ~30 ft/lbs), so this very likely has an impact on your groups. It also recoils about 10% faster than a .375 H&H. I am assuming that you have been shooting 250 gr bullets. Correct? If this is the case, my recommendation would be to load one box of 185 gr TTSX (or get one box from https://hendershots.net/product/340-weatherby-magnum-extreme-custom-ammo/) and shoot them carefully. They will recoil about 20% less than the 250 gr. I would not be overly surprised if your groups start shrinking.
Just my friendly, and hopefully useful (?), $0.02
PS: the fact that your gunsmith has the same results as you do is not necessarily telling, as he may not have a lot of experience shooting the .340.
Thank you @One Day. I am humbled and thankful for your reply. To clarify, this was the third target. The second target was throwing 12-14" shots 3-5. The third target was after I took to the gunsmith and had it rebedded, torqued and rescoped with Leupold VXIII 2.5-8, which I took off my 325. I was about 10 days from leaving for Zim and by the time I shot this again and it started throwing I had lost confidence in the rifle so I put it away and put the original .340 scope (Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40) on the 325 which shot very well. I was shooting 300g in my .375, and yes 250g in the .340. Maybe I need to pull the 340 out again and start over like you state with the 185g TTSX and see what happens. What I didn't mention at the beginning of this thread was my initial bullet and load workup, which I was very happy with. I have attached my initial target I shot when figuring the correct load etc. I loaded the 84 grain labeled 444 as the most consistent 3 shot pattern (these were in succession, probably 3 minutes between shots, but was overall shots 3, 4, and 5). It was after I reloaded the 84s that it started throwing after 1 shot. As you can see it was way better initially. I had another duplicate box I loaded at the same time as the test loads and shot most of those to no avail. If you interpret something from the target I am not seeing please let me know. I appreciate your comments and will go back and try the 185g idea. Much appreciated - thank you!
Hmm... Now you are introducing two new variables in the discussion: 1) if I understand you well you are shooting hand-loads; and 2) if I understand you well again, the gun has actually shot good groups, and is shooting consistently decent groups since it has been 'rebuilt'. As you are feeding the data one bit at a time LOL my analysis is evolving ;-)
Here is my read of your target:
group #4 seems to be a 0.75" x 0.25" 3 shot group, correct?
group #5 seems to be a 2"x 2.5" 5 shot group, correct?
group #6 seems to be a 1" x 3" 3 shot group, correct?
If my target read is correct, my interpretation of the situation is as follows: 1) if these 3 groups are loaded with different charges, it is totally normal that they do not land at the same point of impact; 2) there is likely nothing wrong with the gun, scope, mounts, etc.; 3) there is likely nothing fundamentally wrong with your shooting aside from the fact that you may need a bit more practice with the .340, which - again - is a normal learning curve we all went through.
Not knowing what were the variables involved with your second target, I do not have any comment on it or on the 12" to 14" fliers you reported, save to say that these appear to be obsolete anyway, and likely solved by the gunsmith rebuilding the gun. It would seem logical to think that if wild fliers disappeared after rebuilding the gun, there likely was a mechanical issue as I initially speculated...
My recommendation is that you now eliminate the hand-load variable for the time being and validate that both gun and shooter are performing. To do this I suggest that you shoot groups with factory ammunition of various weights. I would shoot 1 box each of Weatherby-loaded 250 gr NP and 225 gr TTSX, and Hendershots-loaded 185 gr TTSX. Weatherby factory ammo consistently shoots 1 MOA, so with the rebuilt gun it will be fascinating to see what kind of groups you get. I suggest shooting three 3-shot groups of 185 gr, then three 3-shot groups of 225 gr and three 3-shot groups of 250 gr, in that order, and record the group sizes. I would change target for each group (or at least change point of aim in the targets) and keep the targets. That would be 9 shots of 185 gr, 9 shots of 225 gr and 9 shots of 250 gr, i.e. 27 shots per session. Do this one weekend. Repeat the following weekend. Do not make ANY adjustment to the scope, screws, etc. (we do not care at this stage where the shots land as long as they land together). Shoot each group at a calm pace (1 or 2 minutes between shots), and let the barrel cool back to ambient temperature between each group. Walking 100 yd to change the target and back is also extremely effective in resting your body. Do not clean the barrel between shots or groups, or from one session to the next. Use the same bench set up for all the groups. Etc., we do not want to introduce any new variable.
My predictions are:
1) by the time you are done with 60 rounds, ALL your groups will be smaller than when you started.
2) 185 gr groups are likely in average to be smaller than .225 gr groups, and 225 gr groups are likely in average to be smaller than .250 gr groups.
3) your rebuilt rifle and you are likely able to deliver together 1 to 2 MOA, which is plenty good enough for hunting purposes with a .340 out to 400+ yd.
After that, you can go back to loads development, when you will know that the only variables at play are your loads.
The one caveat with these high-speed heavy calibers is that they really shake things up, so it is imperative to have your base screws secured with red-loctite and properly torqued. I personally have the action drilled for larger 8x40 screws and I keep a dot of temper proof paint on the base screws to verify that they do not move. Ring screws are also critical. If you have a scope that can contact the rear ring without compromising zoom function, I suggest you do it.
Let us know how things work. Based on what you told us so far, I am taking the bet everything will be fine
I'm so confused.....
Separate names with a comma.