The 7x57 Revisited...

[Michael Dean]

My 7x57 (DWM 1908 custom) liked the 160gn Woodleigh PP bullet at 2700fps and to me that is an excellent load for just about anything anywhere in the up to medium heavy PG sized animal.

What powder and charge are you using to get 2,700fps, with a 175 grain bullet, that's get to be a very hot load. I'm loading 47.3 grains of RL17 under a 175 grain bullet which is a very hot load and not getting anywhere close to 2,700fps. The Speer reloading manual states that 45 grains of RL17 is a maximum load for a 7mm Mauser shooting a 175 grain bullet with muzzle velocities under 2,400fps.

 

[nztimb]

I never said I was using a 175 gn bullet

 

[Michael Dean]

Tons of information using 4831SC with both 160 and 175 grain bullets in the 7mm Mauser. The Speer reloading manual shows 51 grains of 4831SC as a max charge for 160 grain bullets. I've used RL17, H4350 as well as 4831SC in my Mausers.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Hello All

Thanks for all of your input! I went on my Tuli Hunt. Managed to get my zebra after two and a half days of tracking. This to me is what hunting is all about!!! I had no issues with the rifle/load at all, but my trusty Leupold VX2 3-9x40 gave up at the worst possible moment! We ended up having to track my badly shot zebra for a further 4.5 km! Those guys read sign like I read my favorite firearm books!!!

I missed a couple of very easy followup shots (I am very embarrassed to have to fess up to this. But it is a hard lesson!) This is when I became really suspicious as I think I am a competent shot. Anyway, we put an end to the zebras' misery and I went of to the airstrip to see what had gone wrong. The rifle wouldn't group, nor hold its zero! Man was I mad and embarrassed etc...

I then loaned a friend .308 Win Tikka and continued hunting with that. He nearly didn't get that rifle back!!!

To the credit of Leupold and their agents here in SA (Formalito), they toke my scope back with no questions and sent it off to get repaired at the factory.

Hard lessons learned here for me! I have now put my VX1 2-7x33 on the 7mm and have to say it looks kind of compact!

The bullet worked well, I feel that the 160 grain Nosler AB expands a bit too much. But then a zebra is tough/large and if I cannot get the bullet in the right place then I can not blame the bullet!!

I will post some photos later.

I didn't carry a .458 as I don't own one. Now I think I should get a larger rifle...just not to sure what? That is a post for another time

 

[7x57Joe]

Congrats on the zebra. Sorry about your scope, it's never a fun experience, especially on a hunt. I was at the range Wednesday and had a Burris Fullfield go bad which is only the second one since 1967. Such is life.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Hello All

Thanks for all of your input! I went on my Tuli Hunt. Managed to get my zebra after two and a half days of tracking. This to me is what hunting is all about!!! I had no issues with the rifle/load at all, but my trusty Leupold VX2 3-9x40 gave up at the worst possible moment! We ended up having to track my badly shot zebra for a further 4.5 km! Those guys read sign like I read my favorite firearm books!!!

I missed a couple of very easy followup shots (I am very embarrassed to have to fess up to this. But it is a hard lesson!) This is when I became really suspicious as I think I am a competent shot. Anyway, we put an end to the zebras' misery and I went of to the airstrip to see what had gone wrong. The rifle wouldn't group, nor hold its zero! Man was I mad and embarrassed etc...

I then loaned a friend .308 Win Tikka and continued hunting with that. He nearly didn't get that rifle back!!!

To the credit of Leupold and their agents here in SA (Formalito), they toke my scope back with no questions and sent it off to get repaired at the factory.

Hard lessons learned here for me! I have now put my VX1 2-7x33 on the 7mm and have to say it looks kind of compact!

The bullet worked well, I feel that the 160 grain Nosler AB expands a bit too much. But then a zebra is tough/large and if I cannot get the bullet in the right place then I can not blame the bullet!!

