Politics

wesheltonj said:

Of course not. It will be reviewed on appeal. Better?

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What do you think the odds of success on the appeal are? Do you think her reasoning was sound?

A lot of people around there thought the judge no longer has jurisdiction to deal with the case after the settlement was reached. That was clearly incorrect.

But long before the slush fund died a legal death, it died a political death. It was so toxic that even Republicans were not going to let it pass and Todd Blanche had to publically promise that it would not be implemented to get Congress moving again.

It was an ill considered/unethical program from day one.

cwpayton said:

While I believe slavery was a catalyst for the war between the states , and drummed up a lot of angst in the north, its hard for me to visualize any of my southern relatives owning slaves as most were barefoot and too poor to buy one , should they have had a need for one. Large plantation owners not so much. there was a strong sentiment for states rights and anti tax on cotton among other things. Its likely the same today if we were to have a redo of the civil war and history stated emphatically it was about abortion probably not really. while some Cherokee owned slaves it wasnt wide spread for them.
While religious zealots took up that mantle in the north, its a fact that the south was a very" bible belt" population itself.
And again Gen LEE said I must support my state, Virginia. That is my personal belief and will probably cause the war to be refought now on this forum. But I was born in Texas and my Mothers side from Georgia, sooo.

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You don’t think it’s possible for the wealthy landowners to whip all sorts of stories to get the less educated folk riled up in a frenzy to put their lives on the line? Rich men sending the poor off to fight for them is the oldest tale in history

Altitude sickness said:

It is easy to come to that conclusion when reading accounts of Sherman’s tactics in the South and Indian wars. But that is through the view of our modern lens.

Today he would most likely be charged as a war criminal. But every century has had its own warfare guard rails.

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I dont see that Sherman had any guard rails , burning crops ,stealing food ,stealing horses , burning down towns, it was more of a vindictive ' punishment" administered by him .

Aaron N said:

You don’t think it’s possible for the wealthy landowners to whip all sorts of stories to get the less educated folk riled up in a frenzy to put their lives on the line? Rich men sending the poor off to fight for them is the oldest tale in history

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Gen. LEE was neither poor or uneducated. and like I indicated in my post , putting food on the table and freedom was a prioity for the majority of the south. worrying about politics was a rich mans game and uneducated does not equal dumb by a long shot,

Did you all see this. Busted the poor guys femur in 4 places.

cwpayton said:

Gen. LEE was neither poor or uneducated.

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And hence he was leading the masses

cwpayton said:

I dont see that Sherman had any guard rails , burning crops ,stealing food ,stealing horses , burning down towns, it was more of a vindictive ' punishment" administered by him .

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His strategy was “pain” !

burn buildings, supply chains, infrastructure. It’s a solid strategy.

Most of Sherman’s detractors use examples of soldiers raping and killing women and children.

Sherman never gave those orders. And denied abiding those brutal actions of soldiers under his command.

Brent in Az said:

Did you all see this. Busted the poor guys femur in 4 places.

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The Bison was defiantly having a bad day.

The full video was posted yesterday before the media got ahold of it. The video posted by Fox does not show the portion between when the bison gets up and when it goes after grandpa.

There is a few seconds where the bison actually was going to take a run at a pickup that was driving between the bison and grandpa. When the pickup pulled away, grandpa still remained in the cross hairs and the bison made him a target of opportunity.

Brent in Az said:

Did you all see this. Busted the poor guys femur in 4 places.

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That guy could get a job at a rodeo, CLOWN.

Altitude sickness said:

t is easy to come to that conclusion when reading accounts of Sherman’s tactics in the South and Indian wars. But that is through the view of our modern lens.

Today he would most likely be charged as a war criminal. But every century has had its own warfare guard rails.

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You mean like those who ordered the bombing of Düsseldorf and participated in it?

The only people that seem to treat their soldiers like war criminals, even without evidence of any sort, seem to be the Australians.

Now, if the Confederates had won the war I am sure Sherman would have been tried and punished, just like the Japanese that were in command of "rape of Nanking" were tried and hung. History gets written by the victors.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Thank you for making my point. SS is the biggest scam to ever played on the American people. While I don't doubt it was started with good intentions, it turned into the biggest ponzi scheme of all time.

Imagine the average citizen being forced to invest their SS tax into a proper investment. For the average W2 employee where that amounts to 7.5% and their company matching that for a total of 15% of their salary, the situation FDR envisioned solving would easily be realized especially if those same employees were taking advantage of 401k accounts.

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Except that you have to remember that it's actually an insurance policy. And that current workers paying for current retires is how the system was setup in the first place. Plus it was set-up in the wake of the great depression. It took 25 years for the stock market to recover to pre-depression levels. 35 years to double that amount, and 54 to triple it. Trusting one's entire retirement savings/future to the stock market wasn't exactly a good idea back then. But hey, if it's such a ponzi scheme, then let's get rid of it. I'm sure the retired members of this forum would have no problem with that. And I would get a 6.2% pay increase. 7.65% if we get rid of medicare too.

Mekaniks said:

The Bison was defiantly having a bad day.

The full video was posted yesterday before the media got ahold of it. The video posted by Fox does not show the portion between when the bison gets up and when it goes after grandpa.

There is a few seconds where the bison actually was going to take a run at a pickup that was driving between the bison and grandpa. When the pickup pulled away, grandpa still remained in the cross hairs and the bison made him a target of opportunity.

