What rifle do you totally trust on dangerous game and what rifle do you mistrust on Dangerous game

[SStomcat]

No dearth of experts around here, jeez. Guess even plain English needs interpretation now.

The question, "What rifle do YOU totally trust on dangerous game and what rifle do YOU mistrust on dangerous game?", does not ask, "WHY?"

 

[SStomcat]

My brno zkk602 in 416 Rigby. Always with out fail
View attachment 724956

Very nice wood and sure the rifle. I will just probably fill the bolt knob to spruce it further

 

[SStomcat]

I totally trust my Heym 450/400 and my 470NE double rifles f large dangerous game situations and for lion I used ny 375 RUM and had total confidence in that rifle as well.

You have the bestest what’s not to trust them about

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Doug,

Can you picture Uncle Lino, and Uncle Etz armed with double rifles?

You are welcome to try out my doubles anytime.

I'm sure I would love them!

 

[skydiver386]

Military muskets were not designed for accuracy. A double musket would be no less accurate than a single barrel one. Might require more time to fully load a double musket but the soldier could always simply load one barrel if time only allowed it. Quality control for military muskets was never a big item of importance. Certainly would have cost more to manufacture double muskets but would it have been worth it? Perhaps. A flint shatters or only flash in the pan and shooter still has a second barrel he can fire.

The primary reason doubles were not used was because the smoke from the Black Powder used would preclude a rapid second shot in most cases. Everything in front of you would be obscured by a huge white cloud of smoke.

Hunting Dangerous Game at close range back in the Blackpowder days was a completely different affair than what most of us can imagine.

 

[SStomcat]

I would totally trust a good quality double rifle of 400 and above and totally mistrust a bolt rifle of any calibre for DG.

Curious, why no bolt of any calibre?

 

[festuscat]

Complete trust in my 500 NE Double rifle I’ve used over 25 years.

And I don’t distrust my 505 Gibbs, 416 RM or 9.3x62 bolt guns.
But I always carry my 500 with 2 solids

 

[dgr416]

Do you mean in relation to certain types and also brands of rifles? Regardless of caliber, I suppose. This question is not easy to answer objectively. There will certainly be as many different answers as there are people answering.

As far as I am concerned, for me the best rifles for hunting DG are those built on Mauser actions, followed by those built with M1917 Enfield actions or Mannlicher-Schoenauer actions. As the various break-actions are concerned, only the double rifles of well-know gunmakers. All of these rifles have proven themselves in the field over the more than 100 years they have been in use.

At the other end of the spectrum are all these technically complex bolt actions, such as those from Blaser for example, in which I have no trust when hunting DG. This also includes all the cheap very affordable double rifles.

I just ment whats the rifle that you trust the most for your DGR .The one that you use and can always depend your life on .I like 1917 Endfields too I have Elmer Keiths 333 okh belted Magnum .It was made in 1943 .I had to replacd the extractor it broke but its as smooth as glass .I am trying to figure out the scope mount the long action requires extended scope rings which i have not found the right ones yet .

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I'm sure I would love them!

Nd to answer your questions ion, I can't really see either of our two uncles with a double rifle in Pope Valley!

 

[grand veneur]

I just ment whats the rifle that you trust the most for your DGR .The one that you use and can always depend your life on .I like 1917 Endfields too I have Elmer Keiths 333 okh belted Magnum .It was made in 1943 .I had to replacd the extractor it broke but its as smooth as glass .I am trying to figure out the scope mount the long action requires extended scope rings which i have not found the right ones yet .

When it comes to the rifles available for hunting DG in my battery, I trust above all my rifle caliber 460 Weatherby Magnum. This rifle was built in 1974 by Sipp, a well-known gunmaker from Strasbourg/France. The rifle has a perfect bolt action working, allowing a very fast feeding the chamber with this big cartridge. I have been hunting with this rifle for more than thirty years without any issues. On the other side I mistrust my rifle caliber 11,2x72 Schüler for hunting DG. The rifle was built in 1924 by Schüler in Suhl/Germany. The problem is not the cartridge, which is suitable for hunting DG, nor the accuracy, but rather the feeding problems that can occur during fast reloading. This is not uncommon with rifles of this caliber and is due to the greatly rebated rim. I used the rifle once for buffalo hunting; it worked without any problems, but I would only use it again if absolutely nothing else is available. Nevertheless, it is a beautiful, original rifle with certainly a history. Between these two rifles, there are several others, bolt action rifles and double rifles, that I would for different reasons more or less prefer for hunting DG. I am spoiled for choice.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Curious, why no bolt of any calibre?

