Choosing a Double Rifle

@SStomcat I was just ranking the Krieghoff based on price. I personally like Krieghoff more than both VC and Hyem. But the price of the VC and Hyem are both higher so put them in that $$$ box.

The saftey/cocker decoker on the k-gun bothers some folks but I really like it.
Barring the cocker/decocker—which works very well for some and not so much for others—it’s a solid gun overall. Engraving and cosmetic extras aren’t high on my priority list. What matters more to me is ruggedness, long-term dependability, and how forgiving it is with different factory ammo.
 
Hi Dublin,
my opinion is that the Markel 140 is the right choice for you. If you get that rifle, you will never regret it (my opinion). I would choose 416. Weight of 4.6 kg and barell length 60 cm. Well, if you put a Zeiss z-point, you will have a safari rifle for all time. In market have a used ,but and new one is not a significant more to your budget
 
I've been happy with my Merkel 140 in .450/400 3". It's taken a few buffalo here in my hands, and @264 took plenty more with it.

Whichever way you go, I'd recommend you get a copy of Graeme Wright's excellent book, Shooting the British Double Rifle, now in it's 4th Ed.

Spolier alert - it's also a must read for those owning, or interested in, non-British doubles ;)

Available from a number sources online including @RIGBY

https://www.johnrigbyandco.com/shop...double-rifle-by-graeme-wright-fourth-edition/

The Double Rifle Society refer to Graeme as the 'Godfather of British Duble RIfles'

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DUBTdKpDGpd/
 
Ok, Ive been looking and comparing for some time now and I’m looking to prepare for my 1st double rifle, I’ve herd a lot of negative about rizzini, and Sabattis, I want a good rifle but it doesn’t have to be over the top with engraving and all just a no nonsense hunting rifle and I would like to stay in the 12k and under range , 2nd off as far as a caliber goes I’m torn between a .450/.400 3” or a .470NE I do feel like the .470 would be fitting as I would want this rifle as a buffalo gun primarily but also want a versatile r hunting rifle. I do own a .458 lott but ould probably pass it along once I obtain the double. Thanks for all your help in advance
i am a handgun hunter,but wanting to hunt Namibia i bought a double as they dont allow handguns.i bought a sabatti in 9.3x74r to hunt with there.i shoot the woodliegh hydro static solid,286 gr.im more of a shot placement and bullet construction person,anyway.this is my group with the regulation hornady and the woodliegh. 50 yards. the tightest two are the reg ammo the wider two are the hydros.in 2014,our last time in africa,,had to use my double as the in bound flight no longer allowed hand guns.i took a sable,a hippo,a cape buff.the buff was a complete pass through.
 

Attachments

  • 001 (3).JPG
    001 (3).JPG
    2.2 MB · Views: 38
I may be crusified for this post but here goes...

I bought a Brno double rifle today....only thing I dont like about it is the caliber....458WM.....that will be rectified to 450 No.2 3 1/2" NE.

Although it has a beuatiful stock it will be very few's cup of tee...

O/U configuration ....I prefer this as the regulation is easier there are also two clever places to self regulate to your own loads....

There is already place to mount an Aimpoint red dot sight....

Single trigger most will crap themselves here....I did initially....it is however a mechanical trigger so even if the firts shot is a dud a simple second pull fires the second barrel....

Now some will say there is no barrel selector and you cannot switch between soft and solid.....not needed in this case as only solids are permitted for a trails guide rifle....

The interesting thing is the ejection. If you only fire one shot and open the action only the fired case ejects if you fire both both eject....

I am looking forward to playing with this new rifle....we will see how it goes and it will have to be rigorously tested in the field before it will face any dg....gonna be fun.....if it fails the reliability test it will become a pig fun gun....
 
