TSS ammo...is it worth it?

Is TSS worth it?

  • Love it & use it regardless of the price

    Votes: 23 46.0%
  • Love it, but it's too expensive

    Votes: 11 22.0%
  • On the fence, could go either way

    Votes: 3 6.0%
  • Not worth the price at all, I'll stick with what I'm using

    Votes: 13 26.0%

  • Total voters
    50
I wonder why he would go to the expense to drive all the way up to Stevensville, MI to buy it when they offered free shipping. Now they have bumped it up to $10 on all orders.

I imagine the shipping on a palette might be on the expensive side. I might be wrong on this but I believe the palette is somewhere between 20-40 cases. They are a one stop shop, this outfitter. Don't have a gun? No problem. Got your own ammo? OK but we prefer you to use ours (probably at a markup). No waders? We have spares. So basically you could, conceivably, just show up with your permits/stamps and you're good to go.

Probably some chit chat and camaraderie too. I've talked to Brandon before. He loves what he does, believes in it, and I always learn a ton from him.
 
First I have heard of TSS, this could be a real game changer. For me the lighter the better, the gun I mean, so presuming the shells are available here in SA I would be tempted to look at a 28 or a 410 as others have said.
 
First I have heard of TSS, this could be a real game changer. For me the lighter the better, the gun I mean, so presuming the shells are available here in SA I would be tempted to look at a 28 or a 410 as others have said.

Outside of youth hunters, I am against the sub-gauge revolution. What I will say is that bismuth/TSS is the reason for the sub-gauge revolution. By sub-gauge I mean something smaller than 12g, 16g, or 20g. I personally feel there is a lot of internet one-upping of "I shot this honker at 60 yds with a 410 shooting bismuth!" That's nice but how many more left with pellets just under the skin in the breast, crippled, and possibly dying?

20g is more than light enough recoil for even the smallest, most sensitive, of hunters. Smaller stature women, youths tall/big enough to get the proper pull, etc. 2 3/4" #5-#6 is a feather compared to the hammer the old steel 3" once were. 28g or 410 I could understand for a kid. But when you get into a grown man trying to down birds with a 28g or 410 just because they (think) they can, that's problematic. There's the whole argument of follow up shooting which OK, with something like a 12g could be a problem. But a 16g or 20g is so mild that follow up shots could be easy peasy.

That's just my opinion though. I think overall, bismuth/TSS is one of the best things that has happened to the sport in a very, very long time.
 
Outside of youth hunters, I am against the sub-gauge revolution. What I will say is that bismuth/TSS is the reason for the sub-gauge revolution. By sub-gauge I mean something smaller than 12g, 16g, or 20g. I personally feel there is a lot of internet one-upping of "I shot this honker at 60 yds with a 410 shooting bismuth!" That's nice but how many more left with pellets just under the skin in the breast, crippled, and possibly dying?

20g is more than light enough recoil for even the smallest, most sensitive, of hunters. Smaller stature women, youths tall/big enough to get the proper pull, etc. 2 3/4" #5-#6 is a feather compared to the hammer the old steel 3" once were. 28g or 410 I could understand for a kid. But when you get into a grown man trying to down birds with a 28g or 410 just because they (think) they can, that's problematic. There's the whole argument of follow up shooting which OK, with something like a 12g could be a problem. But a 16g or 20g is so mild that follow up shots could be easy peasy.

That's just my opinion though. I think overall, bismuth/TSS is one of the best things that has happened to the sport in a very, very long time.
I will only be shooting doves, and occasionally a francolin or two and to me a 12G is a cannon for that duty. I have used a borrowed 12G a fair bit on doves, and although a 20G feels a better choice I still feel it is overkill for what I am after. It has nothing at all to do with recoil, just enjoyment of the shot in the context.
 
I suppose Im a member of the minority on TSS..

Nothing wrong with it.. it is certainly effective...

But.. I've never had a problem with 3" Winchester Long Beard.. Every turkey I've ever shot with it has died with no associated drama or problem..

10 rounds of long beard is $24.. and can be found pretty easily just about anywhere that sells turkey ammo...

