Red Dot & RMR Sights For Dangerous Game Rifles

First trip to the range with new RMR mounted on my .470 yesterday and it was an eye opening experience.

DFACB227-E0FD-45D1-885A-757B4341C09D.jpeg


4 shots at 50yds off of sticks had it sighted in and then I decided to try shooting an 8” steel plate free hand at 100yds …. BOOM!-CLANG!

The sound of those steel plates ringing from 100yds while the rifle is still in recoil is music to my ears and I just keep playing until I ran out of ammo.
 
First trip to the range with new RMR mounted on my .470 yesterday and it was an eye opening experience.

4 shots at 50yds off of sticks had it sighted in and then I decided to try shooting an 8” steel plate free hand at 100yds …. BOOM!-CLANG!

The sound of those steel plates ringing from 100yds while the rifle is still in recoil is music to my ears and I just keep playing until I ran out of ammo.
Welcome to my world. That is the reason I went to red dots over a decade ago on DG rifles.
 
Welcome to my world. That is the reason I went to red dots over a decade ago on DG rifles.
@Tanks and @Mark A Ouellette posts from both of you were the tipping point on going with RMR.

I was about to order a 3.5moa model, then I read your post(Tanks) where you said something to the affect of…

“I received a free 3.5moa sight from Heym, but realized the dot was too large and mounted it on 12ga shotgun instead”

Thank you for posting that because the 1moa is hands down the correct choice.

Mark’s posts on using painters tape to hold the sight in place so I could try the sight at both the breach and rear sight locations before sending it off the the smith was a great tip to have as well as his glowing review of having used the sight for so long.
 
Do I have to to get grooves cut into it?
 
N

Nothing. It clamps directly to that block
Do I have to get grooves cut into the block?I think your rifle has had theoriginal block replaced with a recknagel block.
 
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Passed by a gun store today. Spoke with one of the armorers and they gave the following pointers:

- Mount as far forward as possible, less parallax issues
- There are apparently now even red dot mounts out, that get installed in place of the iron front sight. Ideal in a practical sense, but butt-ugly for the esthetics of the rifle.
- with heavy recoiling rifles, you want a mount as light as possible and an optic as light as possible. More mass that moves, is increasing the risk that a red dot will not hold zero over many sessions of recoil, as it might destroy the connection points to the rifle.
- For my 416 Rigby Vereecke which has pivot mounts, he showed me a red dot mount with a little lever, that allows for a red dot to be mounted on the front (pivot) mount. it was much thinner than expected. I did not measure, but would guess 5mm thickness to add between rifle and red dot. Less than most of the other mounts I have seen.
- Another product they have, is on for use on a rib. No grooves necessary apparently. Just magnets and a lever that clamps it from the side. I'm not too convinced about how well this will hold, but it seemed very solid indeed.

I'm not sure yet what direction I'll take.
 
Mark, Thank you for the very useful info. Brian
 
Red Dot and RMR Sights for Dangerous Game Rifles

View attachment 515571

View attachment 515574
Above photos are Trijocon SRO on Heym 88B

I have been contributing information concerning Red Dot and RMR Sights for Dangerous Game Rifles on a couple of other threads that some AH members may have missed. I figure that this information warrants its own thread, so here you go!

Warning, this isn’t an article about every sight available. I am not a professional writer, as evident my often lack of editing! Nor do any manufacturers send me stuff to use so that I will give them free advertising. Rather, this is based on my experience of a subject that it seems many at AH are not experts. Well neither am I but here’s what I know!

There are Red Dots and there are Red Dots – Reflex and RMR

First there were Reflex sights, commonly known as Red Dot sights that cast an illuminated red dot of light against an almost clear coated screen. There are many other brands available of varying quality. I have seen other competitors suffer a red dot failure during Precision Pistol (Bullseye) matches. Ouch!

Buy once, cry once! Fifty years ago Bell motorcycle helmets’ magazine advertisements catch phrase was, “If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet.” At the time a Bell helmet cost between $30 and $50. Nuff said?

