Try and convince me the 243 is actually useful

[cash_tx]

@cash_tx —- are they “really” reintroducing the 5.7 Hemi in 2026? I hope so, otherwise I’ve got to keep my 2020 Ram (which I love) until I draw my last breath ! I’ve owned a 2004 F150 and 2014 Silverado and liked both - the 150 was lucky to get 16 mpg highway, the Silverado got 22-23 mpgs, but the Ram gets 21-22mpgs and the ride & quiet is better then any car, limo, SUV, or truck I’ve ever driven. Why Ram ever got rid of the proven Hemi???

I believe so. Ram even went so far as to film a commercial that said, "We get it. You all want the Hemi, so we're bringing it back".

PS - sorry for the bunny trail on this thread.

 

[Ragman]

Well Bob, if I have learned anything over the years is that you can’t convince anyone one of anything once they’ve made up their mind on a subject. And right off I know for a fact that you probably know far more about ballistics than I do and I don’t doubt that you’ve seen what you have.
I also know what I know from my own experiences and those of my family, friends and clients that I guided for whitetails back in the 90s. I know what I’ve seen my wife and father do to whitetails with the .243 (even though my wife has graduated to my 7mmRM since 2020). I have actually shot only one whitetail buck with a .243 but that’s mainly because I’d rather use one of my other rifles. Since my wife stopped using it in favour of my 7RM I have sold it. Still I would confidently use a .243 with 100 grain bullets out to 200 yards on our Saskatchewan whitetails and mule deer. And they are significantly larger than Aussie fallow deer and goats (which I would love to hunt one day)! Then again maybe Aussie’s are just tougher than us Canucks!
It’s the only calibre that my goddaughter hunts with, mostly Northern whitetails, but she has also killed a yearling bull moose, a spike elk and a 150 pound black bear with it. But her father is probably the best hunter that I know and nobody ever told her it was too small.
Many people will say that a .30-30 is too small for moose, but the next time I draw a tag for one that’s the rifle I plan on using. I know that if I get to where I can confidently hit where I am aiming with iron sights, the moose will die quickly. At least that’s my plan for now.
I have always preferred heavier bullets at moderate speed over lighter faster bullets and I’ve often wondered if there are heavier than 100 grain bullets for the .243? I don’t handload so don’t know about these things.
Anyhoo there we are. I would never force my opinions on anyone least of all someone with more ballistic knowledge than me!
Here is my one and only .243 deer.

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt
Did you hear the one about the American cowboy.
His boss told him to get along little Doogie
So the cowboy bought hissef a dachshund.

Some people ain't real bright.
Bob

Since you don’t like the 243
And I really am not sure if the extra 100-150 fps mater with the 6.
How about you try the 240 weatherbey it’s still a 6 but what 500 fps faster? Get a fast twist barrel and use 105-108 gr and maybe a 115gr
Lol
Or skip it and try a 257 wb mag

 

[50Gunner]

LOL, dang Bob, it's a fine little cartridge.

1960 pre-64 model 70 heavy barreled varminter,

55gr ballistic tips 4125 fps over Varget, Lapua brass, CCI-BR2 primers.

Shoot a crow with that load inside 200 yards, all you'll find are a beak and some feet, maybe a wing blown off laying over there, it simply melts coyotes, never a twitch after catching one.

Back during the slow joe bidet kung flu plandemic, with Nosler also being out of stock, plus jacking their prices higher than a giraffes vagina, I bought a chit-ton of 100gr Speer Grand Slams for 9 bucks per 50, iirc some black friday no tax free shipping sale.

Worked up a very nice load in a 1956 pre-64 Featherweight Winchester model 70.

41.5gr Staball 6.5 powder sent those little Grand slams out at 3048 fps in new Starline brass cases primed with CCI-200's, light crimp in cannelures with Lee FCD.