5 rounds of TSS is $79 at the same store... and is at times hard to find...

Is TSS "better"... Ill concede.. yeah.. probably...

Is it "worth it?"... for me.. no.. not when what Ive been using for a long time has been more than effective enough for the mission its been applied to..

(I used turkey as the example.. but the same applies to ducks (for me))...
 
I suppose Im a member of the minority on TSS..

Nothing wrong with it.. it is certainly effective...

But.. I've never had a problem with 3" Winchester Long Beard.. Every turkey I've ever shot with it has died with no associated drama or problem..

10 rounds of long beard is $24.. and can be found pretty easily just about anywhere that sells turkey ammo...

5 rounds of TSS is $79 at the same store... and is at times hard to find...

Is TSS "better"... Ill concede.. yeah.. probably...

Is it "worth it?"... for me.. no.. not when what Ive been using for a long time has been more than effective enough for the mission its been applied to..

(I used turkey as the example.. but the same applies to ducks (for me))...
I wish I had kept my patterns from my Benelli SBE2 shooting Winchester Long Beard 3.5" shells with a Carlson's TKY choke so I could show you the difference between that and the Federal Heavyweight TSS 3.5" shells. The Long Beard load pattern at 40 yards looked worse than the Federal TSS at 60 yards.

I know I've posted it before but here is 30 and 60 yards...
1679597701173.png

1679597717030.png


So why did I really switch? Extended range and higher pellet count to increase the probability of a lethal hit.

Maybe you can post a picture of your Winchester LB pattern for comparison sake.

If you do go looking for TSS be careful because Federal has a few different versions out there for turkey along with TSS/Lead blends. For 12 bore 3" or 3.5" pure TSS loads...7-9 combination shot, 9 shot or 7 shot are available in current production.
 
Give me a couple of weeks and I'll take it out and get a pattern pic or two (busy with a sporting clays tournament this weekend.. and then will be on a hog hunt from Thursday - Sunday of next week)..

Ive never patterned it past 40 before.. so it will be an interesting experiment..

Im shooting a Benelli Super Vinci using a Briley TKY choke.. at 40 its not as tight as your TSS pic.. but its substantially tighter than your 60 TSS pic...

Part of the equation might also be where do people shoot and what do the shots look like..

The last turkey I shot was at less than 20 yards.. I could have killed him (them) with a sling shot.. my wife and I doubled on a pair of really nice rio toms that walked in from behind us and just kept on moving out in front never knowing we were there...

The longest shot I have ever made on a turkey was probably 35 yards.. and the places I have most commonly hunted easterns the shots are 25-40 with 40 being a LONG shot.. most are taken in the 25-30 range..
 
@HookMeUpII - I'll not discuss the reason for a sub-bore boom, and whether or not TSS has/had anything to do with it.

What I do know is that sub-bores are fun to shoot, and for technicality sake...sub-bore is anything smaller (numerically higher) than 12 bore. They are lighter to carry all day in the pheasant fields, great for fast moving doves. Many turkey hunters have moved from 12 bore down to 20 to save money on ammo and reduce recoil.

Age is also a factor. Lots of people who have been shooting their whole lives are now in their "later" years but wish to continue to hunt and shoot. Sub-bores are a great alternative for those looking to stay active in the shooting sports and minimize the punishment to their bodies take.

I see your point of what you have called "one-upping" as a possibility for some hunters. All I can say for that is that shotguns are very versatile with varying bores, shell length, charge, load weight, pellet size and pellet composition. Choosing a combination of these wisely for the intended game as well as taking shots at ethical distances is part of being a responsible hunter. Those doing the "one-upping" are not what I would call being responsible. It's up to you to choose who you want to hunt with and who you don't.
 
I will only be shooting doves, and occasionally a francolin or two and to me a 12G is a cannon for that duty. I have used a borrowed 12G a fair bit on doves, and although a 20G feels a better choice I still feel it is overkill for what I am after. It has nothing at all to do with recoil, just enjoyment of the shot in the context.

