Why avoid Hornady DG bullets and ammunition?

WAB

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Who knows, maybe the new bonded DGX has solved their problem. I will never know as my experience with the old DGX cured me of their DG bullets forever. I’ve never seen such poor performance, and that’s not a single bullet, that’s with all 4 bullets recovered.
 

Eric Anderson

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Certainly much smaller. But it seems Swift, Barnes, Woodleigh and the much smaller companies of Cutting Edge Bullets and North Fork Bullets have figured it out. More expensive bullets are they? For sure they are, but a small cost in comparison to the cost of a DG hunt.
Not to be cross, but that is how expenses balloon on any Safari. I think I have purchased 250 DG bullets for my .375 in a year. That is not a lot. I can blow through that much 5.56 in an afternoon.
Very few people buy any amount of bullets over .30 cal.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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Not to be cross, but that is how expenses balloon on any Safari. I think I have purchased 250 DG bullets for my .375 in a year. That is not a lot. I can blow through that much 5.56 in an afternoon.
Very few people buy any amount of bullets over .30 cal.

If you're buying factory ammunition, for sure that can happen. But if you handload and make use of websites like this one, you can get lots of information for developing loads. Generally if a bullet is going to work for me, I can find a load within one box. But one more and I'm set for that rifle for it's next hunt. Even if they're expensive North Forks, I'm less than $200 into bullets.

I won't compromise on a DG bullet to save a few dollars. If you don't want to load your own, there are other paths. There's a number of custom ammo makers that will build you a load, just ask @johnnyblues about his experience.
 

Michael Dean

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The only way that Hornady is going to change it's product is if people stop buying it. It's a simple matter of economics. As long as people are foolish enough to pay good money for a substandard product they will continue to manufacture it. People need to speak with their pocketbooks and stop paying good money for this garbage. Time and again people have told horror stories about these bullets failures; yet some people continue to support the company and it's product.
I will not purchase anything with the Hornady label. The brass they produce is substandard. Open any box and you'll find cases that are dented and deformed. They continue to produce it because people continue to buy it. Its sad that so many people will accept second class merchandise. It's cheaper than other brands so they think they are getting a deal. I purchase quality, even if it does come at a higher price.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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The only way that Hornady is going to change it's product is if people stop buying it. It's a simple matter of economics. As long as people are foolish enough to pay good money for a substandard product they will continue to manufacture it. People need to speak with their pocketbooks and stop paying good money for this garbage. Time and again people have told horror stories about these bullets failures; yet some people continue to support the company and it's product.
I will not purchase anything with the Hornady label. The brass they produce is substandard. Open any box and you'll find cases that are dented and deformed. They continue to produce it because people continue to buy it. Its sad that so many people will accept second class merchandise. It's cheaper than other brands so they think they are getting a deal. I purchase quality, even if it does come at a higher price.

At least on the DGX they did change and went to a bonded version. So far Kevin Robertson seems to be pleased. Outside of his opinion, I've not seen anything in the way of field reports from other hunters. For me that means the jury is still out. Regardless I'm glad Hornady at least responded even if as some say that Hornady reps were heard saying "it wasn't needed."

As far as bent brass goes, if it's loosely packed, that's going to happen. If each piece is in a styrofoam case such as you'll find with brass manufacturers, well that's another story, that would not be good.
 

375 Ruger Fan

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The only way that Hornady is going to change it's product is if people stop buying it. It's a simple matter of economics. As long as people are foolish enough to pay good money for a substandard product they will continue to manufacture it. People need to speak with their pocketbooks and stop paying good money for this garbage. Time and again people have told horror stories about these bullets failures; yet some people continue to support the company and it's product.
I will not purchase anything with the Hornady label. The brass they produce is substandard. Open any box and you'll find cases that are dented and deformed. They continue to produce it because people continue to buy it. Its sad that so many people will accept second class merchandise. It's cheaper than other brands so they think they are getting a deal. I purchase quality, even if it does come at a higher price.

@Michael Dean : Don't completely agree with you on this.........and that's okay. We are all entitled to our own opinions, based on whatever our experience is with the products. I for one really like a lot of Hornady products, particularly the SST bullet. Most of the critters hanging on the wall are one shot kills with the SST. There are also a few I don't like, namely the DGX. Actually, that isn't even true. I like the DGX because it is the least costly factory ammo for my 375 Ruger and 404 Jeff and I use to punch paper on the range. I think Hornady has done more for hunting and shooting than a lot of other bullet/ammo companies. I buy a lot of Hornady ammo for 6 or 7 different calibers, usually from Midway, and haven't seen the dented or deformed brass problem you have.
 