Within the field of Red Dot sights there are what are known as Reflex/Tube and RMR

Reflex Red Dot Sights

While both RMR and Reflex are indeed reflex sights, the larger type is known as Reflex, Tube Red Dots, or simply, Red Dot sights. Technically these are within the category of Reflector Sights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflector_sight

There are also holographic sights which I have never used;
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/red-dots-vs-holographic-sights/
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/article?key=weapon-sights-article
Maybe holographic sights will withstand the recoil of a .500 Nitro?

For bullseye Precision Pistol the Match Dot brand is popular and much less expensive than Aimpoint.

I have a SIG Romeo Reflex. These were on sale for a little over $100 so I bought one. I mounted it on an AR-15 carbine and for that, it works well. If I were seriously relying on this weapon in combat, I would mount a Trijicon or Aimpoint, or brand with similar PROVEN reliability such as the German Docter. This logic is even more applicable for any dangerous game hunt!

This is an Aimpoint Reflex “Red Dot” or “Dot” H-2 sight.
https://aimpoint.us/micro-h-2-red-dot-reflex-sight-6moa-standard-mount/
View attachment 515557

I have a few of the older Aim Point H-1 dot sights that I have competed with.

I may try one of these sight on a double rifle or maybe the CZ 550’s.

View attachment 515558

The bottom two Aim Point H-1 shown above are mounted in LaRue quick release Picatinny rail mounts.

View attachment 515559

All have sun/weather shade tubes pressed into them. These are available from National Pistol Champion John Shue. The shades keep direct sunlight from glaring on them and rain drops off.

The two 1911’s show are from Accuracy X: http://accuracyx.com/
The 6” M1911 in the center is a 10mm Auto that Accuracy X built for me.

The 6" 10mm pistol with a Leupold 2-8x scope is featured in this video hitting NRA 500-yard Silhouette Rifle targets from 500 yards!
.

Ruggedized Miniature Reflex sights (RMR)

Larger Reflex sights were followed by the Ruggedized Miniature Reflex sights or RMR. The term RMR is Trademarked in the USA by Trijicon. They marketed the first RMR. Their current generation RMR Type-2 is used by the US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM, Navy Seals, US Marine Raiders, Green Berets…). I remember the fictional character Rooster Cogburn yelling across the impending field of battle, “Don’t you bet your life on it!” Good logic for dangerous game hunting.

RMR Type-2: https://www.trijicon.com/products/product-family/trijicon-rmr-RM06-RM07-RM09
SRO: https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-sro

Below are Trijicon SRO and RMR Type-2 sights in 14-16mm Trijicon mounts. This size mount fits the ribs on my Heym and Merkel double rifles.
View attachment 515560

JJ Perodeau https://jjperodeau.com/ can mill your double rifle’s rib to accept these mounts.
View attachment 515561

Trijicon SRO mounted on a Heym 88B
View attachment 515576

Light Transmission

The coating on a Trijicon brand sight's view screen is iridium. It may be the same for other brands but I do not know for sure. A red dot is cast or illuminated onto the screen for our eyes to see. The iridium coating does darken the view screen by a small amount that one won’t notice until they try to make a shot at dusk. Then, rather than seeing the game animal, a silhouette may be the only thing visable! It’s happened to me hunting in Limpopo. I still made the shot!

Red Dot Size

A RMR (micro) or traditional Red Dot sight with 3.25 and 6 MOA dot are liked by many shooters, especially for the new trend of RMRs on concealed carry handguns. At 5 yards, these larger dots should be better for instant target acquisition than a more precise, 1 MOA dot. It would be the same if facing an elephant at 20 yards! I prefer 1 MOA dots.

The dots seem to increase in size as their intensity increases. At 100 yards on a bright day my Trijicon RMRs the 1 MOA dots are clearly bigger than that at 100 yards. At 50 yards on a bright day, maybe I could reduce the dot to 1 MOA, maybe. On a dull day or at dusk, I can click those dots to a very tiny size. Bottom line, the brighter the dots, the bigger they appear to my eyes.

