Safety in South Africa 2017

Liz123456

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Is it safe to hunt now in south africa limpopo with the natives taking the land back with force? We visited and we stayed in a remote location. Of course barb wire everywhere but still seems borderline. I would like to bring my children but would I be an easy target?
 
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Liz
I am going there in 60 days and I have no fears about it.
 
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Is it safe to hunt now in south africa limpopo with the natives taking the land back with force? ............

You need a geography lesson.
 
Is it safe to hunt now in south africa limpopo with the natives taking the land back with force? We visited and we stayed in a remote location. Of course barb wire everywhere but still seems borderline. I would like to bring my children but would I be an easy target?

Is it safe to go to Detroit, Chicago, Grande Prairie or (fill it with whatever city you choose)? I have never felt threathened in South Africa, Namibia, Zim, Zam or Botswana. I have lived and worked in Angola for 5-1/2 years, where the landmines still lined the perimeter of our camp, and I actually felt very safe there (it's the little things that help make a house a home!) Have now lived in Lagos, Nigeria for 5 years and no incidents. Have brought my kids to various African countries and no issues. It is typical to get treated very well...........or as I like to tell people, better than we deserve.
 
Is it safe to hunt now in south africa limpopo with the natives taking the land back with force? We visited and we stayed in a remote location. Of course barb wire everywhere but still seems borderline. I would like to bring my children but would I be an easy target?
Firstly they are not taking back land with force, thats just bad media.... some land grabs are happening but mostly on unoccupied land, nothing to stress about. You and your children will be fine as long as you travel with a South African who understands the country and the politics, so basically any Outfitter or PH.
 
I always find the mixed metaphors interesting as it pertains to crime.

Why is Jo'Burg scarier than Chicago even though both have high murder rates? Because they are vastly different places. African homes have nothing short of moats around them, broken glass bottles or razor wire mortared into the top of the concrete block walls of the outdoor back yard spaces. Compared to greater Chicago area where i live... I honestly don't know where my housekey is at since I've not used it in about 10 months. First thing Africans say when they visit my home is "why don't you have walls in your back yards?".

I point the above out to simply state that the situations are vastly different.

In Africa, they are killing people for a variety of reasons, lets define the reasons: Color of Skin / Retribution (whites), TO seize property, to stifle or suppress political oppositions, To deter competitive commerce, violent burglary.

In the USA for example, they are killing for different reasons. Drug wars. Gang wars. Friendly fire in drug and gang wars. Random casualties of bad aim in the former. Unwarranted resistance to a robbery / car jacking.

The reasons are different so the level of fear should be different. We in the USA don't go to where the murders happen because we can predict where they will happen. We can also predict WHY they will happen and avoid behaviors and locations that will bring us into danger.

In Africa, the locations of crime are far broader and dare I say, universal. The nicest of homes have security gates and barred entry. They have walled areas. They have bars in the windows. They use locks on doors. You cannot predict crime in Africa. You can predict crime in America. You can avoid dangerous activities easily in America to not be a victim. You cannot easily avoid being a victim in Africa.

In the USA when we see someone locking up all their stuff and they are perpetually paranoid about theft we only know one thing: They are absolutely a deviant thief themselves as they are preparing for an act that doesn't happen often...except in their mind others act like they do. In Africa, everything is locked. Even in government for say receiving petty cash for a permit there are no less than 4-6 people "checking", "verifying" and "authorizing" to prevent theft and fraud. I worked at a Swiss bank and let me tell you, we'd deal with millions of dollars with less checksums involved.

Africa is culturally different than America and so too are the crime risks.
 
Rookhawk, you say that yet hundreds of us from this site alone went all over RSA last year and never had an issue. Sure if you live there the risk is greater, but as visitors I don't see much risk, especially if you have a guide of some sort. My cousin went there for the world cup, stayed in joburg, went to one of the most dangerous sports to watch as a spectator, then rented a car and drove around with no issue whatsoever. The same cannot be said for many a visitor to Detroit
 
Rookhawk, you say that yet hundreds of us from this site alone went all over RSA last year and never had an issue. Sure if you live there the risk is greater, but as visitors I don't see much risk, especially if you have a guide of some sort. My cousin went there for the world cup, stayed in joburg, went to one of the most dangerous sports to watch as a spectator, then rented a car and drove around with no issue whatsoever. The same cannot be said for many a visitor to Detroit


I agree , @Albert GRANT . Even in dangerous places with high crime, divide the frequency and find the daily average. Your odds of being mirdered in say Honduras are probably.001% per day and that's the most deadly.