Eric Anderson

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If you're buying factory ammunition, for sure that can happen. But if you handload and make use of websites like this one, you can get lots of information for developing loads. Generally if a bullet is going to work for me, I can find a load within one box. But one more and I'm set for that rifle for it's next hunt. Even if they're expensive North Forks, I'm less than $200 into bullets.

I won't compromise on a DG bullet to save a few dollars. If you don't want to load your own, there are other paths. There's a number of custom ammo makers that will build you a load, just ask @johnnyblues about his experience.
That is exactly why I went straight to handloading with my .375.
Buying 5 boxes of factory softs, and 5 boxes of factory solids to see which combination groups well and has very similar poi between softs and solids can set you back close to $1000. That is significant. That is about 8% of my cost for a Buffalo last time I went. (Trophy fee, daily rates, and taxidermy).

If you already reload, you can get to the same point for under $200, including buying a few extra pounds of powder. I only had 1 suitable powder before I bought my 375 because I disnt already own anything bigger than my 30-06 at the time.

Regardless, finding a good load is a significant expense, and you can easily buckle and dime your way to almost doubling the cost of your trip by going for extras.
So people who are looking for ways to stay withen budget may buy Hornady DGX bullets. They are accurate bullets, and there smaller caliber bullets work really well. So they don’t see an issue.
My favorite load for my 30-06 is 150 grain speed hot cores. The jacket almost always separates under 100 yards. I don’t care on white tail, it looks like a grenade went off in their chest cavity, and those deer are almost always DRT. Never had one make it more than 10 yards.

Jacket separation on a broadside shot on a whitetail may actually be benificial. Not so on a Buffalo though.

Very few US hunters have any other experience than white tails though. That is why they continue to buy bullets like the Hornady DGX imho.

That bullet design is fine for deer, but not so good for tougher animals.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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That is exactly why I went straight to handloading with my .375.
Buying 5 boxes of factory softs, and 5 boxes of factory solids to see which combination groups well and has very similar poi between softs and solids can set you back close to $1000. That is significant. That is about 8% of my cost for a Buffalo last time I went. (Trophy fee, daily rates, and taxidermy).

If you already reload, you can get to the same point for under $200, including buying a few extra pounds of powder. I only had 1 suitable powder before I bought my 375 because I disnt already own anything bigger than my 30-06 at the time.

Regardless, finding a good load is a significant expense, and you can easily buckle and dime your way to almost doubling the cost of your trip by going for extras.
So people who are looking for ways to stay withen budget may buy Hornady DGX bullets. They are accurate bullets, and there smaller caliber bullets work really well. So they don’t see an issue.
My favorite load for my 30-06 is 150 grain speed hot cores. The jacket almost always separates under 100 yards. I don’t care on white tail, it looks like a grenade went off in their chest cavity, and those deer are almost always DRT. Never had one make it more than 10 yards.

Jacket separation on a broadside shot on a whitetail may actually be benificial. Not so on a Buffalo though.

Very few US hunters have any other experience than white tails though. That is why they continue to buy bullets like the Hornady DGX imho.

That bullet design is fine for deer, but not so good for tougher animals.

Any criticism I've made regarding Hornady has been mostly about the DGX, older non-bonded version and to a somewhat lesser extent the DGS. Regarding the rest of their bullets, I've not used them nor have I taken much interest in them and have no opinion on them.
 

Paul Homsy

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The only way that Hornady is going to change it's product is if people stop buying it. It's a simple matter of economics. As long as people are foolish enough to pay good money for a substandard product they will continue to manufacture it. People need to speak with their pocketbooks and stop paying good money for this garbage. Time and again people have told horror stories about these bullets failures; yet some people continue to support the company and it's product.
I will not purchase anything with the Hornady label. The brass they produce is substandard. Open any box and you'll find cases that are dented and deformed. They continue to produce it because people continue to buy it. Its sad that so many people will accept second class merchandise. It's cheaper than other brands so they think they are getting a deal. I purchase quality, even if it does come at a higher price.

This isn't about the DGX bullets with which I have no experience.
I usually reload for whatever I use for hunting. However, I was curious to see what the Superformance ammunition Hornady manufactures was all about. I read from some that the primer pockets were loose after one firing, that the primers were cratered, that there was a black ring around the primer after firing, that the cases came out deformed and covered with powder residue, that the loads were too hot...And on and on.

I satisfied my curiosity by buying a few boxes of 300 Win Mag Hornady Superformance both in 180 grains SST and 165 grains GMX.
The SST is supposed to fly at 3130 fps from the muzzle. I obtained out of three shots the following; 3128 (fouling shot), 3133, 3134 and what I consider exceptional accuracy. No dented cases, no flattened primers, nothing unpleasant.