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I saw the full video. The guy in the truck hit the gas when he saw that bull coming

Wheels said:

As I recall, the tariffs were for foreign imports but they affected the south greater than the north. ie: A farmer in South Carolina could buy a plow from Cleveland for $50 or a plow from Bristol for $40, shipping included. The tariffs would raise the cost of the Bristol plow to $60 forcing the South to buy from the north. (These numbers are made up and for purpose of example)

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Brent in Az said:

I saw the full video. The guy in the truck hit the gas when he saw that bull coming

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Yes he did! That Buff was not playing

Big_Easy said:

Except that you have to remember that it's actually an insurance policy. And that current workers paying for current retires is how the system was setup in the first place. Plus it was set-up in the wake of the great depression. It took 25 years for the stock market to recover to pre-depression levels. 35 years to double that amount, and 54 to triple it. Trusting one's entire retirement savings/future to the stock market wasn't exactly a good idea back then. But hey, if it's such a ponzi scheme, then let's get rid of it. I'm sure the retired members of this forum would have no problem with that. And I would get a 6.2% pay increase. 7.65% if we get rid of medicare too.

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Are you sure about that 6.2%??
If SS comes to end, something tells me that our government and employers are not just going to let that $$ go directly back into employees wages…. But of course that’s just my opinion…

Killingtime said:

Yes there was. Earlier tariffs disproportionately hit the south and helped the north. Then the morrill tariff passed in march of1861 which hit southern states even harder and I believe made more states secede. There were alot of reasons the south seceded. The problem with people saying it was only slavery is they ignore the fact that some people in New Jersey had slaves til 1865 or 66 and that several states that sided with the north kept slaves legally under the union law till 1865 hell the emancipation proclamation was 1863 and only affected people in the south not the north or boarder states. Pretty sure the wat kicked off in April of 61

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"Earlier tariffs disproportionately hit the south and helped the north. Then the morrill tariff passed in march of1861 which hit southern states even harder and I believe made more states secede."

No...Just No...VA, AR, TN and NC all succeeded after the attack on Fort Sumter, and Lincoln's Proclamation 80 on April 15th. All this tariff talk is more revisionist history.

cwpayton said:

While I believe slavery was a catalyst for the war between the states , and drummed up a lot of angst in the north, its hard for me to visualize any of my southern relatives owning slaves as most were barefoot and too poor to buy one , should they have had a need for one. Large plantation owners not so much. there was a strong sentiment for states rights and anti tax on cotton among other things. Its likely the same today if we were to have a redo of the civil war and history stated emphatically it was about abortion probably not really. while some Cherokee owned slaves it wasnt wide spread for them.
While religious zealots took up that mantle in the north, its a fact that the south was a very" bible belt" population itself.
And again Gen LEE said I must support my state, Virginia. That is my personal belief and will probably cause the war to be refought now on this forum. But I was born in Texas and my Mothers side from Georgia, sooo.

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"there was a strong sentiment for states rights"...Not in the south there wasn't. That was the whole point in the first few states succeeding. That northern states were in fact claiming "states rights" with regards to escaped and freed slaves from southern states. And the southern states wanted them returned. And without such a requirement against states rights, the state of SC would never have ratified the constitution in the first place.

"...In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof. The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.
The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States...."

Mekaniks said:

Yes he did! That Buff was not playing

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They were saying it's Buffalo mating season, and the bulls are pretty fired up.
I've spent many a day flyfishing in YNP, and I stay far away from the Buff.

Mekaniks said:

Are you sure about that 6.2%??
If SS comes to end, something tells me that our government and employers are not just going to let that $$ go directly back into employees wages…. But of course that’s just my opinion…

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I mean yeah, we may not. But maybe we shouldn't? We have a $1.8 Trillion deficit, and getting rid of the SSA would just about cover that amount. It would increase taxes on the poorest American's, which most people here historically seem to think would be a good thing, and it would also balance the budget. I think there are better ways to balance the budget, but desperate times call for desperate measures good sir.

wesheltonj said:

Of course not. It will be reviewed on appeal. Better?

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You need to read it. What's to appeal? Essentially a revelation of what was and, more importantly, was not done in defending the IRS from Trump's claim. His lawyers represented the plaintiffs and the Justice Dept was SUPPOSED to defend the claim on behalf of taxpayers (public). There was no judgement re the Weaponization Fund so there supposedly was nothing that can be appealed on our behalf (yes, I am a US citizen). And that is exactly why the Justice Dept settled. They wanted Trump's cash cow protected from appeal. Well, so they thought. Seems there was an appeal anyway ... to Congress (which would have to authorize payment) ... that is now on hold because Todd agreed the fund would not pay out. But he won't agree to it in writing ... probably because then Trump could find more lawyers to lodge another claim to get his money. And Trump is just goofy enough to try it even though his own party wants the whole stupid business to just go away. Fortunately, Congress controls Trump's purse strings and many of his GOP pals just couldn't screw on the partisan blinders for this one. Everyone in his administration knows how it goes when Trump carelessly throws shit into the fan ... it's their fault, not his. Then heads roll. I cannot IMAGINE how stressful it must be to be a part of this crazy administration. Rolaids factory must put on extra shifts.

This judge's decision was to inform the public what happened and report the whole lot of lawyers on both sides to appropriate bar associations for unethical behaviour. How comical would it be if the nation's Attorney General was subsequently disbarred? I'm guessing that would be a first.

Edit: A correction: the settlement was $1.776 billion. Got the decimal in wrong place.