Double rifles are a different breed of cat (no pun intended). I’m a bolt guy that is throwing himself into learning and using a double; they are quite different. At this point I would not trade my Sterling Davenport .500 Jeffery (with 20 degree shoulder angle .500 Schüler Jumbo chamber) for a double. Get yourself a House of Merkel 140AE chambered either .500 NE or .470 NE. All barrel joining methods are strong enough for the rimmed Nitro Express cartridges. If you go with higher pressure rounds like the bolt gun cartridges .458 Win Mag, .416 Rigby, .375 H&H the Merkel Monobloc, Anson & Deely Boxlock, Greener Cross Bolt, and double bite lumps, and manual safety is as structurally strong as you achieve in a double. To boot, the 140AE is within your budget. The 140AE is accurate, strong as Krupp steel, and locks up like a vault. In short, a Warhorse………
 
I've been happy with my Merkel 140 in .450/400 3". It's taken a few buffalo here in my hands, and @264 took plenty more with it.

Whichever way you go, I'd recommend you get a copy of Graeme Wright's excellent book, Shooting the British Double Rifle, now in it's 4th Ed.

Spolier alert - it's also a must read for those owning, or interested in, non-British doubles ;)

Available from a number sources online including @RIGBY

https://www.johnrigbyandco.com/shop...double-rifle-by-graeme-wright-fourth-edition/

The Double Rifle Society refer to Graeme as the 'Godfather of British Duble RIfles'

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DUBTdKpDGpd/
If you are at DSC this weekend stop by at the Double Rifle Society booth and you can get the book and get it signed by Mr. Wright who will be there with them!
 
Hi Dublin,
my opinion is that the Markel 140 is the right choice for you. If you get that rifle, you will never regret it (my opinion). I would choose 416. Weight of 4.6 kg and barell length 60 cm. Well, if you put a Zeiss z-point, you will have a safari rifle for all time. In market have a used ,but and new one is not a significant more to your budget
Whats a goot price point for a 140a in 375hh? And when were they made/pros cons?
 
I went to the Chapuis website. They are beautiful rifles. I couldn’t find engineering details on how the actions are built or how the barrels are joined. I did see Chapuis’ have Beavertail forends. What I did find referred to Chapuis using shotgun actions. Does anyone have engineering details?
 
Whats a goot price point for a 140a in 375hh? And when were they made/pros cons?
I think they can be found used for 6000-7000k in good condition. The advantage is very high-quality materials in production, and I honestly don't know about faulty
 
I went to the Chapuis website. They are beautiful rifles. I couldn’t find engineering details on how the actions are built or how the barrels are joined. I did see Chapuis’ have Beavertail forends. What I did find referred to Chapuis using shotgun actions. Does anyone have engineering details?
Give George at Champlin arms and call and he can answer any questions you may have about the Chapuis!
 


Sorry just felt like this might solve the problem ;)
 
A different take: Are you buying a rifle or a myth?

Let us dispose with the disclaimer: I have owned two side by side doubles in "African" calibers: a pre WW II Belgian guild Jules Bury in 450#2 that I kept for several decades but that George Caswell at Champlin loved so much that I ended up selling it to him when ammo became too much of a problem, and a modern Krieghoff in .470 NE. As well as a couple over/under in "European" calibers 7x65R and 9.3x74R. So the following does not come from someone who dreams of buying a double but cannot do it and therefore trashes them. Matter of fact I sold my K gun .470 on this forum not so long ago.

As far as hunting goes, I hunted lion, elephant and buffalo with a double, so here again, without being an expert, I have been there and done it.

Here is the first hard truth: most clients who purchase and hunt with a double would be MUCH better served with a bolt action rifle:
  1. Doubles offer very limited flexibility in the field. 50 yards to maybe 75 yards is already a pretty long shot for most folks off hand and with iron sights.
  2. The cost of ammunition is prohibitive.
  3. The recoil of .45+ calibers is beyond many's comfort threshold.
  4. As a result of cost and recoil most folks do not practice enough to become even remotely proficient with their rifle, never mind reliable.
  5. Yes, the fabled instant second shot is there for charging animals, for the darn few and far between who are practiced enough to use it, but the reality is that darn few clients belong to that club, and most are better served with 4 rounds in a bolt action for follow up on a fleeting wounded animal.
Buying a double and becoming proficient with it is a commitment. Few things scare a PH more than a first time client showing up with his brand new double. And rightfully so...