Hi SStomcat,
Our club does a big bore shoot every month and there are usually around 15 shooters. Two, or occasionally three of us shoot doubles on the course, the rest shoot bolt guns. Calibres spread from 375 to 505 for the bolts, but mostly 375. The doubles are 450/400, 450 No2, 470 and 500.
Without exception, every time at least two of the bolts have problems, usually feeding problems, or exection problems or short stroking in the heat of the moment. The doubles have a very occasional issue, but seem to be far more reliable than the bolts.
I am just stating what I observe. Some have said that the Zim guys don't maintain their bolt guns well, and that is the reason. But then I can assure you they maintain their doubles even less because they don't know what is in that black box.

 

[grand veneur]

With rifles built by gunmakers who are skilled in their craft and have a great experience in big bore rifle manufacturing, you want not encounter any technical problems when feeding. Of course, this assumes you master the handling of your rifle, which is not the case for many shooters by using bolt action like Mauser actions and other older military actions. Many people are too hesitant when feeding. These actions are not used to gentle handling.

As far double rifles are concerned, anyone who has ever looked at the mechanism of a double rifle from the inside, will understand why such rifles should be very well maintained.

 

[grand veneur]

Anyone familiar with Mauser actions, after all the action most commonly used in high-quality bolt action rifles, knows that the cartridge must be knocked out as well as it must be knocked in. Anyone who is too gentle will have problems by feeding.

 

[SStomcat]

Hi SStomcat,
Our club does a big bore shoot every month and there are usually around 15 shooters. Two, or occasionally three of us shoot doubles on the course, the rest shoot bolt guns. Calibres spread from 375 to 505 for the bolts, but mostly 375. The doubles are 450/400, 450 No2, 470 and 500.
Without exception, every time at least two of the bolts have problems, usually feeding problems, or exection problems or short stroking in the heat of the moment. The doubles have a very occasional issue, but seem to be far more reliable than the bolts.
I am just stating what I observe. Some have said that the Zim guys don't maintain their bolt guns well, and that is the reason. But then I can assure you they maintain their doubles even less because they don't know what is in that black box.

Hello Kevin -
Thoughtful Insight, I have a double and 2 bolts. The Double has been flawless, extremely forgiving and robust, no issues at all, even when I have carefully experimented with some hot loads (for fun at the range, of course). Shoots factory loads -Hornady/Norma to 1 MOA at 50 yards.

Of my two bolts, the Sauer 404 in 9.3 has had issues at range; the ammo holder fell off while firing, leading to feeding issues. I fixed it myself by slightly bending the catch latch in the ammo holder.

My other one is a pre-64 30.06, has been flawless, though not a DG gun.
I am probably still a novice compared to all the skilled hunters here still would prefer a double any day, anytime.

 

[Franco]

No dearth of experts around here, jeez. Guess even plain English needs interpretation now.

Isn't this more of a personal preference question? Mr X can be very comfortable with a gun that can be a nuisance to Mr Y. Or someone can be very comfortable with more than one type of gun for DG...

Do you mean in relation to certain types and also brands of rifles? Regardless of caliber, I suppose. This question is not easy to answer objectively. There will certainly be as many different answers as there are people answering.

Sorry if my reference came off as being an "Expert".

My intention was to further support your comment, which I found quite insightful.

Your interpretation of the question (in my opinion) is 100% spot on - it is personal preference. I don't think you can answer the question without referencing a personal experience, be it real or hypothetical.

Grand Veneur's observation pointed out the subtle complexity of the question, and predicted the outcome - look back at the number of different answers.

To answer your question; "Can someone be comfortable with more than one type of DG gun?" The answer is yes. I would cite personal examples but in light of your reaction to my last response I will refrain.

Again, please accept my apology and I hope this provides a better understanding of my intention.