I carry my rifle with the dot set at a medium brightness for worst case situation, like an impromptu meeting with Mr. Buffalo! For long shots when I most usually have more time, I click the red dot intensity down to where I can just see it clearly against the target. This gives me a more precise sight picture. I have shot buffalo, giraffe, wildebeast, all at 100 yards to 150 meters. Further, I snap shot two running warthogs with it. Dot intensity is much like the power of a variable rifle scope. Keep them set for worse case, close range shooting!

Trijicon SRO on sale 1 February 2023

Primary Arms has the Trijicon SRO with 1 Minute Dot on sale for $465.
https://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-sro-sight-adjustable-led-1-moa-red-dot

With my state sales tax and Priority Mail shipping the total was $502.
This is the sight I use on my Heym double. The red dot has dozens of adjustments. It can be reduced to a super tiny barely able see pin prick or crank it up to a mini-sun on the extra large view finder. This makes it dynamite for close range and with a tiny dot, very accurate for a double rifle at 100 to 150 meters.

A bonus is that the battery loads from the top! My RMR Type-2 has to be removed from the mount to replace the battery. Granted, this is a once a year task to be safe, and a two to three year task if one waits until a battery fails. Still, one should check their rifle’s zero after removing the RMR from the mount. Chances are due the mounting bosses in the mount and alignment holes in the RMR, it will shoot within an inch or so at 50 meters, it not dead on!

Trijicon SRO RMR
View attachment 515563

RMR mounting Compatibility
There is no standardization of mounting interfaces in the Reflex and RMR industry! The best Reflex or RMR won’t do you any good if you can’t get the right mount for your rifle!

This is a good guide for RMR mounting compatibility:
https://www.cz-parts.com/cz-red-dot-plates-mounts-compatibility-guide

Trijicon SRO and mount
View attachment 515564

Trijicon SRO/RMR mount available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004W59ZL4?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Trijicon RMR for CZ550 from American Hunting Rifles. Notice the quick release lever.
View attachment 515565

Size Difference of Trijicon RMR and SRO

The Trijicon RMR Type-2 (and the older Type-1) have a lower profile than the SRO. The difference is less than 8mm or a third of an inch. The RMRs' shown are in the mounts for 14-16mm Ribs.

I hunted with the SRO in Limpopo, Kalahari, and Zimbabwe. I also mounted both to double rifles and shouldered them dozens if not a hundred of times each in a side by side comparison. The result was that I bought a second SRO.

Trijicon SRO and RMR Type-2
View attachment 515566

View attachment 515568

View attachment 515569

So there it is! I hope this information helps Africa Hunting members make good decisions about Reflex and RMR Red Dot Sights for their dangerous game rifles!
I just wish all red dots had solid clicks for adjustment…none of them do. I have found with both my RMR and SRO they have “mushy” turns which is not as easy to adjust with the precision of a regular scope
 
I just wish all red dots had solid clicks for adjustment…none of them do. I have found with both my RMR and SRO they have “mushy” turns which is not as easy to adjust with the precision of a regular scope
RB, are you sure you have the RMR type 2? Mine has a distinct click. My Kahles did too.
 
I sold my RMR and now have SRO. No clicks
 
Do I have to get grooves cut into the block?I think your rifle has had theoriginal block replaced with a recknagel block.
Ok. Yeah you may be right. Mine does have the block for the scope mount which gives it a slight edge to grab onto. You may need some grooves cut if yours does not have the scope mount
 
First trip to the range with new RMR mounted on my .470 yesterday and it was an eye opening experience.

View attachment 518061

4 shots at 50yds off of sticks had it sighted in and then I decided to try shooting an 8” steel plate free hand at 100yds …. BOOM!-CLANG!

The sound of those steel plates ringing from 100yds while the rifle is still in recoil is music to my ears and I just keep playing until I ran out of ammo.
Wow…at 100 yards…impressive off hand!!! I cannot pull that off
 
I'm wondering about mounting an RMR 2 on a heavy-recoiling Ruger No 1; anyone done any work on this, please?
 
I'm wondering about mounting an RMR 2 on a heavy-recoiling Ruger No 1; anyone done any work on this, please?
I was also concerned about heavy recoil on my 458 Lott and an Reflex sight guys shooting pistol competition shooting over 1000 rounds per weekend don't have any issues and that is a slide that slides back hard and fast then comes to adrubt stop when loaded.

