What rifle do you totally trust on dangerous game and what rifle do you mistrust on Dangerous game

[Franco]

No need to apologize — you’re entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. Not answering your personal experience, whether one can be comfortable with more than one calibre or type of DG rifle is your choice, and I respect that.

For me, the answer is a thumping YES. But I’ll admit, I know only a fraction compared to the stalwarts here, which is why I always value constructive feedback over egocentric, wannabe comments.

I'd like to think you and I are on the same page. I fail to see where my response was egocentric - I agree 100% with your original statement, and how is my complimenting you on the nature of your questions not constructive?

Absolutely I have more than one DG rifle I trust and am comfortable with in a given situation.

You have been a member of this forum for longer than I have been hunting so if that makes me a "wannabe" so be it. But this "wannabe" has taken 3 elephants, 8 cape buffalo (including 4 over 40"), a rhino, lion, 6 hippos, the same number of crocs, giraffes, more zebras than I remember, hyenas, ostrich, and a long list of plains game - and that's just Africa. Australia - banteng, water buffalo, camels, donkeys, and a couple sharks. North America - bison, hogs, alligators.

If I'm going to go down the egocentric hole - I might as well go with both feet. To answer your question about being comfortable with more than one calibre or type of DG rifle, and in an effort to demonstrate further - I agree with you, I offer the following.

Here's pictures of two crocodiles I shot on a recent hunt in Mozambique. One was on a sandbar in the middle of the river, my only shot was 228 yds from a goat pen on the bank. I was literally stuck, up to my ass in goat crap and mud, but that provided an extremely stable platform. My rifle? My Heym 375 H&H Bolt. As I am sure you are aware, there are no second chances with crocs.

A couple days later I had the opportunity of a larger croc, the only problem - he was on an island 800 yds from shore. We drifted onto the island and then worked our way close - crawling the last bit to get within 20 yds. My rifle? My Heym 450/400 Double.

I can't think of any other way to demonstrate it is possible to be confident, comfortable, and to trust more than one rifle.

Here's one of the hippos - Heym 375 H&H

If you still find fault or disagree with what I'm saying - so be it. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[grand veneur]

I'm not sure which make actions @Kevin Peacocke was referring to. Specifically Mausers? Since 1964 and after killing literally hundreds of animals and as many or more rounds fired at the range, I can only recall one problem cycling my Springfield 03A3. On my last safari a cartridge momentarily failed to feed when a gemsbuck bull we were after suddenly appeared while my PH was following a herd of wildebeest. When hunting in company of others I typically carry the 30-06 with an empty chamber. Its scope relief wing safety doesn't thrill me. Something went wrong when I tried to chamber a round, but only momentarily. Not sure what was the problem. I quickly got the gun back in action and shot the bull through the neck on the run.

I use several rifles with Mauser actions and all the ones I have had similar problems with, were barely revised or not. This also applies to the rifle caliber 11,2x72 Schüler I quoted in the post #90. I think the same applies to similar actions like Springfield or Winchester 70. Classic Mannlicher-Schoenauer actions are more reliable, but were rarely used for big bore rifles. It is certain that modern actions offer advantages, but they can also create other problems. I will stick with Mauser actions in all cases.

 

[IvW]

Custom 500 Jeff on a Brno ZKK602 action.....

 

[SStomcat]

I'd like to think you and I are on the same page. I fail to see where my response was egocentric - I agree 100% with your original statement, and how is my complimenting you on the nature of your questions not constructive?

Absolutely I have more than one DG rifle I trust and am comfortable with in a given situation.

You have been a member of this forum for longer than I have been hunting so if that makes me a "wannabe" so be it. But this "wannabe" has taken 3 elephants, 8 cape buffalo (including 4 over 40"), a rhino, lion, 6 hippos, the same number of crocs, giraffes, more zebras than I remember, hyenas, ostrich, and a long list of plains game - and that's just Africa. Australia - banteng, water buffalo, camels, donkeys, and a couple sharks. North America - bison, hogs, alligators.