If the word "budget" is even part of the discussion, and if you have never been to Africa, Dublinpiper90, here is the second hard truth: spend the $12,000 going on a safari.

I too was part of the crowd, the very large crowd, of folks who had for years DG rifles in the safe but did not go to Africa because the budget could not allow BOTH rifles AND safari. This is not the best use of limited disposable income.

You mention owning a .458 Lott, Dublinpiper90, there is nothing a .470 double will do that a reliable .458 Lott will not do. You have all you need. Reloading for it is simple and foolproof, and you can practice endlessly (I mean several hundred rounds per year!) with soft loads and light bullets until you are truly proficient with it.

The sad reality is that the days of Out Of Africa are gone, and you will never "own a farm in Africa". Bury happily the ghost of Denys Finch Hatton, and go on small PG safari with your deer rifle; on large PG safari with your elk rifle, and on DG safari with a .375 H&H unless you really know how to use your .458 Lott, and you will be much happier.

My own story is that I finally became honest with myself after a few years of owning a Blaser R8 and finally admitted that the R8 with its .458 Lott barrel fits me as well or better than any double ever did; that my second shot is about as fast with the R8 as it was with the K gun (I cycle the action while the rifle is in recoil); that a 1-6x24 scope is invaluable past 75 yards; and that the several thousands of .22 LR and .223 (not counting the .257 Wby, .300 Wby and .375 H&H) that I shoot every year with the R8 have made me infinitely more proficient with it than the few boxes of .470 per year I used to shoot ever made me with the K gun. I happily sold it, do not regret it, and put the money on a Leopard hunt.

I know that this is not the answer that most will provide, and some may scorn it, but old hands may also nod their head in agreement :)
 
Last edited:
Now that @One Day... has summerized what I was trying not to write, here is what I posted some time ago...

 
Lots of truth here. The vast majority of hunters are far better off with a scoped 375 or 416 if the killing of game is the predominant factor (no reason it shouldn’t be).

BUT. For those who have been fortunate enough to have successfully hunted piles of game, including DG, I’d say it may make sense to up the ante and make things more challenging and interesting. Or if you do have a love affair with double guns and have put in the training and effort, it arguably adds to the adventure.

I’m less into the excellent but modern doubles these days- I want to spend my Africa time toting a 100+ year old work of art around the places for which it was originally created. And then, after I can’t do it anymore (or am gone), someone else can carry it and add their own experience and story to that double rifle’s history (just like those before me and I would have done).
 
Question: your opinion why Chapuis is not offered in .500 Nitro Express?
The market for double rifles is small the rifle for certain calibers is smaller. Very few clients are looking for a .500 NE. They are keeping their cost reasonable by chambering in the most popular calibers.
 
A different take: Are you buying a rifle or a myth?

Let us dispose with the disclaimer: I have owned two side by side doubles in "African" calibers: a pre WW II Belgian guild Jules Bury in 450#2 that I kept for several decades but that George Caswell at Champlin loved so much that I ended up selling it to him when ammo became too much of a problem, and a modern Krieghoff in .470 NE. As well as a couple over/under in "European" calibers 7x65R and 9.3x74R. So the following does not come from someone who dreams of buying a double but cannot do it and therefore trashes them. Matter of fact I sold my K gun .470 on this forum not so long ago.

As far as hunting goes, I hunted lion, elephant and buffalo with a double, so here again, without being an expert, I have been there and done it.

