1903 Mannlicher Help

Am I correct in assuming a Greek contract firing pin nut would fit? I was thinking of getting one and using it to have a peep sight fitted

Should fit fine, and good plan.
Others have done so.

The M1903 is a 'sporting version' of the Y1903, Y1903/14, Y1903 14/ 24, and 'System 1930' or vice - versa depending on perspective. Primary differences are bolt handle, stock and furniture, sights.

Y1903 and such:
MS Greek Mannlicher-Schoenaur Rifles and Carbines 02.jpg
 
So I got the rifle, and finally got two boxes of PPU 156 grain. I have to slam the bolt to get the rifle to feed, as the nose wants to jam in the feed ramp.

Has anyone else had a problem like this?
 
So I got the rifle, and finally got two boxes of PPU 156 grain. I have to slam the bolt to get the rifle to feed, as the nose wants to jam in the feed ramp.

Has anyone else had a problem like this?
My rifle behaves exactly the same with that factory loading.
 
My rifle behaves exactly the same with that factory loading.
Same with RWS? I didn’t feel like spending $120 for a box of ammo for such a small bore!
 
I would suggest that it is almost certainly due to some discrepancy in the bullet dimensions. I'd suggest that you have two options: (1) trying it with almost any other ammunition manufacturer. RWS is the one that I would choose, but any other good brand should do. (I'd avoid Kynoch, which has a Spitzer-type bullet which I think is simply designed to allow these rifles to used for red deer in Scotland by increasing the muzzle velocity to the legal minimum.) (2) Take it to a gunsmith and ask him to work out what is happening. You could try and work it out yourself by removing the magazine and seeing where the spindle is gripping the neck of the cartridge case and why it is not feeding properly.

Bottom line: PPU is not a particularly highly-rated ammunition manufacturer. So far as I can see, it is essentially a military ammunition manufacturer which has branched out into civilian production. (Incidentally, putting military ammunition through civilian rifles - such as a .308 - seems to lead to a loss of accuracy as military rounds are either made to a lower specification or annealed around the neck to allow them to be fired from machine-guns.) The Mannlicher-Schönauer is a thoroughbred; the action should be completely smooth, but it does demand cartridges made to precise dimensions.
 
First guess: Measure the cartridge overall length. Sounds like PPU may be a bit short.

Guessing on the Scotland thing: Not necessarily an increase in muzzle velocity, probably a measurement of energy at 100 meters. Typical European (certainly Germany and Poland, I am speculating on the rest) requirement is 1000 Joules at 100m. Given the same MV with a spitzer and round nose bullet, the spitzer will retain its velocity and therefore its energy as it goes downrange. Running off memory, the round nose 160 grain is at about 950 Joules at 100m. Using BC computations, the same MV and weight with a pointed bullet will be at about 1200 joules. A bump in MV with a lighter (140 g) spitzer bullet was also over 1000 Joules.

I'd have to go back and do the maths on the different bullets, I could be mis-remembering on the exact figures, but it's in that area. I remember playing with the Woodleigh Projected Point bullets for mine, but learned later my shoulder bump was too far back creating all kinds of pressure problems. Fixing that is on my "list". It's not urgent though, until Woodleigh is back in 100% production.

Norma once made a 140 grain bullet that both worked well, fed well, and retained energy. I really think the 160 grain PP will do better. We'll see.

Almost forgot: The RWS should be a bit longer, and will work well. That is a bit spendy, but you'll have the brass for reloading, and RWS is excellent brass.
 
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The slight shortness in length in some PPU ammunition has been a common cause of MS feeding issues. We need to remember that back in the day, these rifles were designed around a round nose bullet (typically 160 gr) and hand tuned to feed extremely well when the COL is correct.

That's not to say you can't shoot spitzers or semi-spitzer bullets out of it. You can, but it requires a bit of "load development" at the bench. This even goes for 160 gr round nose bullets from Hornady. Their stated COL is 2.970 but in all but one of my M1900 and M1903 rifles, cartridges of that length feed and shoot from fair to poorly. Thus, I load to a COL much closer to the old Eley and Kynoch loads (as posted by Brian above) to 3.00-3.05 COL. Even then, the throats of these old rifles are deep enough that my bullets are still "off the lands". The longer cartridges are quite accurate too and the pressure remains mild. As far as factory loads, offerings from RWS tend to feed (and shoot) much better in my experience. If you are less inclined to invest in reloading for your MS, then you will likely have much better success with RWS ammunition.
 