You ask some perseptive questions, I liked your question to Kevin about bolt guns.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Anyone familiar with Mauser actions, after all the action most commonly used in high-quality bolt action rifles, knows that the cartridge must be knocked out as well as it must be knocked in. Anyone who is too gentle will have problems by feeding.

Really? I am "familiar" with my Czech 98 Mauser converted to 406J and my sporterized Springfield 03A3 in 30-06, essentially a Mauser clone (US govt had to pay Mauser for patent infringement). Both are smoother and slicker to cycle than just about every commercially made bolt action I've laid my hands on. Some time back I posted videos of me cycling the Mauser and snapping over on cartridges dropped in the chamber: the definition of effortless and faultless cycling.

However, my mom had another Mauser in 300 Savage built on a cock-on-closing model (small ring?). Yeah, that one required some oomph to cycle! I never could understand how some governments bought into the cock-on-closing = faster cycling myth. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Jhsmith]

And what did Selby use to finish the job? A 416 Rigby caliber standard action right hand 98 Mauser ... that he shot left handed!

Being left-handed and only wanting to own left-handed rifles has saved me a lot of of money.
Don’t tell me that Selby used a right handed rifle.
I don’t need the temptation!

 

[SStomcat]

Sorry if my reference came off as being an "Expert".

My intention was to further support your comment, which I found quite insightful.

Your interpretation of the question (in my opinion) is 100% spot on - it is personal preference. I don't think you can answer the question without referencing a personal experience, be it real or hypothetical.

Grand Veneur's observation pointed out the subtle complexity of the question, and predicted the outcome - look back at the number of different answers.

To answer your question; "Can someone be comfortable with more than one type of DG gun?" The answer is yes. I would cite personal examples but in light of your reaction to my last response I will refrain.

Again, please accept my apology and I hope this provides a better understanding of my intention.

You ask some perseptive questions, I liked your question to Kevin about bolt guns.

No need to apologize — you’re entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. Not answering your personal experience, whether one can be comfortable with more than one calibre or type of DG rifle is your choice, and I respect that.

For me, the answer is a thumping YES. But I’ll admit, I know only a fraction compared to the stalwarts here, which is why I always value constructive feedback over egocentric, wannabe comments.

 

[grand veneur]

Really? I am "familiar" with my Czech 98 Mauser converted to 406J and my sporterized Springfield 03A3 in 30-06, essentially a Mauser clone (US govt had to pay Mauser for patent infringement). Both are smoother and slicker to cycle than just about every commercially made bolt action I've laid my hands on. Some time back I posted videos of me cycling the Mauser and snapping over on cartridges dropped in the chamber: the definition of effortless and faultless cycling.

However, my mom had another Mauser in 300 Savage built on a cock-on-closing model (small ring?). Yeah, that one required some oomph to cycle! I never could understand how some governments bought into the cock-on-closing = faster cycling myth. Makes no sense to me.

Anyone who use a rifle with a Mauser action, but has also used other bolt action rifles, knows what I mean. It is certain that if such actions are well-revised they work more smoothly, but this is not always the case for cheaper, serial-produced rifles with classic Mauser actions. This perhaps explains, among other things, the feeding problems that, according to @Kevin Peacocke , regularly occur by bolt action rifle users.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Anyone who use a rifle with a Mauser action, but has also used other bolt action rifles, knows what I mean. It is certain that if such actions are well-revised they work more smoothly, but this is not always the case for cheaper, serial-produced rifles with classic Mauser actions. This perhaps explains, among other things, the feeding problems that, according to @Kevin Peacocke , regularly occur by bolt action rifle users.

I'm not sure which make actions @Kevin Peacocke was referring to. Specifically Mausers? Since 1964 and after killing literally hundreds of animals and as many or more rounds fired at the range, I can only recall one problem cycling my Springfield 03A3. On my last safari a cartridge momentarily failed to feed when a gemsbuck bull we were after suddenly appeared while my PH was following a herd of wildebeest. When hunting in company of others I typically carry the 30-06 with an empty chamber. Its scope relief wing safety doesn't thrill me. Something went wrong when I tried to chamber a round, but only momentarily. Not sure what was the problem. I quickly got the gun back in action and shot the bull through the neck on the run.