The 7x57 Revisited...

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by BrokenArrow, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow AH Member

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    Hello All
    A question to all of you who have access to a wide variety of reloading propellants... Can the 7x57 be loaded with H4831SC? I use the heavier bullets such as the Nosler 160 gr AccuBond. I live in South Africa and this is one of the US propellants I have access to. I know that propellants in the medium to slow-medium burn rate, like IMR 4350 are usually recommended for use in this cartridge.

    Very interested in your opinions, hopefully based on experience!

    I know this may have been previously covered before on the AH forum...

    I have a DWM M98 acction with a Lothar Walther barrel in this caliber and I leave in just over two weeks for the Tuli Block in Botswana and I 'need' to take this rifle for a walk...

    Thanks!
     
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  2. bassasdaindia

    bassasdaindia AH Elite

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  3. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH Elite

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  4. Michael Dean

    Michael Dean AH Veteran

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    Just finished some ladder tests for my 7x57. Using heavier bullets, the 168 grain AccuBond. You're correct the IMR4350 is a main stay for loading this cartridge with heavy bullets. The Speer reloading manual shows the 4831 and has load data for it but not the 4831SC. I personally used Reloader 17, it burns very similar to the IMR 4350 but gives a higher velocity. You might run into problems regarding case capacity and the 4831SC. So to answer your question, the 4831SC can be used, it's just a matter of finding appropriate load data to work with. I achieved outstanding results when using Reloader 17 and 168 grain bullets. I plan on doing another ladder test with the AFrame 160's and Reloader 17. Trying to see if I can obtain 2800fps with it. I used 47.7 grains of RL17 and the 168's without noticing any high pressure signs. Just make sure you're using a modern action if you're going to attempt the higher loads.
     
  5. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Ambassador

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    My understanding has always been that load data can be used interchangeably between H4831 / H4831SC. The two being the same powder just that the SC stands for Short Cut. Has something changed or have I been wrong all along?
     
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  6. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow AH Member

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    Hello guys, thanks for your replies! Appreciated! There always seem to be firm favorites with regards to propellants for specific calibers. I find my 7x57 has worked really well with a powder we have here in SA called S 365, which is very similar to IMR 4350. Our powders are sensitive to temperature extremes. What I like about the new US powders is they are not sensitive to temperature extremes and are consistent from lot to lot.
    I am not chasing velocity, accuracy is more important. Africa can be very unkind to high velocities...
     
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  7. IvW

    IvW AH Fanatic

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    I load mine with S355 and 170gr Rhino bullets, works like a charm.
     
  8. stug

    stug AH Fanatic

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    I tried Adi2213sc which is H4831sc rebadged. It didn't give as high a velocity as 2209/H4350.
    It will work better with the 160-175gr than the 140gr weight.
     
  9. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Ambassador

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    H4831 may be a better powder choice for the heavier bullets. When I find loads that work with H4831, they're typically quite accurate. But also typically in the heavier for caliber bullets. That accuracy usually comes at some velocity expense. I've never had a load that was faster with H4831 than other powders, but usually as accurate if not better. When better, I choose the H4831.

    It is quite temperature insensitive I have found. So I'd recommend giving it a go and see what happens. Results vary from rifle to rifle and bullet to bullet, so it's difficult to predict for sure what will happen in your case.
     
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  10. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Veteran

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    "I am not chasing velocity, accuracy is more important. Africa can be very unkind to high velocities..." by BrokenArrow

    That is a very wise sentiment about hunting and hunting ammo ballistics!!

    Looking at all the data out there I think somewhere between 42 and 46 hrs of H4831 & H4831SC under the 160 gr bullet is the range of conservative loads most all sources list as within the parameters for the 7x57. Most all sources treat the 7x57 conservatively because of the age and type of many of the actions available. I would have no reservations about loading to those pressure levels and any slight difference between H4831 and H4831SC would be insignificant given the conservative nature the of the data to begin with and the temperature insensitivity of H4831SC.

    I don't have any direct experience with the H4831SC powder in the 7x57 but do have a lot of experience loading and hunting with the 150 gr Nosler Partition and 4350 powder loaded to a modest 2550 fps muzzle vel. I would imagine a quality 160 grain bullet loaded to roughly similar ballistics would be equally if not more effective on big game.
     
