22 or 6.5 Creedmore for Moose and Elk?

Many small caliber cartridges will kill an elk or moose, but there are much better choices.
 
Many small caliber cartridges will kill an elk or moose, but there are much better choices.

This is the common sentiment but so few who say it have actually done it.

The guys pushing the small caliber movement teach a shooting class and all agree that the increase in accuracy is worth the loss in horsepower. They all practice what they preach and hunt with small calibers since they feel the efficiveness of the small calibers within their effective ranges is optimal. With the big guns, they are far too destructive at moderate ranges. They only shoot the big guns for very long range hunting (800 + yards i believe).

Its an exercise in right-sizing the weapon for the application and i personally think they are probably right about all of it. Im not all in yet, but I can easily see myself getting there if my personal experience ends up mimicking theirs.

The part about shooting lighter recoil better is absolutely true for me. I got really good behind my .338 win mag, and definitely shoot my .223 better.
 
The scapula is pretty much the thinnest major bone in the body, if that bullet had hit the humerus it may have been a very different story!!
IMG_20250926_110054(1)(1).jpg
 
Shout out to our Creemore fans. QUESTION: Is a 6.5CM or a 22CM the ideal Elk hunting rifle? Do you use one to hunt big game? If so, which game animals. How has it performed for you?

Before you excoriate me for being a Creedmore fanboy, let me explain. I have never used a 22 or 6mm rifle to kill any game animals larger than a coyote. Also, my idea of a good Elk or Moose round is a 7mm RM, 300wm or 338wm loaded with a heavy bonded or copper mono bullet. I do add that bullet placement is more important than bullet type, weight, energy, etc. Also, I do not like having to track my game animals for miles.

All that said, I have encountered examples recently where hunters used for example 223 to take Axis deer with stunning results. I have seen side by side tests on ballistic gel using Federal Fusion bonded bullets in 243, 308 and 30-06 where the 243 penetrated just as deep and did comparable damage along its path which would suggest that on game the result would also be similar (assuming a perfect broadside shot properly placed). None of that makes me want to trade my magnum for a 243 let alone a 22 CM for an upcoming Moose hunt.

This morning I was watching a new youtube video posted by a young Elk hunting expert (self proclaimed). He said that a 6.5CM was the perfect Elk round because it was accurate and did not kick too much. His personal Elk rifle is a 22 CM which he likes even more but which is not legal for Elk in some states. He also states that for most hunters and in his case, the recoil of a 308 is too much??? He did not have his hair pulled back in a man-bun but had enough hair to do so on a windy day, lol. Mr X-purt cited a number of studies about bullets, bullet weight and energy and affect of recoil on soldiers to conclude that bullet placement is everything to insure hunting success. Because according to him, a 22-Creedmore recoils less thus he shoots it better and therefore is more likely to hit his prey more correctly.

I will admit that one of my most accurate hunting rifles is a 243. Another is a 22lr. But using his logic I am not using either one for Elk or Moose. Some of my other most accurate hunting rifles are: 7mm/08, 7mm RM, and 375HH. All three of these are sub moa with most loads and close to 1/2 moa with there best load. I am of a mind that most men can be taught or can teach themselves how to shoot heavy recoiling rifles with a bit of practice and trial and error. I find it necessary to remember to hold the rifle snug into my shoulder pocket without tensing up or rushing the trigger pull. This is only an issue when range shooting and you never feel the recoil in a hunting scenario. Shooting big un-compensated magnums off of a bench can be unpleasant in some cases. I have a carbon-titanium super light 7mm Mag that is that way when I remove the muzzle brake. But it only weighs about 6.5lbs.

So, where do you fall on this Question? Is a 6.5CM or a 22CM the ideal Elk hunting rifle? Do you use one to hunt big game? Is so which animals have you hunted? How has it performed for you?

View attachment 764658
@JG26Irish_2
Perst I would never use either of those calibers in game if that size.
God let us invent bigger calibres and heavier bullets for a reason. Some game needs bigger and heavier to do the job humanly.
I'm not saying they won't kill, even the 22lr will kill big game . To me it's a stunt and not ethical.
Bob
 