If I'm going to go down the egocentric hole - I might as well go with both feet. To answer your question about being comfortable with more than one calibre or type of DG rifle, and in an effort to demonstrate further - I agree with you, I offer the following.

Here's pictures of two crocodiles I shot on a recent hunt in Mozambique. One was on a sandbar in the middle of the river, my only shot was 228 yds from a goat pen on the bank. I was literally stuck, up to my ass in goat crap and mud, but that provided an extremely stable platform. My rifle? My Heym 375 H&H Bolt. As I am sure you are aware, there are no second chances with crocs.

View attachment 725301

A couple days later I had the opportunity of a larger croc, the only problem - he was on an island 800 yds from shore. We drifted onto the island and then worked our way close - crawling the last bit to get within 20 yds. My rifle? My Heym 450/400 Double.

View attachment 725302

I can't think of any other way to demonstrate it is possible to be confident, comfortable, and to trust more than one rifle.

Here's one of the hippos - Heym 375 H&H

View attachment 725303
If you still find fault or disagree with what I'm saying - so be it. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I'm not going to start a debate on this; not worth our time. My comment was misconstrued, and you took it personally. I was making a general statement, and I have been long enough here to know that such people exist, even though they are in the minority.


-----If I'm going to go down the egocentric hole - I might as well go with both feet. To answer your question about being comfortable with more than one calibre or type of DG rifle, and in an effort to demonstrate further - I agree with you, I offer the following.------

Again, please read my last sentence. I firmly believe that if one can prove to oneself, there is no need to prove to others. Please understand before you go down a rabbit hole and get defensive.

I will rest my case here, and if you feel that I directed those words at you, I sincerely apologize.

 

[Franco]

I'm not going to start a debate on this; not worth our time. My comment was misconstrued, and you took it personally. I was making a general statement, and I have been long enough here to know that such people exist, even though they are in the minority.


-----If I'm going to go down the egocentric hole - I might as well go with both feet. To answer your question about being comfortable with more than one calibre or type of DG rifle, and in an effort to demonstrate further - I agree with you, I offer the following.------

Again, please read my last sentence. I firmly believe that if one can prove to oneself, there is no need to prove to others. Please understand before you go down a rabbit hole and get defensive.

I will rest my case here, and if you feel that I directed those words at you, I sincerely apologize.

Understood - thanks.

 

[StevenQ718]

Do you mean in relation to certain types and also brands of rifles? Regardless of caliber, I suppose. This question is not easy to answer objectively. There will certainly be as many different answers as there are people answering.

As far as I am concerned, for me the best rifles for hunting DG are those built on Mauser actions, followed by those built with M1917 Enfield actions or Mannlicher-Schoenauer actions. As the various break-actions are concerned, only the double rifles of well-know gunmakers. All of these rifles have proven themselves in the field over the more than 100 years they have been in use.

At the other end of the spectrum are all these technically complex bolt actions, such as those from Blaser for example, in which I have no trust when hunting DG. This also includes all the cheap very affordable double rifles.

Could you please explain why you don't trust Blaser?

 

[grand veneur]

Could you please explain why you don't trust Blaser?

Opinions are never entirely objective, as they are often influenced by something, especially anything related to Blaser, thanks to effective advertising and sponsorship. The topic Blaser bolt actions is controversial discussed in my countries, primarily because there were initially serious shooting accidents resulting in permanent facial injuries for some. While some things may have improved on the bolt actions from Blaser, a sense of unease remains for some of us. Anyone who hunts under hard conditions and puts a lot of strain on their rifle should opt for very robust bolt actions. Blaser bolt actions are technically very complex and therefore, logically, more prone to problems. However, this also applies to many other modern bolt actions, none of which have been sufficiently longer proven it in the field.