This last April i was invited on a Red River pig hunt on the OK-TX border, one evening I got a 120lb sow to line up with a 200+lb sow, hit sow number one in the neck at 55 yards, the little Grand Slam exited her neck to hit sow number two in the ribs tight in the shoulder crease, that bullet exited the second sow clipping the rear of the offside shoulder.

Neck shot sow dropped at the shot, sow number two made a 25 yard death crash run, anyway you want to cut it, that's some bigtime performance from a small bore with 'cheap' bullets.

I'll use that nice carrying Featherweight 243 Winchester with 100gr Grand slams on whitetails this season without concern, any buck in the woods, quartering away last rib shot going in, he's in deep trouble and will be bleeding out/cooling off down at the low water bridge in very short order.

 

[Ruraldoc]

I have had a couple of failures with a 243 on deer and hogs. I had a 100 grain hornady come apart and fail to reach the vitals on the shoulder of a 95 pound whitetail. I managed to find and finish the deer some time later.

I had a Sierra do the same thing on a large feral sow. The dogs managed to bay her and I finished her a few minutes later.

When I stepped up to a 257 Roberts with a 120 grain bullet, such problems ceased.

I now hunt a lot with a suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor with 120 grain copper bullets with good results.

My friend Earnest, guided at a large Alabama hunting lodge for more than 30 years.

He said he had more long and difficult tracking jobs with 243s than with bigger cartridges. He personally carried and recommended a 308.

A 243 works with good bullets, precise bullet placement and a good tracking dog if you’re in thick cover.

In open country, where an animal that travels 100-200 yards after being hit is easy to find, a 243 is probably fine. Same if you have snow for tracking.

Funny how I live halfway around the world from Bob in Australia and having seen the same situation, have come to the same conclusion.

 

[roklok]

I have had a couple of failures with a 243 on deer and hogs. I had a 100 grain hornady come apart and fail to reach the vitals on the shoulder of a 95 pound whitetail. I managed to find and finish the deer some time later.

I had a Sierra do the same thing on a large feral sow. The dogs managed to bay her and I finished her a few minutes later.

When I stepped up to a 257 Roberts with a 120 grain bullet, such problems ceased.

I now hunt a lot with a suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor with 120 grain copper bullets with good results.

My friend Earnest, guided at a large Alabama hunting lodge for more than 30 years.

He said he had more long and difficult tracking jobs with 243s than with bigger cartridges. He personally carried and recommended a 308.

A 243 works with good bullets, precise bullet placement and a good tracking dog if you’re in thick cover.

In open country, where an animal that travels 100-200 yards after being hit is easy to find, a 243 is probably fine. Same if you have snow for tracking.

Funny how I live halfway around the world from Bob in Australia and having seen the same situation, have come to the same conclusion.

I have had a similar failure with a .270, Sierra Gameking 130 grain came apart on a small doe's shoulder and only a small fragment made its way inside ribcage. I was very lucky to recover that deer. This is a bullet failure, not a cartridge failure. I will agree that quality bullets are more critical in the smaller bore cartridges at higher velocities, however larger cartridges are not immune to these bullet failures.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Since you don’t like the 243
And I really am not sure if the extra 100-150 fps mater with the 6.
How about you try the 240 weatherbey it’s still a 6 but what 500 fps faster? Get a fast twist barrel and use 105-108 gr and maybe a 115gr
Lol
Or skip it and try a 257 wb mag

@Flbt
My 25 matches the. Weatherby
100 gn - 3660 fps
110-120gn -3300+ fps
Bob

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt
My 25 matches the. Weatherby
100 gn - 3660 fps
110-120gn -3300+ fps
Bob

Lol can you get the 87 up around 3900fps?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Lol can you get the 87 up around 3900fps?

@Flbt
A mate uses my cartridge design and gets the 80gn copper outer edge to those speeds and a 75 gn VMAX to a skosh under 4,000 fps
Now that's motoring.
Bob

 

[Ruraldoc]

I have not had problems with Hornady Interlocks and Sierra Gamekings on deer size game in cartridges larger than 243.