Oh for game like that I would not even bother with bismuth/TSS. You can and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it but lead would be fine if legal. Yes, tungsten is denser/heavier than lead but the cost trade off wouldn't be worth it for me. If you felt overly environmentally conscious and/or wanted to squeeze out more effectiveness, that would be fine. Not to mention the food aspect of it with lead being in the mix.

Those gauges for doves and smaller upland/game birds is fine too. I was more referring to waterfowl.
 
@HookMeUpII - I'll not discuss the reason for a sub-bore boom, and whether or not TSS has/had anything to do with it.

What I do know is that sub-bores are fun to shoot, and for technicality sake...sub-bore is anything smaller (numerically higher) than 12 bore. They are lighter to carry all day in the pheasant fields, great for fast moving doves. Many turkey hunters have moved from 12 bore down to 20 to save money on ammo and reduce recoil.

Age is also a factor. Lots of people who have been shooting their whole lives are now in their "later" years but wish to continue to hunt and shoot. Sub-bores are a great alternative for those looking to stay active in the shooting sports and minimize the punishment to their bodies take.

I see your point of what you have called "one-upping" as a possibility for some hunters. All I can say for that is that shotguns are very versatile with varying bores, shell length, charge, load weight, pellet size and pellet composition. Choosing a combination of these wisely for the intended game as well as taking shots at ethical distances is part of being a responsible hunter. Those doing the "one-upping" are not what I would call being responsible. It's up to you to choose who you want to hunt with and who you don't.

I was more referring to waterfowl. Sub-gauge, in the waterfowl realm, is anything less than 20g in size, generally speaking. To me, shooting a sub 20g gun for ducks/geese here (NJ) is insane. The days here where it gets best it's usually blowing 20 - 30 kts from the N-NW-NNW. To think of throwing a tiny payload like that with a significantly smaller powder charge through that wind? Preposterous. Not to mention, most ducks here like black ducks, pintails, and even the occasional mallard are usually finishing on the outside of your spread at 40 yds, if they are even finishing at all. Yes, there are those days where they will little drop in the spread like 20 yds out. Maybe it works then? I guess the viewpoint is open to interpretation.

Upland is a different story. Funny enough, I typically think lead for upland is the way to go unless (like above) you are environmentally conscious or want to squeeze out just a bit more performance with TSS. In fact, I think for true wild upland where birds will sometimes flush 30 yds out or more, maybe TSS is the way to go? You've spent thousands on dog + all the training, $3,000 to maybe $10,000 to maybe $20,000 on a high end OU, drove potentially thousands of miles for true wild pheasant/quail/etc. Is it that much more to pick up a few boxes of TSS? And with that, I know of upland hunters who normally shoot 20g and sometimes smaller on stocked birds, who will pull out the 12g for true wild.

I've yet to see a practical argument as to why a sub-gauge is the way to go for waterfowl other than a kid, small stature woman, or maybe to your point, someone really up there in age.
 
Bismuth- 9.6gr/cc, TSS- 18gr/cc. Huge difference in lethality of the two shot types.

Yes, but one tends to pattern better at the generally accepted ranges and the other tends to take much longer to pattern out. Ballistically speaking, there are some differences. There is nickel plated bismuth being tested.

I personally think both are great. In fact, I won't even argue it.

Steel - Old rotten bananas.
Bismuth - A beautiful ripe apple.
TSS - A beautiful ripe pear.

Take your pick lol. But once again, I have a buddy who shoots nothing but the cheapest of cheapo Kent steel and kills the daylights out of ducks.
 
Take your pick lol. But once again, I have a buddy who shoots nothing but the cheapest of cheapo Kent steel and kills the daylights out of ducks.
Agreeded.

TSS will not make you a better shot, it will make your accurate shots more lethal.
 
I wish I had kept my patterns from my Benelli SBE2 shooting Winchester Long Beard 3.5" shells with a Carlson's TKY choke so I could show you the difference between that and the Federal Heavyweight TSS 3.5" shells. The Long Beard load pattern at 40 yards looked worse than the Federal TSS at 60 yards.