I will post some photos later.

I didn't carry a .458 as I don't own one. Now I think I should get a larger rifle...just not to sure what? That is a post for another time

Feeling your pain. It's why I now take an extra scope with me when I make a trip. Last year in October I was missing badly with my wife's .30-06. It wasn't the scope, it was an action screw backing out. A lousy 1/4 turn or less would've prevented a lot of frustration. I didn't figure that out until we got back. And of course the problem came up after we had sighted in.

 

[CAustin]

Congrats on your hunt!

 

[Hearties]

Had a similar experience with my Swart Z3 in the Free State this year. It's gone back to Austria under warranty - hoping it comes back good as new. Very jealous about Tuli block - one day!

 

[zephyr]

Another good chart

 

[nztimb]

There are some very broad comparrisons there and the difference between 4350 and 4831 as a single eg, is very likely to cause problems if loaded to the same levels. I would encourage caution in using this chart as definitively authoratative

 

[Michael Dean]

Thanks for pointing that out, I stand corrected, you specifically mentioned using a 160 grain bullet. That being said, review of the Speer reloading manual which is probably the most aggressive in terms of loads, shows the powders, Hunter and Reloader 17 as the two fastest and both of these powders fall short of 2,700fps when using a maximum designated load. In short you're using a very hot load. I myself am using 47.3 grains of Reloader 17, 1.3 grains above Speer's maximum load for 160 grain bullets and I'm using a 168 grain Nosler AccuBond which only increases the overall pressure.

I'm simply pointing out that the standards for 7x57 Mausers are very conservative; I spent several weeks developing my load, looking for any signs of pressure and fortunately found none. I'm not trying to push the envelope with respect to developing my load, I'm attempting to make the best use of a 168 grain bullet by developing a load that maximizes its potential range. There's no sense in using a bullet that has 300 plus yard potential in terms of terminal accuracy and setting the zero at 100 yards.

The 7x57 Mauser is a mid range cartridge that has bullets in the 168-175 category that afford the hunter a serious firearm with tremendous potential. In terms of a plains game cartridge, it has the capacity to take down everything from a Duiker to an Eland. The only limits regarding this cartridge are self imposed guidelines compromised by conservative loads that are attributed to certain small ring Mausers that are limited to 46,000PSI.

 

[ZG47]

Tight barrels can make a difference. Yanks (mostly independents) have a history of making undersized rifle barrels for all chamberings, possibly starting with .277 (as opposed to .278) barrels for the .270 Winchester. The Czechs also have a reputation for that habit. I use Sierra boat-tails in my Brno ZG47 30-06 because ... with equal width grooves and lands, a bore of .30 and groove diameter of .3082 (if I recall that last part correctly); it has worked out a little too tight for full-power flat-base bullet loads, as I have stated previously on this forum. Funny thing is, most people I know who have Brno ZKK rifles also use Sierra boat-tails in their rifles ...

NB The most notoriously tight factory barrels are probably the 9mm barrels that were fitted to the short-barreled Mateba match revolvers chambered in .38 Special. They were apparently safe in Europe but not with U.S. shooters! What is it with pistol shooters? Sometimes they load their cast bullet rounds so lightly that the sixth bullet forces the other six to dribble out of the muzzle and other times they try to turn their pistols into fragmentation grenades!

 

[nztimb]

What I can tell you @Michael Dean is that my Custom 1908 DWM rifle had a 25 in match barrel with a min spec chamber with turned necks for a .003 clearance and with chronographed loads and 40 + years experience I have enough nouce not to overload my brass or my (very expensive rifle)
44gn ADI 2209 (H4350) gave me 2539fps for the 160gn Woodleigh PP bullet
45gn gave 2629fps
46gn gave 2688fps
47gn gave 2721fps
I settled on 46.5 for 2705fps and 3/4in groups.

