The old crf vs prf debate....

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Bas, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Luvthunt

    Luvthunt AH Veteran

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    Many of the old timers only needed one shot ,so used single shot rifles—what was that guys name—Frederick Courtney Selous? Ate lunch under his favorite Baobob? Tree a few times in my life. He did not need 3-5 in the mag. One shot—one kill.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018

  2. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

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    possibly the biggest blight on our lives is the proliferation of 3 lug actions appearing on the market.
    they have come about due purely to lower cost of production, yet are sold as being beneficial due to shorter bolt lift.
    this is actually their downfall, as by definition shorter bolt lift either has less distance of extraction on the cocking cam, or more likely a steeper cocking cam.
    the higher gearing of this makes extraction harder.
    modern receivers also seem to be round, as is the rem700, thus not having a flat bedding area.
    ok for small cartridges, but not for bigger ones.
    rem extractors can break, and do, under difficult conditions.
    if you ever have drastic overpressure in a rem, and the whole case head flows, it coes into the extractor mechanism, and can be difficult to get out.
    the old mauser breeches the case up to the extractor groove, giving full support, while the rem leaves some of the case head in mid air.
    and name an action better for handling escaping gas better than the mauser in the event of a popped or burst primer.
    bruce.
     
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  3. Cousin Bongo

    Cousin Bongo AH Member

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    Personal story about the Sako extractor. My partner and I were hunting kafue lechwe and where many miles from the vehicle when the chance for a shot on a good bull finally happened for my partner. He was using a Sako chambered for 270 Winchester. He bought the rifle new and had used it on many hunts and fired a few hundred rounds without issue. Anyway, after firing, the cartridge would not extract. The extractor would grab the cartridge and we could feel it trying to extract, but the extractor just wasn’t strong enough to extract it and would slip off the rim, the bolt coming back without the cartridge. His rifle was out of action with a stuck case, neither he nor his PH had a cleaning rod or stuck case remover, and they were just starting to head back to the truck when my PH and I came across them. I happened to have a good steel break down rod with me and was able to knock the case out. Didn’t take all that much force either. Examination of the case revealed a single grain of grit embedded in the side of the case - something the extractor on my Mauser 98 wouldn’t have even hiccupped over. Extractor was in really good shape and he subsequently had no problems with it, but he never fully trusted that rifle again. Not saying the Sako extractor is weak - Sako are good rifles - but the extractor just isn’t as strong nor as forceful as the Mauser 98’s.

    CB
     
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  4. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

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    there is nothing like the feel of using a falling block, particularly with a black powder cartridge.
    however in the real world, a magazine can be a great comfort, and potentially more humane.
    extraction on falling blocks can sometimes leave a bit to be desired too.
    bruce.
     

  5. Clodo Ferreira

    Clodo Ferreira AH Veteran

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    Hi Cousin Bongo,

    Right! That's the main virtue of the TRUE Mauser 98 extractor design!
    Really, A LOT more important than the controlled FEED!!! That's it!!!!
     
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  6. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    :confused: it is 2018 not 18 something.

    There are quotes as to how Selous was in fact not a crack shot, but a rather ordinary marksman.

    He also had and used a .425 Westley Richards bolt action on a M98 action.
     

  7. Bas

    Bas AH Enthusiast

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    I agree. I've even questioned why crocodiles are given game status instead of being targets of opportunity. I'm certain some indigenous people would be relieved if their numbers were further reduced.
     

  8. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

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    That's funny...... I have seen many push feeds hunting everything on this planet.

    Many of my rifles are control feed, probably because I have built many and somehow have bought many in collections over the years. Of which many have been pre 64 mod 70s. I also have many Springfield 03.

    The last collection that I bought was owned by a guy who I knew when he was a kid and after his wife left him he just put his life into guns and shooting. He was the finest shot i ever knew and also for an engineer he was a truly gifted machinist and gunsmith. And when we discussed this same subject we both came up to the conclusion that if there was no flaws in either , both would perform flawlessly.

    Of course if people have weapons that look like they were used to stir hog slop neither will work, if people only neck instead of full length size or turn a 2100 fps round into a 2600 fps round there's gonna be trouble.

    Things go wrong with anything mechanical no matter how well engineered. Look at the space shuttle.

    I saw a phs Mauser not eject after firing. He finally put the butt on the ground and stomped it open . Crud was built up on the case and the chamber looked like it has been packed in Rock salt.

    I guess that not all phs are weapons experts.

    Learn your weapon, have a few hundred rounds through it before you take it out hunting.

    Good luck
     

  9. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

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    That's funny...... I have seen many push feeds hunting everything on this planet.

    Many of my rifles are control feed, probably because I have built many and somehow have bought many in collections over the years. Of which many have been pre 64 mod 70s. I also have many Springfield 03.

    The last collection that I bought was owned by a guy who I knew when he was a kid and after his wife left him he just put his life into guns and shooting. He was the finest shot i ever knew and also for an engineer he was a truly gifted machinist and gunsmith. And when we discussed this same subject we both came up to the conclusion that if there was no flaws in either , both would perform flawlessly.

    Of course if people have weapons that look like they were used to stir hog slop neither will work, if people only neck instead of full length size or turn a 2100 fps round into a 2600 fps round there's gonna be trouble.

    Things go wrong with anything mechanical no matter how well engineered. Look at the space shuttle.

    I saw a phs Mauser not eject after firing. He finally put the butt on the ground and stomped it open . Crud was built up on the case and the chamber looked like it has been packed in Rock salt.

    I guess that not all phs are weapons experts.

    Learn your weapon, have a few hundred rounds through it before you take it out hunting.

    Good luck
     

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