What do you think of Tiger and Jaguar being hunted in South Africa?

[MJ75]

Personally I find it very sad that these two species are offered. Hunting is already under pressure from anti types, and this kind of canned shooting (I refuse to call it hunting) will only give antis more ammunition to fire at us.

It certainly isn't for me. Hunting antelope etc in their native range where the meat goes into the human food chain is very easy to justify, as long as the species are correctly managed. Put and take exotics in a canned hunt is not the same thing at all in my mind.

 

[Panielsen]

Panielsen, I can understand your sentiments but you also need to understand there is a big difference in canned hunting and animals bred for hunting.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. The way it sounds to me is: Man buys tigers. Man breeds tigers. Man releases tigers into a known area of a fenced ranch. Man collects a fee, and takes client to area to shoot tiger. My point was where does one go to purchase endangered animals? Look, I'm not a fan of the tree huggers or the animal people, but I am aware that Tigers are dangerously close to being gone. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Scimitar oryx are endangered in their native habitat but the species is thriving in Texas on exotic hunting ranches. The governments in charge of natural tiger habitat can't seem to protect them. If they can be raised profitably for hunting (or any other purpose), their future is ensured.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Scimitar oryx are endangered in their native habitat but the species is thriving in Texas on exotic hunting ranches. The governments in charge of natural tiger habitat can't seem to protect them. If they can be raised profitably for hunting (or any other purpose), their future is ensured.

Very true. Wish we could get the guys in charge where the Tigers live to give a damn.

 

[Diamondhitch]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. The way it sounds to me is: Man buys tigers. Man breeds tigers. Man releases tigers into a known area of a fenced ranch. Man collects a fee, and takes client to area to shoot tiger. My point was where does one go to purchase endangered animals? Look, I'm not a fan of the tree huggers or the animal people, but I am aware that Tigers are dangerously close to being gone. Just my 2 cents.

There are lots of captive Tigers in the US. It is not difficult for people to own one there, I am not sure about in South Africa but it would certainly be far easier to purchase one from a breeder than to go to all the expense and trouble of locating, capturing and smuggling a wild tiger out of its natural habitat. Just the logistics of it are mind boggling.

Taking personal, hunting vs. canned shooting, beliefs out of the equation. I would much rather see Tigers and Jaguar bred and hunted in South Africa, even if these were the last left in the entire world than see them disappear completely. Whether we agree with the motives, breeding them solely for hunting, with no thought to conservation, no more than profit driven, would certainly be the lesser of 2 evils at worst.

 

[ArmyGrunt]

for me personally I believe an animal should be hunted wild and in it's native habitat.it takes something away from the animal and the hunting experience when you bring the animal to you rather than you go to them.it would be much cheaper for me to go"hunt" some of the african plains game on some ranch in texas but it just would not be the same

I haven't looked into it all that much, but from the little I did search prior to taking my first safari, it would have been cheaper to fly to Africa and shoot a kudu and a zebra, with a couple other critters, versus just going to Texas for one Zebra alone. If I remember right, the two or three exotics ranches I found websites for had the price tag over $10k for either one. I only ended up harvesting 3 on my SA trip, but all in all I'll be under $10k. That certainly makes me hope for another trip sooner rather than later.

 

[siml]

I am not interested about what the bunny huggers think, most of the programs they have endorsed and managed to convince African countries has caused a decline in those places game numbers. Kenya is a prime example and Botswana is next. These carnivores cost the land owners huge amount of money to feed, without some kind of income, they wouldn't be around.

@Panielsen , what's the difference in lions being hunted in South Africa?

When there is a value to animals, they will be looked after....if it pays it stays..

 

[Diamondhitch]

I haven't looked into it all that much, but from the little I did search prior to taking my first safari, it would have been cheaper to fly to Africa and shoot a kudu and a zebra, with a couple other critters, versus just going to Texas for one Zebra alone. If I remember right, the two or three exotics ranches I found websites for had the price tag over $10k for either one. I only ended up harvesting 3 on my SA trip, but all in all I'll be under $10k. That certainly makes me hope for another trip sooner rather than later.

I noticed the same thing. Other than Tanzanian trophies and Bongo etc, it is often cheaper to buy a plane ticket, fly to Africa, hunt 1 species, fly home and repeat the process for each animal on your list than to hunt them in Texas.

 

[enysse]

I look at this way, all hunting in Africa keeps the land from being developed to a degree into something that is not hunting. So if it pays it stays.