I am sure the recoil on that is much more severe going backwards and forwards all the time while the rifle only has backward recoil.
The Issue I have seen is the mounting system not the sight that is the weakest link.
If the mounting system is good you will be good with a reflex sight.
 
I saw this on Face Book from skinnersights dot com. This isn't on his webpage but he wrote that he will have a few available at SCI Nashville. Unfortunately they won't have a booth there.

"CZ 550 RMR / Trijicon mounts. (Fits the RMR Footprint)
I WILL HAVE A FEW OF THESE WITH ME IN NASHVILLE AT THE SCI CONVENTION NEXT WEEK.
Low and SOLID... No clamps to get loose, not quick release so there is no worries about it coming off when you NEED it on.
Machined from solid barstock. RMR can be removed leaving the base in place. Express Sights are visible over the mount.

This is a screwed on mount, NOT quick release.

Contact Andy Skinner if you need one." I cannot post Andy's contact info here so go to his webpage's Contact section... skinnersights dot com

1676803692640.png


1676803723227.png


1676803747990.png
 
I'm wondering about mounting an RMR 2 on a heavy-recoiling Ruger No 1; anyone done any work on this, please?
The RMR type 1 is no longer available being replaced by the type 2, so unless you buy it used you will be getting a type 2. I've attached a video with a review on the RMRcc, a newer smaller version of the larger RMR type 2 for concealed carry pistols. As you will see in the video (starting at the 14:55 mark) they beat this optic against a 4x4, on purpose, to "field test" the durability. Of course the real test has been handing these optics off to the US armed forces around the world and them performing way beyond whatever I could imagine happening on a safari. The Trijicon RMR series is legendary and I'd trust their products with my life. You will not be disappointed in the durability of the RMR2 on a heavy recoiling rifle.


I will mention the only issue I've had with a red dot is called "dot panic"...not being able to find the dot in such a small window. Trijicon knows about this and has answered the call by making the SRO. It has a larger window that is round and lacks the "ears" that offer the protection on the RMR. The larger window allows the user to pick up the dot quickly at the price of sacrificing a little durability.

Personally, I'd prefer the RMR over the SRO and resign myself to drills for reinforcing proper habits of acquiring the sights. @TOBY458 just put an RMR on his 458WIN Blaser R8 and said he's really enjoying it.
 
Last edited:
Red Dot and RMR Sights for Dangerous Game Rifles

View attachment 515571

View attachment 515574
Above photos are Trijocon SRO on Heym 88B

I have been contributing information concerning Red Dot and RMR Sights for Dangerous Game Rifles on a couple of other threads that some AH members may have missed. I figure that this information warrants its own thread, so here you go!

Warning, this isn’t an article about every sight available. I am not a professional writer, as evident my often lack of editing! Nor do any manufacturers send me stuff to use so that I will give them free advertising. Rather, this is based on my experience of a subject that it seems many at AH are not experts. Well neither am I but here’s what I know!

There are Red Dots and there are Red Dots – Reflex and RMR

First there were Reflex sights, commonly known as Red Dot sights that cast an illuminated red dot of light against an almost clear coated screen. There are many other brands available of varying quality. I have seen other competitors suffer a red dot failure during Precision Pistol (Bullseye) matches. Ouch!

Buy once, cry once! Fifty years ago Bell motorcycle helmets’ magazine advertisements catch phrase was, “If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet.” At the time a Bell helmet cost between $30 and $50. Nuff said?

Within the field of Red Dot sights there are what are known as Reflex/Tube and RMR

Reflex Red Dot Sights

While both RMR and Reflex are indeed reflex sights, the larger type is known as Reflex, Tube Red Dots, or simply, Red Dot sights. Technically these are within the category of Reflector Sights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflector_sight

There are also holographic sights which I have never used;
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/red-dots-vs-holographic-sights/
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/article?key=weapon-sights-article
Maybe holographic sights will withstand the recoil of a .500 Nitro?

For bullseye Precision Pistol the Match Dot brand is popular and much less expensive than Aimpoint.