 

[SStomcat]

Opinions are never entirely objective, as they are often influenced by something, especially anything related to Blaser, thanks to effective advertising and sponsorship. The topic Blaser bolt actions is controversial discussed in my countries, primarily because there were initially serious shooting accidents resulting in permanent facial injuries for some. While some things may have improved on the bolt actions from Blaser, a sense of unease remains for some of us. Anyone who hunts under hard conditions and puts a lot of strain on their rifle should opt for very robust bolt actions. Blaser bolt actions are technically very complex and therefore, logically, more prone to problems. However, this also applies to many other modern bolt actions, none of which have been sufficiently longer proven it in the field.

Well put — I’m in the same camp on Heym doubles. Can’t really comment on the bolts (never had one in my hands), but doubles? I recently got to shoot an 89B. Verdict: mostly marketing and glossy brochures wrapped around a shiny trigger.

Give me an old British double with provenance, a careful once-over from JJ (or any half-decent gunsmith), and I’ll trust it any day — same price or cheaper than a Heym, and a lot less drama. The antiques carry character, not PR. They’ve earned their trust the slow, stubborn way: by surviving idiots and bad aim for a century.

If you want reliability, provenance beats polish. If you want bragging rights at the club, buy the brochure — it comes with a complimentary ego.

 

[BlackRhino]

I prefer the Mauser 98 action of a quality maker such as DWM. Its controlled feeding, long claw extractor (modified that the extractor can slip over the case rim in the chamber), fixed magazine floor plate (so that you never loose a round), a three-position safety that operates on the firing pin, barrel band, and a quarter rib with a 50 m rear sight should be added. The trigger system consists only of three parts: the trigger, the trigger bar, and the mounting pin. Aftermarket triggers are certainly smoother, however, have more parts that may cause (very rare) malfunctions. For this action I prefer the .425 Westley Richards as classical round. Longer rounds such as .404 or .375 H&H are also possible, however only by weakening the action! A low power, variable scope with detachable mounts should be added. A modified Enfield, the Mauser Magnum action, the Winchester pre 64 or the ZKK 605 (CZ550) would be my choice, if longer shells are on my wish list. If no financial limits exist I would choose a double rifle of a quality maker. Handling and two separate firing mechanisms are the great benefits.

I do not see any advantage of choosing a modern rifle such the Blaser R8 for dangerous game!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I prefer the Mauser 98 action of a quality maker such as DWM. Its controlled feeding, long claw extractor (modified that the extractor can slip over the case rim in the chamber), fixed magazine floor plate (so that you never loose a round), a three-position safety that operates on the firing pin, barrel band, and a quarter rib with a 50 m rear sight should be added. The trigger system consists only of three parts: the trigger, the trigger bar, and the mounting pin. Aftermarket triggers are certainly smoother, however, have more parts that may cause (very rare) malfunctions. For this action I prefer the .425 Westley Richards as classical round. Longer rounds such as .404 or .375 H&H are also possible, however only by weakening the action! A low power, variable scope with detachable mounts should be added. A modified Enfield, the Mauser Magnum action, the Winchester pre 64 or the ZKK 605 (CZ550) would be my choice, if longer shells are on my wish list. If no financial limits exist I would choose a double rifle of a quality maker. Handling and two separate firing mechanisms are the great benefits.

I do not see any advantage of choosing a modern rifle such the Blaser R8 for dangerous game!

404 Jeffery fits in a standard action 98 Mauser without trimming the locking ring. I know because I built one. Yes, 375 H&H and 416 Rigby do require trimming the locking ring a bit to eject a loaded round but it does NOT "weaken" the action if done properly. For forty years Ruark's Harry Selby used a 416 Rigby on standard action 98 Mauser to back up clients hunting dangerous game. For $25 Duane Wiebe will sell you his booklet on how to convert a standard action 98 Mauser to 375. He does it for a living ... and does it very well.

 

[grand veneur]

Adapting the 416 Rigby cartridge to a standard Mauser 98 action requires considerable skill from the gunsmith. It is not just about shooting, but also about feeding quickly the cartridges without jamming. FN seems to have mastered this, but there was a reason why one designed Mauser Magnum actions for the cartridge 416 Rigby. Cartridges like the 375 H&H Magnum, 404 Jeffery, 425 Westley Richards, or 11,2x72 Schüler are better suited to standard Mauser 98 actions. The cartridge 10,75x68 anyway and without any modification at the Mauser 98 action.