I know I've posted it before but here is 30 and 60 yards...
View attachment 524791
View attachment 524792

So why did I really switch? Extended range and higher pellet count to increase the probability of a lethal hit.

Maybe you can post a picture of your Winchester LB pattern for comparison sake.

If you do go looking for TSS be careful because Federal has a few different versions out there for turkey along with TSS/Lead blends. For 12 bore 3" or 3.5" pure TSS loads...7-9 combination shot, 9 shot or 7 shot are available in current production.
Have you tried straight 9’s or their 8x10 mix? I shoot straight 9’s out of my 835 Turkey gun and get patterns better than your 60 yard target past 60 yards. The 8x10’s shoot best in my SB2 but marginally bette than the 9’s. I haven’t patterned it in several years because of the cost but I did find Indian Creek and Jebs to be the best. I’ll need to look at the constrictions since I tried numberous constrictions from both. I bet I’ve tried 18-20 chokes with my old beater camo 835
 
Have you tried straight 9’s or their 8x10 mix? I shoot straight 9’s out of my 835 Turkey gun and get patterns better than your 60 yard target past 60 yards. The 8x10’s shoot best in my SB2 but marginally bette than the 9’s. I haven’t patterned it in several years because of the cost but I did find Indian Creek and Jebs to be the best. I’ll need to look at the constrictions since I tried numberous constrictions from both. I bet I’ve tried 18-20 chokes with my old beater camo 835
The Mossy 835 is a great pump shotgun.

I haven't tried the TSS 9 shot yet, but I'll probably buy a box to test it out. I'll post some pics if I do. One of the big reasons I went with the 7's is because I also hunt goose...and I had kills last conservation season out to 70 yards with it. I don't always load TSS for goose, but when I do they drop like a rock. Mostly a first shot then switch to the Black Cloud TSS blend.
 
Yes, but one tends to pattern better at the generally accepted ranges and the other tends to take much longer to pattern out. Ballistically speaking, there are some differences. There is nickel plated bismuth being tested.

I personally think both are great. In fact, I won't even argue it.

Steel - Old rotten bananas.
Bismuth - A beautiful ripe apple.
TSS - A beautiful ripe pear.

Take your pick lol. But once again, I have a buddy who shoots nothing but the cheapest of cheapo Kent steel and kills the daylights out of ducks.

The way several of your posts were written, anyone not familiar with TSS and Bismuth could very well take away that the two shot types were similar. I added their respective densities as a point of info for the uneducated.

Since most are acquainted with lead shot and it's performance, I'll add that Pb runs roughly 10.5-11 gr/cc, depending on % of antimony.
 
I imagine the shipping on a palette might be on the expensive side. I might be wrong on this but I believe the palette is somewhere between 20-40 cases. They are a one stop shop, this outfitter. Don't have a gun? No problem. Got your own ammo? OK but we prefer you to use ours (probably at a markup). No waders? We have spares. So basically you could, conceivably, just show up with your permits/stamps and you're good to go.

Probably some chit chat and camaraderie too. I've talked to Brandon before. He loves what he does, believes in it, and I always learn a ton from him.

Yeah…. I know those guys been buying from them
a while now…. 4 years or so.

Regardless how much or little I order, price has been same. Was free, now $10 for my last 20 cases.
 
The Mossy 835 is a great pump shotgun.

I haven't tried the TSS 9 shot yet, but I'll probably buy a box to test it out. I'll post some pics if I do. One of the big reasons I went with the 7's is because I also hunt goose...and I had kills last conservation season out to 70 yards with it. I don't always load TSS for goose, but when I do they drop like a rock. Mostly a first shot then switch to the Black Cloud TSS blend.
For Turkey it’s my go to and it can take a beating. After that first bird is dead the 410 gets busted out for some fun.
 
The way several of your posts were written, anyone not familiar with TSS and Bismuth could very well take away that the two shot types were similar. I added their respective densities as a point of info for the uneducated.

Since most are acquainted with lead shot and it's performance, I'll add that Pb runs roughly 10.5-11 gr/cc, depending on % of antimony.