I have a SIG Romeo Reflex. These were on sale for a little over $100 so I bought one. I mounted it on an AR-15 carbine and for that, it works well. If I were seriously relying on this weapon in combat, I would mount a Trijicon or Aimpoint, or brand with similar PROVEN reliability such as the German Docter. This logic is even more applicable for any dangerous game hunt!

This is an Aimpoint Reflex “Red Dot” or “Dot” H-2 sight.
https://aimpoint.us/micro-h-2-red-dot-reflex-sight-6moa-standard-mount/
View attachment 515557

I have a few of the older Aim Point H-1 dot sights that I have competed with.

I may try one of these sight on a double rifle or maybe the CZ 550’s.

View attachment 515558

The bottom two Aim Point H-1 shown above are mounted in LaRue quick release Picatinny rail mounts.

View attachment 515559

All have sun/weather shade tubes pressed into them. These are available from National Pistol Champion John Shue. The shades keep direct sunlight from glaring on them and rain drops off.

The two 1911’s show are from Accuracy X: http://accuracyx.com/
The 6” M1911 in the center is a 10mm Auto that Accuracy X built for me.

The 6" 10mm pistol with a Leupold 2-8x scope is featured in this video hitting NRA 500-yard Silhouette Rifle targets from 500 yards!
.

Ruggedized Miniature Reflex sights (RMR)

Larger Reflex sights were followed by the Ruggedized Miniature Reflex sights or RMR. The term RMR is Trademarked in the USA by Trijicon. They marketed the first RMR. Their current generation RMR Type-2 is used by the US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM, Navy Seals, US Marine Raiders, Green Berets…). I remember the fictional character Rooster Cogburn yelling across the impending field of battle, “Don’t you bet your life on it!” Good logic for dangerous game hunting.

RMR Type-2: https://www.trijicon.com/products/product-family/trijicon-rmr-RM06-RM07-RM09
SRO: https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-sro

Below are Trijicon SRO and RMR Type-2 sights in 14-16mm Trijicon mounts. This size mount fits the ribs on my Heym and Merkel double rifles.
View attachment 515560

JJ Perodeau https://jjperodeau.com/ can mill your double rifle’s rib to accept these mounts.
View attachment 515561

Trijicon SRO mounted on a Heym 88B
View attachment 515576

Light Transmission

The coating on a Trijicon brand sight's view screen is iridium. It may be the same for other brands but I do not know for sure. A red dot is cast or illuminated onto the screen for our eyes to see. The iridium coating does darken the view screen by a small amount that one won’t notice until they try to make a shot at dusk. Then, rather than seeing the game animal, a silhouette may be the only thing visable! It’s happened to me hunting in Limpopo. I still made the shot!

Red Dot Size

A RMR (micro) or traditional Red Dot sight with 3.25 and 6 MOA dot are liked by many shooters, especially for the new trend of RMRs on concealed carry handguns. At 5 yards, these larger dots should be better for instant target acquisition than a more precise, 1 MOA dot. It would be the same if facing an elephant at 20 yards! I prefer 1 MOA dots.

The dots seem to increase in size as their intensity increases. At 100 yards on a bright day my Trijicon RMRs the 1 MOA dots are clearly bigger than that at 100 yards. At 50 yards on a bright day, maybe I could reduce the dot to 1 MOA, maybe. On a dull day or at dusk, I can click those dots to a very tiny size. Bottom line, the brighter the dots, the bigger they appear to my eyes.

I carry my rifle with the dot set at a medium brightness for worst case situation, like an impromptu meeting with Mr. Buffalo! For long shots when I most usually have more time, I click the red dot intensity down to where I can just see it clearly against the target. This gives me a more precise sight picture. I have shot buffalo, giraffe, wildebeast, all at 100 yards to 150 meters. Further, I snap shot two running warthogs with it. Dot intensity is much like the power of a variable rifle scope. Keep them set for worse case, close range shooting!