Africans are amazing with hospitality and they take great care of us. I don't want to use scare tactics I just wanted to convey risk is harder to mitigate in Africa than in Chicago. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my daughter studying abroad there for 6 months. I would feel comfortable being in a PH's care in the bush for two weeks and in Jo'Burg for a one night layover if required.
 
Call me paranoid, but I deal with crime everyday. I keep all my stuff locked up, and carry everywhere.

Are you American?

Figured it out, South Texas. I understand. Safe locals, porous border...random crime.
 
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These attacks are not taking "land back by force."
They are opportunistic criminals who are going after specific targets for personal gain.

38% of the victims of the farm attacks have been Black.


wikipedia.jpg


Could the SAPS be doing more? Certainly.


The conglomerate Murder Stats

rsa crime stats.jpg



The FBI reported:
  • In 2015, there were an estimated 1,197,704 violent crimes. Murder and non-negligent manslaughter increased 10.8 percent when compared with estimates from 2014.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2015-crime-statistics

Apparently, there are cities in the USA where you are more likely to be Murdered than many of the states in RSA! Isn't perception an interesting thing?

Rates per 100,000
murder rate usa cities.jpg



Now DON'T going driving around in Gauteng though!

rsa car jacking.jpg
 
...... First thing Africans say when they visit my home is "why don't you have walls in your back yards?".
I point the above out to simply state that the situations are vastly different. ....

Good point.
It was a shocker for me to go to a place that had electric fences, barbed wire and concrete fences around the homes coming from a place where my doors are left unlocked at night and I only lock them if I leave on vacation. (No, I don't live in an island)

My first sunset in Africa. Note the barbed wire!
IMG_0923.jpg



My first visit to a Mall in Joburg. The first store beside the main entrance!

IMG-20110721-00129.jpg



In all my days and nights in Southern Africa I have never felt threatened, with or without an Outfitters presence.
 

VERY misleading post! First, it quotes according to sources. Second it spans 23 years which makes the 70,000 seem much larger than say .... 3043 people per year out of approximately 50,000,000 ... or about 0.006% of the population (calculations below!). And it doesn't account for WHY

70,000/23 years = (3043 people/year/50,000,000 population) X 100 = 0.006% of the population in any given year.

As a comparison, 5.2% of Americans are killed every year by accidental means (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php ). And because almost 100% of the accidental means have nothing to do with the social/political climate of the US, you are roughly 1000 time more likely to be killed by accident means (car accident, hunting accident, slipping on the bath tup, etc.) while in South African than a white person is to be murdered in Africa by a black person ... according to the math!!!!
 
... and I also never felt threatened in South Africa. I drove from Port Elizabeth to Cape Town and toured Cape Town for a total of 8 days ... with my daughter ... and never felt threatened in any way.
 
We have heard nothing again from the original poster of this thread. Note he/she was a first time poster. Phil notes this may have been started by a troll. I think I agree. Be that as it may I have never really been concerned in South Africa for my safety. I have always been with someone who knew whee we were and what to watch out for. Only once was I approached by a drunk demanding money at a gas station. The second PH who was with me dispatched the man quickly. Not any different than being approached at a service station here in the states by someone asking for money.
 
I have very seldom felt threatened anywhere in the world, but I also have avoided areas where I believe I would have felt threatened.

Comparing a few visits to SA and to drive around for a few weeks, or a few visits to a hunting area cannot be compared with the every day lives of the people who lives in SA.
@Scott Slough- There are not 50M white people in SA, so somewhere the numbers are not in line either.

The farm attacks are on the rise, there is no question about that. The perceived wealth of the farmers, whether they own the farm, or are employees on the farm seems to be the main reason. Also many farms are not as well protected as many of the houses and properties in the suburbs and makes easier targets.

I have family that have been attacked on their farm, but also have family, friends and friends of friends that have never seen anything. So one or two incidents are not enough to make general statements.

Every now and then there are visitors to SA that have been victims of crimes, as anywhere in the world. Usually the visitors to SA are not the preferred targets.

//Gus
 
I have never felt unsafe but that is because I:

1. avoided shady places
2. usually had a rifle
3. was with my PH who always packed his 9mm even in the airport

Use your head, stay with the outfitter and you will be safe
 

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