Outdoor Life has been running a lot of content lately that is pushing the concept of using smaller cartridges for hunting bigger game. The idea being that lower recoil is conducive to better shooting. While they may make a fair point that a .338 Winchester Magnum isn’t the best fit for everyone, I personally find it rather irresponsible of them to suggest to a lot of inexperienced shooters that a .243 Winchester or .22 ARC is “just fine” for hunting elk and moose size game. Of course a double lung shot on any big game animal will prove fatal in relatively short order, and this can be achieved with a relatively small bullet if the shot is perfect. But as we should all know that perfect shot just isn’t always the way it goes. I tend to favor the concept of using cartridges which are capable of driving bullets that will ensure adequate penetration from less than ideal angles, and moreover allow for some margin of error considering shot placement or animal movement. And keeping shots within a reasonable distance. The 6.5 Creedmoor may be capable of long range accuracy but it simply isn’t carrying enough momentum to ensure adequate penetration on a 1,000 Pound animal at 1,000 yards. For that matter I find it rather distasteful to shoot at animals from distance much more than 300 yards unless circumstances dictate that necessity. The long story short I think cartridges such as .270 or .308 Winchester loaded with partition bullets are a very good starting point for hunting game of this weight class; these offer consistently adequate performance at a level of recoil that just about anyone can comfortably tolerate.
@RedTag
Whilst I agree a double lung shot will kill an animal I personally think the size of the hole determines how quickly they die.
A 22-243 cal hole will kill BUT a 308,338 or 358 size hole will kill quicker due to more massive tissue damage. A small hole let's a little blood out and a little air in providing the bullet exits.
I prefer a big hole in massive damage and a big hole out thorther side. More void out bigger damage and more air in equals less tracking.
But what do I know.
Bob
 
Personally a 6.5 Creedmore would not be my choice. Even though the Scandinavians use the 6.5X55 for moose. The 22 CM nope.
@Bandera
Scandinavian moose is much smaller than a big Alaskan bull moose.
Bob
 
@Bandera
Scandinavian moose is much smaller than a big Alaskan bull moose.
Bob
Some years ago I had a couple fishing clients from Norway. They were killing time before their big moose hunt and were filling in the gap with a bit of fishing. Anyway we got to talking about guns and hunting. I specifically asked about the 6.5 Swede, and whether that’s what they were using, since all the American gun writers seem to think that all Scandinavian hunters use that cartridge pretty much exclusively. They laughed and said no, they use .375 H&H Magnum, and added that 6.5 Swede is just available back home for folks who don’t have the budget for anything else. I figured these folks could afford whatever they wanted considering how much they were paying for an Alaskan moose hunt; my little fishing side trip was basically pocket change. I asked about getting the meat back home. They laughed again and said no, that’s a tip for their guide. They just wanted a big Alaskan trophy as they have plenty of moose meat back home.
 
@Bandera
Scandinavian moose is much smaller than a big Alaskan bull moose.
Bob
This is very true and we do not shoot the moose at the same distances that seem more common in North America. A shot over 200 meters is very rare and I don´t think any of my old relatives who have shot more moose than they can count have shot any at over 300. Not a lot of people use the 6.5x55 for moose these days but it´s still very popular for toppfågeljakt which is where we shoot birds in trees with fmjs during winter at pretty long distances. Check out Luleåstudentjaktklubb for some cool pics of that kind of hunting :)

These days most people hunt moose with 308, 30-06, 8x57 or 9,3x62 in my experience.
 
My experience with the 6.5CM. Like an Accubond on a big animal like an Elk, Kudo or Water Buck. The Accubond bounces around the rib cage like a ping pong ball and literally destroys everything. No exit. While a copper TTSX stays in tack and is found on the aft side skin, also no exit. 2 different methods considering the ammo choice, but dead is dead.
 
Until just recently I wouldn’t have thought a 6.5 Manbun would be suitable for anything but Deer sized game, now Federal has released the +Peak ammunition in 6.5 Creedmore which equals or exceeds the .264 Winchester Mag I suppose Elk & maybe Moose are fair game for folks who like to shoot smaller calibers.

I shot all my Moose with 200gr NP out of a .300Win, works great on all game .
 
Can't believe this thread is still turning up like a bad penny!

Seriously, if we were teaching some young person to be a responsible hunter, would we justify this advice?
 
Low recoil is good for everyone but doubly so for kids and new shooters. Recoil sucks.
Low recoil is fine when shooting small game. Not so much for DG or large animals. If you can’t handle recoil you should refrain from hunting DG or large animals. It’s just physics.
 
Who has ever noticed recoil--even heavy recoil, when shooting a live animal?
Subconsciously flinching is a real thing for lots of people. So yes you are not noticing shoulder pain in the heat of the moment!
I certainly can agree with that.

But are you shooting as accurate as you could be? Not if you have any sort of flinch or recoil anticipation

That’s what is interesting to me at least
 
Who has ever noticed recoil--even heavy recoil, when shooting a live animal?
I have
But it was after the shoulder messed up
A 250gr 338 wm to be exact. Dammed near dropped the rifle
But like I said that was after the shoulder went bad before that not really.
Even 10 ga single shots and 12 3 1/2 turkey loads and 18 pellet 00 buck were not bad
 
Subconsciously flinching is a real thing for lots of people. So yes you are not noticing shoulder pain in the heat of the moment!
I certainly can agree with that.

But are you shooting as accurate as you could be? Not if you have any sort of flinch or recoil anticipation

That’s what is interesting to me at least
Agreed
But you can still use a suitable round for the game
You have plenty of options other than shooting something with a unsutibe 22

Lower bullet speed
More weight on the rifle
Brake
Recoil reducer
Realy good recoil pad
And a shooting vest with pad
 

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