The 165 grains GMX is supposed to fly at 3260 fps. The speeds I obtained were 3259 and 3262. The accuracy was better than my best reloads. One hole. The cases were in superb shape and the primers did not show any sign of a load that could have been too hot. None whatsoever. I know what to look for. I also measured the cases for expansion at the base above the belt and in different sections of the case. Expansion was within 3/1000th to 3.5/1000th at its widest above the belt. In other words, perfect. This isn't strictly a function of the chamber but a result of good ammunition.

For both loads, the recoil was quite inferior than lesser quality ammunition in the same caliber, at lower speeds. Feeding and extraction were both very smooth, uneventful and flawless.

I disagree with your claim that the brass Hornady produces is "substandard". That the cases they produce are dented and deformed. Of the six boxes I shot, all were in superb condition. Their primer pockets, after firing, are tight. These cases are in pristine condition. Well above average.

Over the decades I've been shooting, I have on occasion tried manufacturers' ammunition and without exception, this ammunition fell short of their claims both in speed and accuracy. Hornady has been the exact opposite. Your criticism is too broad and is very contrary to my personal experience. I'm not interested to write purely to contradict someone. But I am qualified after many decades of shooting, competing and producing my own wildcat as well as shooting several in a variety of calibers big and small, to give a personal educated view which happens not to coincide with yours.

Hornady's claims that their Superformance ammunition is faster than conventional ammunition but recoils less has been my personal experience. I bought all the boxes I shot. No one is paying me to shoot their ammunition. I will definitely hunt with this ammunition, it is outstanding, very fast, reliable, repeatable, accurate at short and extended range, also faster than my best 300 Win Mag reloads.
 
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IvW

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This is about DG hunting with Hornady ammo and not deer hunting...

There are so many better proven choices for DG hunting, personally I do not even bother experimenting with them as I use bullets that work and have proven themselves on DG.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
 

Paul Homsy

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My post was about the quality of the cases and ammunition which isn't limited to dangerous game. I understand that some aren't satisfied with the GMX bullet. Some aren't satisfied with Nosler Partitions. I have been very satisfied with Nosler products for big and small, deer and dangerous game. I appreciate the reference to deer but it isn't my primary quarry. I use several 300s for a lot of my shooting.

I don't limit myself to any manufacturer. Like most I pick what works for me.

I agree; "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
 
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IvW

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In this day and age both are poor choices for DG hunting
 

Paul Homsy

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I use Swift A frames and Barnes more often these days but Nosler Partitions have served me very well.
 

IvW

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Why avoid Hornady DG bullets and ammunition?

They do not work as good as other premium grade bullets available irrespective of the price which should be the last consideration for a DG hunt. By all means use them for practice and preparation but when it gets down to crunch time on DG use the best proven bullets that are available and unfortunately in my book Hornady DG bullets do not make the cut...

My personal opinion..I do not use them and I also do not recommend them.
 

Paul Homsy

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No arguments from me regarding the DGX which I've never used. My post was in reference to my experience with the quality of the cases and ammunition starting with a disclaimer about the DGX.

If it is so many people's experience, I wont bother to try it.
 

tarbe

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It would be helpful if we could all remember this thread is about Hornady DG ammo/bullets.

Before you know it we’ll be talking about Coyote hunting! :ROFLMAO:
 

Ygg

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Of course there's an energy transfer, physics tells us that but it's not deadly a deadly force as referenced by an energy dump.. No doubt small blood vessels in the temporary wound channel burst but so too do they when you get a bruise! Larger holes are most easily attributed to tearing as a result or stretching tissue and no doubt from from hydraulic transfer but regardless,that happens as the bullet passes through the affected tissue...not by some massive dump. Velocity plays a much bigger role in hydraulic transfer......it causes the liquid in the tissue to move at a more rapid rate, increasing the reach of the temporary wound channel. The bullet passing through or remaining inside means little when referencing energy...especially as a killing force.

I think what they mean by energy dump is not adequately described by 'egg vs baseball'. This is like comparing a cardboard vs a lead bullet and a bit silly. Would you rather get smashed into a brick wall by a run away truck or have an x-ray particle moving at the speed of light penetrate your body? The x-ray has tons of velocity but very little ability to transfer this velocity into usable kinetic energy. This is silly as well.

Energy Dump, (transfer), is the reduction of velocity to zero of a given amount of mass in motion to another medium. Try catching a baseball bare handed and not let your hand move. Then do it again and allow your hand to retract away and your body rotate. Which will hurt more? Both examples stop the ball but the second allows the shedding of energy through motion over time. In effect an energy sink.

