Mulling over a bolt gun or a double rifle

I cannot give you tax advice, and I am not a tax adviser, but if I owned a shooting range, and had demonstrable income and expenses from the shooting range, I would buy the double rifle, and the bolt gun, for my range. I would then charge people, from time to time, to shoot said rifles at my range, and I might even charge extra for lessons on shooting double rifles, and big bores, Also, I would depreciate the purchase price of said rifles on the tax return of the range. I would run all of this by a tax advisor, to insure that it is as accurate as the rifles you would like to acquire.
 
At the SCI show I do have plans to shop for a Double Rifle.
You can have an unfired (except for factory regulation) LH VC in .450 NE with a leather recoil pad cover and already modified for a red dot mount by Jerome Larue (sp.) the gunsmith, tomorrow instead of waiting several years. ;)
 
You can have an unfired (except for factory regulation) LH VC in .450 NE with a leather recoil pad cover and already modified for a red dot mount by Jerome Larue (sp.) the gunsmith, tomorrow instead of waiting several years. ;)

Here is an FYI those dreaming of a double to consider... Converting a left handed double to a right hand double is a simple task for an experienced gunsmith. Swapping the triggers from left to right isn't exceptionally hard for a good SxS shotgun gunsmith. Cheek pieces can be removed to convert to an ambidextrous stock. After all, doubles are a short range, fast handling rifle, sort of like an upland shotgun. They are not precision target rifles where a cheek piece could aid the shooter for repeatable accurate shots. Long ago I placed in the 1000 Yard Wimbledon Match with a .300 Win Mag that did not have a cheek piece.

Now here’s the rub, the top lever. If, and that’s a big if, the top lever is reversed to swing from right to left for a left handed shooter, that may require a good gunsmith like JJ Perodeau to reverse it. I’ve had two left handed doubles converted and neither had a top lever configured for a lefty.
 
Now here’s the rub, the top lever. If, and that’s a big if, the top lever is reversed to swing from right to left for a left handed shooter, that may require a good gunsmith like JJ Perodeau to reverse it. I’ve had two left handed doubles converted and neither had a top lever configured for a lefty.
Top lever is configured for a lefty, it is a true left handed gun. BTW, OP is left-handed as well.
 
Top lever is configured for a lefty, it is a true left handed gun. BTW, OP is left-handed as well.

Well then... Verney-Carron is a very respected maker of fine arms. I think their doubles are considered somewhere between Chapuis and Heym in quality. Ready for sale from a respected member who doesn't scimp on quality. Oh, in .450 NE, what's not to like!

PS: Converting the throw of the top lever may be as simple as moving the top lever spring from the left side of the tang to the left. Or a right hand top lever spring may be required. Certainly JJ could convert this in an hour or two.
 
I cannot give you tax advice, and I am not a tax adviser, but if I owned a shooting range, and had demonstrable income and expenses from the shooting range, I would buy the double rifle, and the bolt gun, for my range. I would then charge people, from time to time, to shoot said rifles at my range, and I might even charge extra for lessons on shooting double rifles, and big bores, Also, I would depreciate the purchase price of said rifles on the tax return of the range. I would run all of this by a tax advisor, to insure that it is as accurate as the rifles you would like to acquire.
We already do this Firearms (equipment not for sale) purchases. We depreciated the tractor we bought, would most likely be able to do the same.
 
Here lately I seem to have a shift in my Want List.
For the longest while it was a double rifle. A 450-400 NE left handed double rifle.
Now I am thinking a 404 Jeffery Bolt Gun. Yup I have seen 404 listed in the classifieds. That is what started this conundrum.
Both have their merits. Although I can’t really think of any down side to a bolt action other than it is not a Double Rifle.
I am thinking a Chapuis is in my price range for the double rifle.
So it would be a Chapuis vs a Model 70 Winchester
Give me your thoughts.
What would be your choice and why.

I have and used a .375H&H for many Safari’s and it worked well on Buff, Croc, Hippo and plenty of PG. I too was struggling with what was next; a .500 Double or big bore bolt. Finally, decided and got a great buy on a LH .450 Dakota. I’ll use it on another buff and Ele. Not sure what’s next.

A good buy on a LH Double may be a matter of circumstance and timing after this year.

You’ve gotten plenty of good advice already. I follow my head, not my heart.

Each their own,..
 
You can have an unfired (except for factory regulation) LH VC in .450 NE with a leather recoil pad cover and already modified for a red dot mount by Jerome Larue (sp.) the gunsmith, tomorrow instead of waiting several years. ;)
While not left handed, or shopping for another double to walk away with from the show, I would absolutely like to hold and look over a VC if there was one lurking about. I have not had my hands on a VC as of yet. And for my purposes of just checking out their work, left handed would work just as swimmingly as right.