Here is the first hard truth: most clients who purchase and hunt with a double would be MUCH better served with a bolt action rifle:
  1. Doubles offer very limited flexibility in the field. 50 yards to maybe 75 yards is already a pretty long shot for most folks off hand and with iron sights.
  2. The cost of ammunition is prohibitive.
  3. The recoil of .45+ calibers is beyond many's comfort threshold.
  4. As a result of cost and recoil most folks do not practice enough to become even remotely proficient with their rifle, never mind reliable.
  5. Yes, the fabled instant second shot is there for charging animals, for the darn few and far between who are practiced enough to use it, but the reality is that darn few clients belong to that club, and most are better served with 4 rounds in a bolt action for follow up on a fleeting wounded animal.
Buying a double and becoming proficient with it is a commitment. Few things scare a PH more than a first time client showing up with his brand new double. And rightfully so...

If the word "budget" is even part of the discussion, and if you have never been to Africa, Dublinpiper90, here is the second hard truth: spend the $12,000 going on a safari.

I too was part of the crowd, the very large crowd, of folks who had for years DG rifles in the safe but did not go to Africa because the budget could not allow BOTH rifles AND safari. This is not the best use of limited disposable income.

You mention owning a .458 Lott, Dublinpiper90, there is nothing a .470 double will do that a reliable .458 Lott will not do. You have all you need. Reloading for it is simple and foolproof, and you can practice endlessly (I mean several hundred rounds per year!) with soft loads and light bullets until you are truly proficient with it.

The sad reality is that the days of Out Of Africa are gone, and you will never "own a farm in Africa". Bury happily the ghost of Denys Finch Hatton, and go on small PG safari with your deer rifle; on large PG safari with your elk rifle, and on DG safari with a .375 H&H unless you really know how to use your .458 Lott, and you will be much happier.

My own story is that I finally became honest with myself after a few years of owning a Blaser R8 and finally admitted that the R8 with its .458 Lott barrel fits me as well or better than any double ever did; that my second shot is about as fast with the R8 as it was with the K gun (I cycle the action while the rifle is in recoil); that a 1-6x24 scope is invaluable past 75 yards; and that the several thousands of .22 LR and .223 (not counting the .257 Wby, .300 Wby and .375 H&H) that I shoot every year with the R8 have made me infinitely more proficient with it than the few boxes of .470 per year I used to shoot ever made me with the K gun. I happily sold it, do not regret it, and put the money on a Leopard hunt.

I know that this is not the answer that most will provide, and some may scorn it, but old hands may also nod their head in agreement :)
One Day has been and continues to be very wise! Take what he says for truth and experience…having said that though please don’t misunderstand him…I am a very classical nostalgic Africa hunter!!! My experience in Africa fulfills that because I look for and find it which is not always easy. I am blessed to have both my favorite DR and bolt action rifles for any and all DG and PG. I love shooting my DR and do so each and every month to his point becoming very accurate and reliable with it. Let’s face it whatever you take your PH will find out fast “can you shoot it”. He also is right about his comments on “budget” but each person has to decide both what that is and are you giving up something. Again I have been blessed to set my vision for a 7 year time frame to take the Big 5 ( need my leopard) and all the PG I want having the three rifles I want with all reloading supplies. For me the secret is only having one passion which is Africa…that’s it not golf or fishing or anything else. I also am a huge planner with spreadsheets. I am blessed to hunt Africa each year the key is answer his points which are well made. 1. what is your budget for guns, reloading and hunts? 2. Are you having to decide on either the gun or the hunt? If so do the hunt with a bolt action but hopefully you can do both.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
66,133
Messages
1,461,711
Members
139,628
Latest member
Motikotise
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

MooseHunter wrote on TX_GreatPlains's profile.
Would you want a Ruger Super Blackhawk in trade for the HUsky?
'68boy wrote on JG26Irish_2's profile.
Do you still have the Browning .375? If so do you want to sell and how much? DM me please
bpdilligaf wrote on Bejane's profile.
Be careful of hunting Chewore South, the area has been decimated.....


Curious about this. I hunted Chewore South with D&Y in September and they did tell me it was there last hunt there.

Which outfits shot it out?
Impala cull hunt for camp meat!

 
Top