Trijicon SRO on sale 1 February 2023

Primary Arms has the Trijicon SRO with 1 Minute Dot on sale for $465.
https://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-sro-sight-adjustable-led-1-moa-red-dot

With my state sales tax and Priority Mail shipping the total was $502.
This is the sight I use on my Heym double. The red dot has dozens of adjustments. It can be reduced to a super tiny barely able see pin prick or crank it up to a mini-sun on the extra large view finder. This makes it dynamite for close range and with a tiny dot, very accurate for a double rifle at 100 to 150 meters.

A bonus is that the battery loads from the top! My RMR Type-2 has to be removed from the mount to replace the battery. Granted, this is a once a year task to be safe, and a two to three year task if one waits until a battery fails. Still, one should check their rifle’s zero after removing the RMR from the mount. Chances are due the mounting bosses in the mount and alignment holes in the RMR, it will shoot within an inch or so at 50 meters, it not dead on!

Trijicon SRO RMR
View attachment 515563

RMR mounting Compatibility
There is no standardization of mounting interfaces in the Reflex and RMR industry! The best Reflex or RMR won’t do you any good if you can’t get the right mount for your rifle!

This is a good guide for RMR mounting compatibility:
https://www.cz-parts.com/cz-red-dot-plates-mounts-compatibility-guide

Trijicon SRO and mount
View attachment 515564

Trijicon SRO/RMR mount available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004W59ZL4?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Trijicon RMR for CZ550 from American Hunting Rifles. Notice the quick release lever.
View attachment 515565

Size Difference of Trijicon RMR and SRO

The Trijicon RMR Type-2 (and the older Type-1) have a lower profile than the SRO. The difference is less than 8mm or a third of an inch. The RMRs' shown are in the mounts for 14-16mm Ribs.

I hunted with the SRO in Limpopo, Kalahari, and Zimbabwe. I also mounted both to double rifles and shouldered them dozens if not a hundred of times each in a side by side comparison. The result was that I bought a second SRO.

Trijicon SRO and RMR Type-2
View attachment 515566

View attachment 515568

View attachment 515569

So there it is! I hope this information helps Africa Hunting members make good decisions about Reflex and RMR Red Dot Sights for their dangerous game rifles!
Mark, thank you for this information. Your time and effort is much appreciated!
 
The RMR type 1 is no longer available being replaced by the type 2, so unless you buy it used you will be getting a type 2. I've attached a video with a review on the RMRcc, a newer smaller version of the larger RMR type 2 for concealed carry pistols. As you will see in the video (starting at the 14:55 mark) they beat this optic against a 4x4, on purpose, to "field test" the durability. Of course the real test has been handing these optics off to the US armed forces around the world and them performing way beyond whatever I could imagine happening on a safari. The Trijicon RMR series is legendary and I'd trust their products with my life. You will not be disappointed in the durability of the RMR2 on a heavy recoiling rifle.


I will mention the only issue I've had with a red dot is called "dot panic"...not being able to find the dot in such a small window. Trijicon knows about this and has answered the call by making the SRO. It has a larger window that is round and lacks the "ears" that offer the protection on the RMR. The larger window allows the user to pick up the dot quickly at the price of sacrificing a little durability.

Personally, I'd prefer the RMR over the SRO and resign myself to drills for reinforcing proper habits of acquiring the sights. @TOBY458 just put an RMR on his 458WIN Blaser R8 and said he's really enjoying it.
Interesting. I had the RMR on a number of handguns, I'm now favoring the SRO for that bigger sight picture generally. The RMR is rumored to be more durable but no one truly knows.

For the R8, I've got the Blaser BD20 running and its great. Built mount and the height is the same as your scopes. Same BS Blaser prices but the one piece of glass from B that I really like. If we can get a range day set, I'll bring it for you to try.
 
The only disadvantage I can see with the SRO is the extra height over the RMR
I've heard (never personally seen) of some durability issues with the SRO being hit hard on the top of the optic resulting in a cracked or broken lens. This would be less likely with the RMR because of the ears protecting the top edges of the lens. At the same time there are those that treat the SRO just as harsh as the RMR and have no problems at all.

In the end it's a trade off that the end user will need to make a decision on. The good news is that they are both Trijicon products and extremely durable. For Africa, I don't think you would make a bad choice with either one.
 

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