Since it sounded like I wouldn’t have the opportunity to hold and ogle a Shikari at the show, my order hopes dashed, I simultaneously tripped over and succumbed to desires for a 375 Flanged in a recent build 88b last week. Rolling into Nashville mo-poorer than planned. lol.

So maybe someone will let me look at and even hold their shiny toys this week.
 
We already do this Firearms (equipment not for sale) purchases. We depreciated the tractor we bought, would most likely be able to do the same.
I would be stunned if that were not the case, but always good to check with tax people. Look forward to some posts of the new rifles.
 
I am at a stage in my life where I look at the gun safes and think, some these firearms need to go and there needs to be a ________ rifle in my life.

I retired early by some people’s standard at age 55. Then bought a shooting range.
It runs its self so not a huge commitment.
I have facility to practice and then practice more.
I have a wonderful wife who tells me to buy what I want. I truthfully spend more money on her guns. Happy wife shooting, happy life.
My wife knows that my practical side almost always wins out. Almost.

At the SCI show I do have plans to shop for a Double Rifle.
Then I wish you the best of luck!
 
If you're not sure, go with the bolt gun. When it's time for a double, I imagine you'll be certain.
 
Give me your thoughts.

Handling:
Bolt action - simple
Double rifle - complicated. (picky on ammo, regulation of barrels is always a subject, reloading to be trained)

Range and effectivness:
Bolt action: short range + long range
Double action: short range
(For usual hunting distances, bolt rifle is usable up to 200 or 300 meters, as well as on 30 meters, while double rifle is 10 mtr - to optimistic 100 meters weapon)

Reloading:
Bolt action, work the bolt
Double rifle, break open the action, reload somehow.

Accuracy:
Bolt action - 1 to 1.5 moa, acceptable and expected
Double rifle - 4 - 5 moa, excellent (for double rifle standard). Anything better is lottery.

Reliability:
Double rifle with two triggers is like two rifles in one stock
Bolt rifle, is only one rifle. And if it jams, than it is jammed.

Price
Double rifle - good one cost more than any factory rifle
Bolt rifle, affrodable for middle class. High end factory bolt rifle, will be cheaper then any good double rifle.

Ammunition:
For standard calibers ammunition is much more available for bolt rifle

Shooting:
Bolt action, one after another. But two consecutive shots on bolt rifle are slower than on double rifle
Double rifle, gives two fast shots.

But 4 shots from both of them, comes within same time for skilled user, trained for fast reload.

Two fast shots as a main quality of double, are not as easy as it sounds just a trigger pull apart, because just like on bolt action, a shooter needs to handle the recoil, come back from recoil to align the sights and shoot again, and most likely between two shots the target will be moving.
It is not just a fraction of seconds between the two shoots, because things happen in between, just like with a bolt action.

Bolt rifle is rifleman's rifle. Put the scope, zero, shoot, hunt, and repeat
Double rifle, needs philosophy, skill, attitude, and aptitude, load development and dedication. Double rifle is a lifestyle of a hunter. It is very hard to achieve that. It takes time to get skill and all planets and gradients alligned.



Having said all that:
My experience with double rifle is limited. I tried double rifle from a friend, to test on a range It was in 30-06, extensively. I was not impressed. It was clumsy for reloading for me, and accuracy was disaster compared to any bolt action I know
Then I tried double rifle in 416 in hunting camp, on a range in Zim. With the idea to use in hunt. I finally decided for bolt action rifle.

With those two testings, I came to above conclusions, and ever since I keep away from double rifles.
In my two DG hunts (buffalo and ele), my success in relationship to rifle performance was simplicity and accuracy of bolt action rifle.
If I used double rifle in two of my DG hunts, my entire experience would be different, and how it would end up, I cannot say - because entire stalk and approach would need to be different.
 
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Here lately I seem to have a shift in my Want List.
For the longest while it was a double rifle. A 450-400 NE left handed double rifle.
Now I am thinking a 404 Jeffery Bolt Gun. Yup I have seen 404 listed in the classifieds. That is what started this conundrum.
Both have their merits. Although I can’t really think of any down side to a bolt action other than it is not a Double Rifle.
I am thinking a Chapuis is in my price range for the double rifle.
So it would be a Chapuis vs a Model 70 Winchester
Give me your thoughts.
What would be your choice and why.
There is just something about a double rifle.
 
If you carry a Chapuis in the bush, you are playing the lead role in your own Hemingway film. When that rifle comes up, it comes up fast. There is no safety to find, no bolt to cycle. On a follow-up shot on a buff that has disappeared into the thick stuff, you don't need to remember to work a bolt, you just pull the second trigger. It is the ultimate Get off me gun.
 