Look at those funky bullets that create an energy bubble. Solids by Woodleigh that have a cup at the tip and concave around the front. They produce hydrostatic shock AND deep straight penetration through the target. Its the energy transfer of the projectile that creates the wound channel and it appears to be wicked. Best of both worlds? I don't know as I cant afford 2 gaziullion dollars per bullet. Its cheeper to up the caliber and then you have another gun! (Just kidding but they are expensive).

Two holes is often better than one and in a perfect scenario, all other things being equal, a bullet just falling out the other side would be the best of everything I suppose. Two holes and maximum energy transfer to the body. But how does one do that considering the variables of the possible targets and angles of penetration?

I can tell you from my personal limited experience that my arrows usually go all the way through deer but they run aways (except when I hit the spine. That one just fell but I had to follow up with a kill shot). A heavy bullet will often drop them especially if it hits a solid bone or through the neck. I always though this was due to shock, which is due to energy transfer unless I am mistaken. Which I certainly could be. Some of the bolt cut a lot of tissue but the slices seal much better than a gaping loss of tissue.

All other things being equal I would personally rather the bullet have complete pass-through than not.

Either way, guys have been arguing big and slow vs little and fast for far longer that I have been alive and I have a feeling will for quite a bit after I'm burnt. The end result is the end result and our truth is based upon what we have personally experienced or what others have told us and we choose to believe. (How do you KNOW those tiny pinpricks of light are the suns of other solar systems? Because he told me so. And how does he know? Because someone told...) If a man drops 5 tigers with a 22 and then hits one with a 415 but it escapes he will argue the superiority of the 22 till he runs out of breath, and in his personal experience he will be justified and correct. Buy I wont try it....
 
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Witold Krzyżanowski

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I see nothing whatsoever wrong with the Hornady DGS. As for the DGX, though, the empirical seems to indicate that this is a more fickle projectile, especially at higher velocities.

As an aside, it seems as though the DGX is Hornady's take on the A-Square Dead Tough bullet of yesteryear (a thin-jacketed nose willing to expand, backed by a thick-jacketed core definitely not). I wonder if the Dead Tough had any similar issues (likely not because there's more to it than jacket profile alone, but I'm curious).
+1
 

Longwalker

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There is certainly no love for the old style Hornady DGX in this discussion, and I understand why. Too many failures a few years ago. I may have missed it, but I did not read a single post that discusses the merit / failures of the currently produced Hornady DGX bonded. My understanding is that Hornady did actually respond to the problem, and came out with an improved bullet with bonded core & jacket that is designed to prevent core separations. I also did not read anything that would cause me to question using the DGS, except for comments that other solid bullets are "better". I have had no problems with Hornady ammunition in several smaller calibers, like .222, .308, 7x57, 9.3x62, and it has served me well. I have no particular brand loyalty to Hornady, but do have a dilemma.
I have a Merkel 450-400 3" double rifle and Hornady is the one factory load available to me in Canada. (it seems that the new Kynoch ammo is not sold here) My rifle is regulated with the Hornady factory loads.
So please advise me, I was planning to take this rifle to Namibia in October and use it for hunting buffalo and elephant. Loaded with DGX bonded for buffalo and DGS solids for elephant. Is there a current practical argument for leaving this rifle at home or should I have sufficient confidence in the Hornady solid and bonded soft at 2050-2100 fps while hunting big dangerous game?
 

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There is certainly no love for the old style Hornady DGX in this discussion, and I understand why. Too many failures a few years ago. I may have missed it, but I did not read a single post that discusses the merit / failures of the currently produced Hornady DGX bonded. My understanding is that Hornady did actually respond to the problem, and came out with an improved bullet with bonded core & jacket that is designed to prevent core separations. I also did not read anything that would cause me to question using the DGS, except for comments that other solid bullets are "better". I have had no problems with Hornady ammunition in several smaller calibers, like .222, .308, 7x57, 9.3x62, and it has served me well. I have no particular brand loyalty to Hornady, but do have a dilemma.
I have a Merkel 450-400 3" double rifle and Hornady is the one factory load available to me in Canada. (it seems that the new Kynoch ammo is not sold here) My rifle is regulated with the Hornady factory loads.
So please advise me, I was planning to take this rifle to Namibia in October and use it for hunting buffalo and elephant. Loaded with DGX bonded for buffalo and DGS solids for elephant. Is there a current practical argument for leaving this rifle at home or should I have sufficient confidence in the Hornady solid and bonded soft at 2050-2100 fps while hunting big dangerous game?

I shot 8 elephants with hornady dgs (500NE). They are all dead and I never had to follow a wounded elephant.
 

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