Why was 9mm Short developed?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Gert Odendaal, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Good day Members.
    A question? What is the reason for developing/manufacturing a 9mm short pistol if there are a 9mm Parabellum ? The 9×19mm Parabellum is the benchmark for the pistols today. How available is ammo /brass for the 9mm short pistol today??(y):LOL:
     

  2. Saul

    Saul AH Enthusiast

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    Do you mean like the .380?
     

  3. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Yes, you are correct, I did look at u-tube videos and saw it is indicated as a .380 ACP and 9x17 mm , it seems to be popular in Europe than in America....
     

  4. Saul

    Saul AH Enthusiast

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    I think they call it 9mm Kurtz over there.
     
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  5. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Did some looking around in my country, South Africa, it seems this caliber is quite popular here..even ammo is available and not too expensive at all..this is my wife`s pistol and she shoots it quite accurate...at least I can purchase enough rounds to reload for this pistol...(y)(y)
     

  6. Art Lambart II

    Art Lambart II AH Fanatic

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    The round we know today as the 380 ACP was developed by the legendary firearms designer John Browning for a new pocket pistol sometime around 1902. The ACP stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol" we see the same nomenclature on Browning most famous pistol the model 1911 45 ACP. The 9mm parabellum was developed around the same time in Europe for another legendary military firearm the P-08 Luger.

    The 380 ACP works well and was developed for small, light weight pocket pistol but in my opinion it really shines in a medium frame pistol like the Browning 380 or the CZ83.
     
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  7. Saul

    Saul AH Enthusiast

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    You cannot forget the Walther PPK/S in .380
     
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  8. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Or the Walther PP and PPK. Where would James Bond be without them? This caliber is very popular in the U.S primarily being used for personal protection. Most of the manufacturers make batch runs. Unfortunately sometimes all of the distributors and dealers run out of stock. That is why I reload it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
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  9. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Enthusiast

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    It was designed for two basic reasons:

    1. To give more knockdown power on blowback type of pistols which generally use less powerful munition.
    2. To fit in action and magazines of blow back pistols of that time.

    Typical examples are:
    Beretta m 34 / m 35, or colts earlier designs of pocket pistols (before colt 1911)

    Generally speaking original design of pistol would be blowback for 32 acp (7.65 x 17), then "improved" version 380 acp (9x17) .
    They go in the same group with 25 acp (6.35x16.5 mm SR), of lower powered ammo, for blow back pistols.

    Cartridges in the rank od 9x19, 45 acp and more, are diferent category of "Big Boys" and will generally need barrel locking mechanism in pistols, thus - different pistol design and type. This category is of real men stopper, service issue, while blow back toys are more of civilian SD use in close quarters.

    Genrally, 9x17 is as much as it can get in blow back.
     
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  10. BigJohnx13

    BigJohnx13 AH Veteran

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    The reason is the way the blowback system works if i recall correctly. Both works with a blowback system, but the 9mmP needs a locking block to delay the blowback till the pressure drop to a safe level. The 9mmS works on a direct blowback without the locking block using a safe lower pressure to move the slide backwards. Something like the old UZI and MP40 used called direct blowback. I think also some of the 9mmS have the barrel fixed to the frame where the 9mmP barrel have the rearward movement in them.
     
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  11. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Gentleman, thank you kindly for these informative replies, it really is much, much appreciated.(y)(y)(y)(y)
     

  12. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Gert: Why the 9mm kurtz or 380 ACP? Because all the hunters with a 404 Jeffery need to safely get out of OR Tambo without being mugged or robbed! :whistle:

    When I first bought a little Ruger LCP, I think it took about 6 months until I found any ammo for it. This was 2009, during the Obama ammo shortage.

    For those that think the 380 ACP is an underpowered cartridge, not capable of much, historians like to point out that the 380 ACP was the cartridge that started World War I. The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, which triggered WWI, was done with a Browning FN 1910 and the 380 ACP.
     
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  13. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    .375 Ruger fan, so you are an owner of a 404 Jeffery? Why not then be 404 Jeffery/Ruger fan???? (y)(y) I saw yesterday why the .380 ACP seems to be a great carry pistol for back-up/SD...my wife shot it only for the second time and she achieved great accuracy with no recoil...I am also fortunate to get ammo for real great prices here in South Africa..I will be purchasing a lot of ammo and start reloading when my wife shot them all at targets ...the cheapest ammo being PMP 95gn FMJ rounds at R140 /25 rounds..really cheap...(y)(y)(y)
     

  14. Nyati

    Nyati AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I had one, very good, compact handgun !
     

  15. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Gert: No, I don't own a 404.................yet. A conversion project might be one of my first projects after I retire in a few years. You wouldn't want to trade one of your 404s for my Ruger LCP, would you? I'll even throw in a bunch of 380 ACP ammo.
     

  16. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    375Ruger fan, you have to come and shoot a 404 Jeffery at JS Gunsmith first...we have 404 Jeffery rifles available at great prices...(y)(y) As pointed out previously, Johan Greyling wants a person to shoot the 404 Jeffery rifle he wants to purchase first, if he /she is satisfied the person can purchase the rifle...reason being: It is not a good practice to send a rifle abroad to another country and the new owner is not satisfied with how the rifle looks, shoots or handles...these are great working rifles...no gold inlays..but excellent and accurate dangerous game rifles...you will need to trade quite a few of your Ruger LCP pistols to sweeten the deal..but for $1940 it is a good price..(y)
     

  17. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    @Gert Odendaal Was this a quid pro quo for buying your latest rifle? :D If so ... what do you have to buy her, in order to buy/build your next toy? :A Stirring: :D Beers:
     

  18. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    ZG47, man I like it if a person has a talent to read between the lines...if I get my wife to start shooting, be it a pistol, rifle or shotgun it definitely will make it much easier for me to get her to see how important and beneficial it will be for us both to purchase a 6.5 x 55 Creedmoore , this rifle will be especially a great caliber for her to shoot is since there is about zero recoil...and she can learn to shoot out to longer distances as well...a win, win scenario for both of us..especially for her ...everything I do , I do for her ...:LOL::LOL:(y)(y)
     
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  19. cagkt3

    cagkt3 AH ENABLER PLATINUM SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Been there done that Gert! And by the way, you are right - the 6.5 Creedmoor is a great caliber!
     

  20. Clayton

    Clayton AH Fanatic

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    One driving factor was that most Military & Law Enforcement "ranking" officers do not carry full size side arms. The .32 ACP was considered small for the job so a short 9mm fit the bill perfectly. And yes, the PP & PPK were and still are excellent little weapons for these rounds.
     
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