Handling:
Bolt action - simple
Double rifle - complicated. (picky on ammo, regulation of barrels is always a subject, reloading to be trained)
Disagree. Factory ammo is regulated in factory. My doubles did not need re-regulation. Reloading is simple.
Range and effectivness:
Bolt action: short range + long range
Double action: short range
(For usual hunting distances, bolt rifle is usable up to 200 or 300 meters, as well as on 30 meters, while double rifle is 10 mtr - to optimistic 100 meters weapon)
Agree to a point. DG calibers are meant to be used in short distance though with my 9.3x74R I have taken two impala back to back at over 100 meters, and a baboon at close to 200. But it is not a DG caliber per se.
Reloading:
Bolt action, work the bolt
Double rifle, break open the action, reload somehow.
Reload "somehow"? Just grab two cartridges and slide them in and close the action.
Accuracy:
Bolt action - 1 to 1.5 moa, acceptable and expected
Double rifle - 4 - 5 moa, excellent (for double rifle standard). Anything better is lottery.
Totally disagree for mid to high end doubles. VC, Heym, Rigby etc. are much better than what you suggested.
Reliability:
Double rifle with two triggers is like two rifles in one stock
Bolt rifle, is only one rifle. And if it jams, than it is jammed.
Agreed.
Price
Double rifle - good one cost more than any factory rifle
Bolt rifle, affrodable for middle class. High end factory bolt rifle, will be cheaper then any good double rifle.
My newly ordered Rigby London Best is a tad more than my Rigby Shikari. Double the cost of a Heym double which I would classify as a good double. Agree with low end bolt pricing though. A Blaser R8 can be much cheaper than a mid-range double.
Ammunition:
For standard calibers ammunition is much more available for bolt rifle
Agreed, though a double is usually regulated with a single ammo. Same can also be said for a bolt with fixed iron sights and folding leaf sights.
Shooting:
Bolt action, one after another. But two consecutive shots on bolt rifle are slower than on double rifle
Double rifle, gives two fast shots.
Agreed.
But 4 shots from both of them, comes within same time for skilled user, trained for fast reload.
Agreed again.
Bolt rifle is rifleman's rifle. Put the scope, zero, shoot, hunt, and repeat
Double rifle, needs philosophy, skill, attitude, and aptitude, load development and dedication. Double rifle is a lifestyle of a hunter. It is very hard to achieve that. It takes time to get skill and all planets and gradients alligned
Totally disagree. If one is decent with a bolt, then one can be decent with a double. Aim, and gently press the trigger regardless of the platform.

Having said all that:
My experience with double rifle is limited. I tried double rifle from a friend, to test on a range It was in 30-06, extensively. I was not impressed. It was clumsy for reloading for me, and accuracy was disaster compared to any bolt action I know
Then I tried double rifle in 416 in hunting camp, on a range in Zim. With the idea to use in hunt. I finally decided for bolt action rifle.

With those two testings, I came to above conclusions, and ever since I keep away from double rifles.
In my two DG hunts (buffalo and ele), my success in relationship to rifle performance was simplicity and accuracy of bolt action rifle.
If I used double rifle in two of my DG hunts, my entire experience would be different, and how it would end up, I cannot say - because entire stalk and approach would need to be different.
As you said those two tests were very limited, especially on non-rimmed cartridges. You also made the right choice in picking a platform you were familiar with. However, with your very limited experience I doubt your conclusions are valid as a general rule.

In regard to the "stalk and approach" it depends on the terrain. I have shot multiple DG with both bolt and double rifles. My longest shot at DG at 60 meters was with a double. Shortest, a 15-meter shot was with a bolt.

Now, doubles as a rule are for DG. Most who wish to hunt DG are going to want to come up close and personal instead of sniping from 100+ meters. If one wants to hunt DG at longer distances, sure go ahead, get a bolt with a scope and go to town.

I prefer to hunt as shown below (distance was 30 meters). Your mileage might very. BTW, I had no doubt about the accuracy of my .500 NE and being able to thread the needle.

1771430717041.png
 
My newly ordered Rigby London Best is a tad more than my Rigby Shikari. Double the cost of a Heym double which I would classify as a good double. Agree with low end bolt pricing though. A Blaser R8 can be much cheaper than a mid-range double.
Very curious about this London best you have on order, Westley Richards?
 
Reload "somehow"? Just grab two cartridges and slide them in and close the action.
As mentioned, I am clumsy in that respect. If not really clumsy, than I did not make it to my satisfaction.
Once facing a DG, I took something I am familiar with
 
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Hi - the only (best) method of sending you the .375/06IMP data is with photographing my book notes. My camera died so the only way I can do it is with my phone. To do that, I would need your e-mail address, as this
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