Similar and not. My gripe with TSS is the commercial loads are stretched too small.

Couple constants here:

1) For purposes of my dialogue, I am referring to waterfowl. Shooting a duck/goose pitching in at 20-30 mph is a little different than shooting a turkey staring at your decoy 40-50 yds out. The ability to put the shot right in the bean speaks volumes. But once again, I think both bismuth and TSS are fantastic in both cases. Both types of hunting take skill. I do both but much more waterfowl. It's just different being able to put the bead on the head of a gobbler vs. trying to lead a duck cupped up pitching in changing directions.

2) This is assuming the proper choke is used.. This is a whole other can of worms. I spent several $100 dollars getting this right. I could go on and on about this for a long time. I can't tell you how many people I've spoke to who "hate bismuth/TSS because it doesn't choke right" only to find they are using a choke designed with wad-studs like Patternmaster. My suggestion to them: Dig out your shotgun box, pull out the factory full, and go from there.

3) I don't hate TSS in fact, I love it. It's just different. It takes longer to pattern out, even more so than bismuth. TSS, based on the ballistics testing we have, carries a lower velocity but (supposedly) more penetration in gel. Bismuth, seems to carry more velocity, slightly less penetration, but is semi-frangible to some extent or at least considered to be so. Patterns out somewhere between steel and TSS. I prefer bismuth for waterfowl, TSS for turkey, and lead for upland. Brandon at Boss has a reason he makes TSS for turkey and bismuth for waterfowl.

4) If you're comparing lead v. bismuth v. TSS. Lead is deformable/malleable, bismuth is semi-frangible, and TSS is neither with properties similar to steel but much denser. Now the whole concept of nickel plated bismuth changes the convo a little but Boss is in the early stages of this process. There's a movement to make the pellets less prematurely frangible, but frangible at the terminal end. Whether you want something that's terminally-frangible is a personal decision.

5) I think a lot of it really comes down to, as I said, the factory TSS ammo being too small. But then again, some people are successful with it. To me shooting a #8-9 pellet for geese is hard to wrap my head around. That here just will not fly. Black ducks, pintails, etc forget it. I'd like to see maybe a #5-#7 for TSS and a #4-#6 in bismuth. You want to shoot greater snows in NJ, DE or MD with a #8-#9 TSS you will be very, very sorely disappointed.

6) People forget displacement is displacement at the end of the day. We aren't talking polymer tipped bullets. These are rudimentary, albeit well researched, pellets. A TSS #8-#9 pellet isn't going to displace a bigger wound channel (to my reading knowledge) than a bismuth #5-#6 pellet. It's just a simple fact. Now the only instance where this could be different: lead. It deforms and is malleable. Then it almost, in a way, could act in an expansionary fashion. But once again, no go for waterfowl in the USA. If you're shooting a turkey in the head with lead, bismuth, or TSS chances are it's going to be pretty dead regardless.

There's a lot of talking points:

- They aren't both the same.
- For most people with the right choke it will be a vast improvement over steel for waterfowl.
- A lot of people aren't willing to pony up and spend the extra money. Where I am, guys (and gals), have to work friggin hard for these birds. Rough bays and sounds, 6' tides, gale winds at times, ice, mud that will kill you, and then the birds still don't work sometimes. The last thing in my mind at that time is "I'm glad I saved $5-$15 a box on my shells!"

For some people, steel just works. I wish I could say I killed all these birds with bismuth shot but that's not the truth. Most were 3.5" Hevi in BB. Which now I realize, even that, was overkill.
IMG_3249.jpg
 
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Yeah…. I know those guys been buying from them
a while now…. 4 years or so.

Regardless how much or little I order, price has been same. Was free, now $10 for my last 20 cases.

The shipping was too good to be true lol. I used to be amazed how I would place my order on a Monday morning and case was at my doorstep Wednesday morning.

When it was hot and heavy with buying, I went to place an order and something was wrong with their site. When it got sorted, they were sold out. I text Brandon and he went into his own personal reserve for a case to sell me. From there on, that was it. They got me hooked.
 

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