Have used a lot of 130 grain Interlocks in 270s and 150 grain interlocks in 30 caliber rifles with very good results.

The only failure I’ve seen with an Interlock is with a 100 grain from a 243.

I have used Sierras in a 7mm Mag with 160 grain Game Kings with good results, only seeing a failure in a 243.

My friend Earnest saw a couple hundred deer killed each year at Pushmataha Plantation in Alabama. He saw a bunch more problems with 243 than with cartridges like 270, 308 and 30-06.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I have had a similar failure with a .270, Sierra Gameking 130 grain came apart on a small doe's shoulder and only a small fragment made its way inside ribcage. I was very lucky to recover that deer. This is a bullet failure, not a cartridge failure. I will agree that quality bullets are more critical in the smaller bore cartridges at higher velocities, however larger cartridges are not immune to these bullet failures.

I have personally seen shot and helped field dress a number of mule deer, pronghorn and a couple of elk taken with 165gr Sierra Gamekings. We have NEVER found an intact bullet and only pieces of the bullet and copper jacket throughout the boiler room. They seem to explode like a hand grenade inside the animals. They kill well but not quickly. My buddy shot a small bull elk at 25yds three times and it just stood there until falling over. He shot a cow moose FIVE times at 25yds before it fell over. The animals were dead from the first shot but didn’t know it. I’ve told him several times for years that he should use a more substantial cup and core or bonded bullet but he won’t listen. Probably like many/most of the average hunters out there.

 

[Flbt]

Yes

@Flbt
A mate uses my cartridge design and gets the 80gn copper outer edge to those speeds and a 75 gn VMAX to a skosh under 4,000 fps
Now that's motoring.
Bob

that is

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I use 80 Grain Barnes TTSX with MY .243 never had a problem…

 

[Safari Dave]

Definitely, not a .243 fan, but, at the expense of sounding a bit snobbish, we, as a group, are a bit more sophisticated than the average hunter and most of us know quite a bit about more about bullet construction than the average hunter.

I like big-bore rifles and like don't mind taking recoil to an extent...

For educational purposes, I would recommend listening to these podcast.

"From" probably works for the USDA APHIS program, as an animal damage control specialist. (I've hired them twice to work for a municipal government, but not him, personally).

Even though I, initially, wanted to, I could not find fault in what he says, even though some things may not be optimal for the situations that present themselves on an African safari.

My advice is to ALWAYS do what your PH recommends, regardless of what you think.

The nuance of what "From" discusses is bullet construction.

That is where what is he talking about and the knowledge of the average hunter part ways.

 

[colorado]

Got my first elk in Montana using a 243 with a 105g Speer spitzer hand load Elk didn't know it wasn't enough gun

 

[CoElkHunter]

I have personally seen shot and helped field dress a number of mule deer, pronghorn and a couple of elk taken with 165gr Sierra Gamekings. We have NEVER found an intact bullet and only pieces of the bullet and copper jacket throughout the boiler room. They seem to explode like a hand grenade inside the animals. They kill well but not quickly. My buddy shot a small bull elk at 25yds three times and it just stood there until falling over. He shot a cow moose FIVE times at 25yds before it fell over. The animals were dead from the first shot but didn’t know it. I’ve told him several times for years that he should use a more substantial cup and core or bonded bullet but he won’t listen. Probably like many/most of the average hunters out there.

With his .30-06. A few more with the same bullet in .308.

 

[Safari Dave]

If I could choose the rifle, optic, and loading, I would hunt any animal on the planet with a .30/06, if given a low-cost opportunity.

 

[wvhunt]

I had a heavy barrel .243 that was a super varmint rifle, but I prefer to step up to the 308 for deer sized game. The OP mentioned the right bullets and it certainly makes a difference. Years ago I traded a family member out of a 25-06 because according to him it wasn't any good for deer. He said it wouldn't penetrate. When he gave me the ammo he'd been deer hunting with, they were hollowpoint varmint loads. No wonder he'd crippled several deer with it.