 

[BlackRhino]

404 Jeffery fits in a standard action 98 Mauser without trimming the locking ring. I know because I built one. Yes, 375 H&H and 416 Rigby do require trimming the locking ring a bit to eject a loaded round but it does NOT "weaken" the action if done properly. For forty years Ruark's Harry Selby used a 416 Rigby on standard action 98 Mauser to back up clients hunting dangerous game. For $25 Duane Wiebe will sell you his booklet on how to convert a standard action 98 Mauser to 375. He does it for a living ... and does it very well.

Whenever material of the receiver especially in the locking area is reduced the action is weakened by definition. The question is, whether such modification significantly reduces the strength of the action. Especially when material of the receiver of the upper locking part has to be removed is not my cup of tea. But also removing material from the feeding ramp is not my choice because this part supports the lower locking lug.

One can add some space by altering the rear part of the magazine (or even used a new part) and slightly modify the bolt stop/ejector assembly. However, already without any modification repeating a 98 action feels sloppy.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Whenever material of the receiver especially in the locking area is reduced the action is weakened by definition. The question is, whether such modification significantly reduces the strength of the action. Especially when material of the receiver of the upper locking part has to be removed is not my cup of tea. But also removing material from the feeding ramp is not my choice because this part supports the lower locking lug.

One can add some space by altering the rear part of the magazine (or even used a new part) and slightly modify the bolt stop/ejector assembly. However, already without any modification repeating a 98 action feels sloppy.

To modify the rear of the receiver per your photo requires changing to a longer magnum length extractor. Otherwise the shorter standard length extractor loses its keyway in receiver and the bolt is jammed when locked down. It is necessary to trim a bit of metal from the inside of that ring for fat cartridges/cases (e.g. 404J) to eject ... but beware removing too much metal. Right now I am unable to find any aftermarket sources for magnum length extractors (NECG no longer sells them). I suppose FN must still make them since they still make magnum length Mauser actions. Probably very pricey.

Duane Weibe certifies that removing sufficient metal to allow loading and extracting full length 375 does not compromise the strength of the standard action. Since he has made a career of building these guns, I will take his word for it. Bottom line: the standard length 98 Mauser action was designed to be much stronger than the cartridges it was originally made for.

I suspect relocating the bolt stop rearward is bound to induce some of the sloppiness you complain of. My standard length 404J is very smooth to cycle and no extraordinary sloppiness. I did not relocate or modify either the bolt stop or ejector.

 

[BlueFlyer]

Whenever material of the receiver especially in the locking area is reduced the action is weakened by definition. The question is, whether such modification significantly reduces the strength of the action. Especially when material of the receiver of the upper locking part has to be removed is not my cup of tea. But also removing material from the feeding ramp is not my choice because this part supports the lower locking lug.

There was a gun smith in Melbourne who wanted to prove that if you ream and hone a chamber correctly the case should retain itself in the chamber with minimal back thrust on the bolt. To prove his theory he got a 460WBY barrel and screwed it into a Mauser 96 action. To further prove his point he ground the locking lugs off the front of the bolt. To hold the bolt in position so that the firing pin would inpact the primer he used thin tie wire to hold it in position. He set the test rig up with a long string to pull the trigger.
He pulled the string the 460WBY fired and the bolt stayed in position and the cartridge was intact in the chamber. If the chamber is not polished, but smooth and honed with a chris cross honed pattern, much like a engine cylinder then the back trust will be managable with minimal removal of metal from the bottom lug.
I would prefer a modified Mauser than any Blaser.
I don't suggest that anyone repeats the experiment described above.

 

[fourfive8]

I have always shot all my hunting rifles a lot, year round. Usually only a few rounds each time. There are two parts to rifle reliability- the rifle and the ammo. I have not used a factory round for big game hunting since 1971. All my DG and non-DG big game hunting rifles and ammo are as reliable and trustworthy as I can make them. I completely trust all my hunting rifles. All my DG rifles are CRF bolt guns.