The slight shortness in length in some PPU ammunition has been a common cause of MS feeding issues. We need to remember that back in the day, these rifles were designed around a round nose bullet (typically 160 gr) and hand tuned to feed extremely well when the COL is correct.

That's not to say you can't shoot spitzers or semi-spitzer bullets out of it. You can, but it requires a bit of "load development" at the bench. This even goes for 160 gr round nose bullets from Hornady. Their stated COL is 2.970 but in all but one of my M1900 and M1903 rifles, cartridges of that length feed and shoot from fair to poorly. Thus, I load to a COL much closer to the old Eley and Kynoch loads (as posted by Brian above) to 3.00-3.05 COL. Even then, the throats of these old rifles are deep enough that my bullets are still "off the lands". The longer cartridges are quite accurate too and the pressure remains mild. As far as factory loads, offerings from RWS tend to feed (and shoot) much better in my experience. If you are less inclined to invest in reloading for your MS, then you will likely have much better success with RWS ammunition.
I will be back to reloading one I get some cabinets built and my equipment set up again.
 
I will be back to reloading one I get some cabinets built and my equipment set up again.


Reloading / handloading is the best option for shooters of MS in the proprietary chamberings of 6.5X54 (M1903), 9X56 (M1905), 8X56 (M1908), 9,5X57 (M1910).

To quote Matthias5662, "... these rifles were designed around a round nose bullet... and hand tuned to feed extremely well when the COL is correct."

To elaborate further, cartridges function in the Schoenauer magazine as bearings in a race. The clearances between magazine well, magazine rotor, and cartridge of proper profile and dimensions are precise and allow for little variance. When all dimensions of the cartridge are correct the MS feeds flawlessly. Any variance of size or shape, particularly at the top third of projectile, may allow the cartridge to shift its position and misalign.

The M1924 and later models had a 'guide ring' added to the magazine which allowed for greater flexibility of bullet profile as cartridges were guided at the shoulder rather than relying on precise match of profile throughout entire length of the cartridge.

There are a few custom loaders who produce accurately sized MS food. I don't know if live ammunition can be shipped from U.S. to Canada, but Reed's Ammunition and Research in Oklahoma makes proper loads of correct dimensions.
 
Well I took the rifle out for a few shots, and bad feeding aside, what an amazing rifle to shoot!

Well, that's it... there's no turning back.

For the rest of your natural life all rifles and carbines will be compared to the Mannlicher Schoenauer and few (if any) will measure up to it, particularly for 'snap shooting'.

Once you iron out the cartridge issues you'll appreciate her even more as they feed flawlessly when properly fed.
 
My paltry entry into MS rifles is an M72 in 7x64, bit of an odd duck, an amalgam of a couple of rifles, but I like it and it shoots very well.
Mine has the 25.5" barrel option that only the 7x64 had, obviously not a full stock rifle with that barrel!
IMG_2869.JPG
 
From what I can see in the two photos, this appears to be a Haenel-Mannlicher not an MS1903. The Schnabel fore end, barrel lug, octagon barrel, and receiver lug thru-bolt are classic of Haenels. There also appears to be "cheeks" on the stock but they have been sanded down with the refinish. Please see this article in Gun Digest by Terry Weiland: https://gundigest.com/gun-reviews/early-german-bolt-action-sporters-set-standard

In any case, you have yourself a beautiful rifle!
 

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From what I can see in the two photos, this appears to be a Haenel-Mannlicher not an MS1903. The Schnabel fore end, barrel lug, octagon barrel, and receiver lug thru-bolt are classic of Haenels. There also appears to be "cheeks" on the stock but they have been sanded down with the refinish. Please see this article in Gun Digest by Terry Weiland: https://gundigest.com/gun-reviews/early-german-bolt-action-sporters-set-standard

In any case, you have yourself a beautiful rifle!
What do you think this rifle would be worth in today’s market? I have no idea when it comes to these older rifle
 

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