 

[wahunter]

I was not sure if I should post this picture, I got a phone call of a tiger with a kidney problem, he was only given a few months to live, would I have a client interested, I actually laughed it off until I saw a video of him, man was he lively and cunning. So I booked the tiger and we hunted him, this was all done on foot, tracking him in the sand, I know a lot of lions are hunted on the same property(I have even seen lion on AH from same place). My client and myself were not disappointed with the hunt. It felt real and realistic, a lot more excitement than lions, as the tiger was a lot more wary. Hunting is about conservation, that money paid for the tiger went back into the right places.

That's a awesome photo , would love to hunt one of those cats

 

[Scott Slough]

100% against it ... 100% unsupportive of those who sell the hunts .... 99.9784% certain I wouldn't want to share a camp with someone who paid to do the hunt.

 

[bluey]

That's a awesome photo , would love to hunt one of those cats

times 2

 

[siml]

Scott, why would you be against staying in a camp with someone that hunted a tiger or jaguar? The client I hunted the tiger with, I take my hat off to him..he has hunted most of the African countries that you can hunt, he understands that it costs a lot to keep these big cats, should we rather have let the tiger suffer a few months and then dug a hole and bury him. I am not a fan of captive bred hunting, especially when most of the time I am hunting on 690 000 acres of free range, BUT I understand the need for captive breeding, but fully support it. I get two lions a year on quota, I have yet to let one be shot, as I haven't seen one that is past his prime and ready to be hunted, I am just trying to point out, it's not all about money, but CONSERVATION. Emotions don't help save animals, conservation does.

 

[Scott Slough]

Simon,

I have no problem sharing a camp with someone who has legally hunted wild tiger or jaguar (assuming there are any of those individuals alive today). Captive breeding for release into the wild to establish/reestablish free-roaming, huntable populations is very different from captive breeding to shoot individual animals. Raising animals in a captive breeding program for the sole purpose of shooting them is a business ... not CONSERVATION! You can not conserve an individual animal, you can conserve a population and you can conserve habitat. The DSC auction rhino hunt and your wild lions on quota are PERFECT examples of conservation because the dollars are not being spent to raise another animal to be released and shot, they are being used to manage/protect the wild population and wild habitat. This is an important distinction for me.

I am not out to attack anyone. I started my response several days ago in response to a 100% for it and was trying to write a justification as this is a difficult question that reasonable people can disagree on. Others had posted some of the things I was trying to say so I cut off the justification and just posted the original statement ... which resulted in a more flippant response than I intended.

 

[siml]

 

[Panielsen]

I am not interested about what the bunny huggers think, most of the programs they have endorsed and managed to convince African countries has caused a decline in those places game numbers. Kenya is a prime example and Botswana is next. These carnivores cost the land owners huge amount of money to feed, without some kind of income, they wouldn't be around.

@Panielsen , what's the difference in lions being hunted in South Africa?

When there is a value to animals, they will be looked after....if it pays it stays..

The difference to me is simple, lion is indigenous to SA and not an endangered species. The Tiger and Jaguar were shipped in or bred outside of their native habitat. The conversation was about our thoughts on it. I don't think it is something I would do. I am not thinking any less of anyone who does do it, just not for me. Any money generated by hunting a Tiger in SA, is most generally only profiting the guy raising the Tiger. So, in short the "if it pays it stays" concept isn't applying to Tigers in India, Russia, or wherever else they are found. Basically it is a cash crop to the owner, right? Just saying.....

 

[siml]

Divide and conquer is all the anti's need.

 

[Panielsen]

Divide and conquer is all the anti's need.

Lol, no one is divided here. Just having a spirited conversation in the privacy of our own forum. Hell you could bag two and I would still enjoy a cold one at the camp fire with ya!

 

[npm352]

Hunters need to support hunters. Period. If its legal dont put other hunters down. If you don't like a law, work to have it changed. I am a houndsmen in Idaho and would love it if only male mountain lions were allowed to be shot. I would like the law changed to protect females because a lot of kittens get orphaned this way and we need more lions not less. But, I will never put someone down for killing a female if it is legal because if we are divided we will continue to lose opportunities. Tigers and Jaguars hunted in SA is no different than dama gazelle and addax in Texas except tigers and jaguars are way cooler. Have at it boys. I'd love to hear more stories about it. If I could legal run jaguars with hounds in SA, id be tempted as all get out.

 

[Red Leg]

I am sorry - I believe that is bullshit - there is a difference between ethics and legality. Whatever "killing" a tiger or a jaguar in an enclosure is - it has nothing to do with hunting. It might very well be dangerous, but so is sky-diving - and to this hunter's mind, neither has anything to do with hunting. And I refuse to tie my efforts to protect my sport to someone who wants to step into a cage (I don't care how many acres) and kill some recently drugged animal. And frankly, I really don't even want to have a beer with someone who shoots one under those conditions.