My go to DG rifle is a late New Haven Win 70 in 416 Rem. Pillar bedded, old style Win 70 trigger, w/ low power scope rotated 90 degrees left… keeps turret clear of loading/ejection port. Total cost of rifle ($1200) and scope ($300) = $1500. I bought this rifle used, “low mileage”, scope bought new on sale and I do pillar bedding myself.

 

[colorado]

My CZ550 in 500 Jeffery

And my Remington BDL in 270 Win I bought in 1968. It's the one on the bottom

 

[dgr416]

My take is a scoped large bore double rifle, with a quick detachable scope.. I scoped my .470 Krieghoff with a red dot Leupold...that give you an edge to place shots in dense bush.. OR detach the scope if the bush is darn dense and use the irons..

I took a quick shot at a buffalo cow at about 70m..took her in the neck as she stood in the front of a herd.. I could not have taken such a quick snap shot sanse optics..

View attachment 724590

I also scoped my 9,3 x 74R double..

View attachment 724591

I would NOT trust a non CRF bolt rifle or a Blaser R8 (I will get flogged for this..)

I had two of my control round feed rifles totally jam one model 70 win and a ruger 77 mark II anything can mess up at the wrong time .My push feed 338 win mag ruger 77 has never jammed in 40 years and keeps on hunting .

 

[SStomcat]

I had two of my control round feed rifles totally jam one model 70 win and a ruger 77 mark II anything can mess up at the wrong time .My push feed 338 win mag ruger 77 has never jammed in 40 years and keeps on hunting .

Companies like Blaser, Sauer (same owners) with deep pockets invest heavily in product development. I'm sure their R&D department has evaluated and tested the push feed mechanisms before putting them to use in all calibres, including Blaser's big bores..I will trust them wholeheartedly..

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I'd like to think you and I are on the same page. I fail to see where my response was egocentric - I agree 100% with your original statement, and how is my complimenting you on the nature of your questions not constructive?

Absolutely I have more than one DG rifle I trust and am comfortable with in a given situation.

You have been a member of this forum for longer than I have been hunting so if that makes me a "wannabe" so be it. But this "wannabe" has taken 3 elephants, 8 cape buffalo (including 4 over 40"), a rhino, lion, 6 hippos, the same number of crocs, giraffes, more zebras than I remember, hyenas, ostrich, and a long list of plains game - and that's just Africa. Australia - banteng, water buffalo, camels, donkeys, and a couple sharks. North America - bison, hogs, alligators.

If I'm going to go down the egocentric hole - I might as well go with both feet. To answer your question about being comfortable with more than one calibre or type of DG rifle, and in an effort to demonstrate further - I agree with you, I offer the following.

Here's pictures of two crocodiles I shot on a recent hunt in Mozambique. One was on a sandbar in the middle of the river, my only shot was 228 yds from a goat pen on the bank. I was literally stuck, up to my ass in goat crap and mud, but that provided an extremely stable platform. My rifle? My Heym 375 H&H Bolt. As I am sure you are aware, there are no second chances with crocs.

View attachment 725301

A couple days later I had the opportunity of a larger croc, the only problem - he was on an island 800 yds from shore. We drifted onto the island and then worked our way close - crawling the last bit to get within 20 yds. My rifle? My Heym 450/400 Double.

View attachment 725302

I can't think of any other way to demonstrate it is possible to be confident, comfortable, and to trust more than one rifle.

Here's one of the hippos - Heym 375 H&H

View attachment 725303
If you still find fault or disagree with what I'm saying - so be it. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Franco where did you kill or crocs in Mozambique?

 

[BlueFlyer]

Companies like Blaser, Sauer (same owners) with deep pockets invest heavily in product development. I'm sure their R&D department has evaluated and tested the push feed mechanisms before putting them to use in all calibres, including Blaser's big bores..I will trust them wholeheartedly..

Sleeves sliding down to expand collets to lock into battery - what possibly could go wrong with such a simple design! These guys also designed the Sauer 90.