My speer book (#10) lists 48gn IMR 4350 which is a little faster than H4350 and 49gn 4831 for a 50000 cup for modern rifles which I consider mine to have been so 47gn is not max or excessive according to Speer in 1979.
You may have spent weeks developing your load but I got my first 7x57 near 40 years ago and have been loading and experimenting with a number of them ever since so your pontificating that I was shooting high pressure loads is really done with no knowledge of my particular rifle, my experience or familiarity with my loading techniques.

And just to show what is possible I was getting 3237fps with the 120gn GS Custom bullet over 51gn BL-C2/Fed mag primer and getting accuracy that was under a 1/2 in.

I better not tell you that I was getting 5 shot groups in the 1 1/4 range with a 160 gn cast
bullet (with hard shank and soft nose) at 2415fps and killed animals out to 200 yds with it through aperture sights as well.

 

[nztimb]

The only limits regarding this cartridge are self imposed guidelines compromised by conservative loads that are attributed to certain small ring Mausers that are limited to 46,000PSI.

You may want to amend that statement to note that small ring 98 mausers were and are as able as the large ring 98's pressure wise which have the third locking lug that is not present on the 92-93 and 95 (that is the pre 98) Mauser and add the Remington Lee and the Rolling Block to the list which have limited safety to take the pressure that the 98 action and other modern actions can safely take.

 

[benchracer]

What I can tell you @Michael Dean is that my Custom 1908 DWM rifle had a 25 in match barrel with a min spec chamber with turned necks for a .003 clearance and with chronographed loads and 40 + years experience I have enough nouce not to overload my brass or my (very expensive rifle)
44gn ADI 2209 (H4350) gave me 2539fps for the 160gn Woodleigh PP bullet
45gn gave 2629fps
46gn gave 2688fps
47gn gave 2721fps
I settled on 46.5 for 2705fps and 3/4in groups.

My speer book (#10) lists 48gn IMR 4350 which is a little faster than H4350 and 49gn 4831 for a 50000 cup for modern rifles which I consider mine to have been so 47gn is not max or excessive according to Speer in 1979.
You may have spent weeks developing your load but I got my first 7x57 near 40 years ago and have been loading and experimenting with a number of them ever since so your pontificating that I was shooting high pressure loads is really done with no knowledge of my particular rifle, my experience or familiarity with my loading techniques.

And just to show what is possible I was getting 3237fps with the 120gn GS Custom bullet over 51gn BL-C2/Fed mag primer and getting accuracy that was under a 1/2 in.

I better not tell you that I was getting 5 shot groups in the 1 1/4 range with a 160 gn cast
bullet (with hard shank and soft nose) at 2415fps and killed animals out to 200 yds with it through aperture sights as well.View attachment 202711

2700 fps with a 160 grain bullet from a 7x57 is neither difficult, nor dangerous, to achieve with the right powder. The same charge of RL-22 yields 2700, with both the 160 Nosler Partition and the 168 Berger Classic Hunter, from a 22" barrel in my Ruger #1A. Even at that, these loads are STILL well within CIP standard pressure levels.

As a sanity check, note that it is not difficult to find book data for 7mm-08 showing 2700 fps with 160 class bullets. Yes, the -08 has a higher pressure spec, but it also has 8% less case capacity. The 7x57 will do anything the 7mm-08 will do, and it will do so at LOWER pressure. None of the loads being discussed even approach the 60k psi of the 7mm-08, which is itself easily handled in a modern action.

 

[gizmo]

My understanding has always been that load data can be used interchangeably between H4831 / H4831SC. The two being the same powder just that the SC stands for Short Cut. Has something changed or have I been wrong all along?

yes you are quite right as Mr. Dean has pointed out. I use H4831 and the SC for my 300 mag loads. My rifle loves it.

You are correct, SC stands for short cut and the two powders can be interchanged for each other. The rationale for SC is for loads that are close to filling cases where you need condensed loads.

I have noticed the SC meters through my powder thrower a bit better also.