  11. Areaonereal

    Areaonereal AH Enthusiast

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    The discussing the 4350 series of powder, ALWAYS remember that two,distinct powders exist...DuPont IMR 4350 and Hodgdon H 4350/H4350 SC are two different powders and not interchangeable for loading data. When referencing 4350 it is imperative to note whether it is DuPonts IMR 4350 or Hodgdon H4350/H4350 SC...two separate powders from different manufactures.....the same exists with the 4831 series...IMR 4831 and H4831 Two separate powders with separate loading data.....Data is not interchangeable between the two manufacturers...this is common knowledge in the US, but may be confusing to consumers in other countries. The 4831 series being the slower burning of the two by a minimal amount, normally for a heavier bullet, but there are exceptions, especially in the 22/250 cases where 4831 works extremely well with lighter bullets, and also very well in the 270 with 130 gr bullets
     
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  12. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Veteran

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    Test labs use a very wide variety of test guns and components all under potentially very different conditions. Much of the variation of data between powders of the same generic type cannot be attributed to differences of brand/label alone. Also, there is enough variation between lots of the identical brand/label powder that lot to lot variation can show significant differences in the data. Therefore, the 5-10% reduction "rule" when working up loads no matter the brand/label.
     
  13. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Veteran

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    Can't have too much data :) Top to bottom:
    Hodgdon data 160 gr
    Hornady data 162 gr
    Lee data 160 gr
    Lyman data 162 gr
    Nosler data 160 gr
    Nosler data 160 gr
    Speer data 160 gr TBBC
    Speer data 160 gr
    Accurate/AA powder notes

    7x57 Hodgdon website data.png 7x57 Hornady data.JPG 7x57 Lee data.JPG 7x57 Lyman data.JPG 7x57 Nosler data.JPG 7x57 Nosler website data.png 7x57 Speer data -1.JPG 7x57 Speer data.JPG 7x57 AA- Accurate Powder notes .JPG
     
  14. ZG47

    ZG47 AH Enthusiast

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    Other way around, mate and ... contrary to advertising, Steve Collings told me some years ago that he had seen Hodgdon labelled canisters coming off the ADI production line, during a tour of the facility.

    AR2213 and latterly AR2213SC have been standard heavy bullet propellants for the 6.5x55 in Australia and NZ for a long time. If you consider that N550, along with the similar-performing H414/W760 propellant, is a standard all round propellant for the 7x57, you can see why loads using anything slower than AR2209/H4350 are relatively uncommon for the 7x57.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  15. Rob404

    Rob404 BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    My go to load for accuracy and fps(2614) is 46g of Win760
     
  16. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Veteran

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    Some Hodgdon/IMR powders are made by ADI (Thales) in Australia here is a cross reference table:
    ADI to Hodgdon conversion table.png
     
  17. Michael Dean

    Michael Dean AH Veteran

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    You are correct, SC stands for short cut and the two powders can be interchanged for each other. The rationale for SC is for loads that are close to filling cases where you need condensed loads.
     
  18. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow AH Member

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    Thanks! We reloaders are certainly spoilt for choice! What I am looking for is a case that is above 85% full (I believe this usually helps with ballistic consistency and accuracy). The other bonus with the H4831 (SC) is its insensitivity to temperature. I do not want a 'summer ' and 'winter' load!

    I see I can also get IMR 4955 and IMR 4451 as well as VARGET!! I feel like it is Christmas!! No IMR 4350 or H4350 unfortunately...
     
  19. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow AH Member

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    I am really looking forward to taking my 'new' 7x57 out for some clean, fresh air on my friends very large game ranch on the Limpopo River/ Tuli area. A great area for this classic African caliber.

    I intend to hunt kudu, zebra, warthog as well as a few others... I feel the Nosler AB 160 grain bullet at about 2400fps would do very well for this?

    Not long to go now, I have one more shot (no pun intended!) to sort it out. I do have two very promising loads...

    Here are two photos from when I was on the property in 2013....

    IMG_6053.JPG IMG_6096.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2017
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  20. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow AH Member

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    I am really looking forward to taking my 'new' 7x57 out for some clean, fresh air on my friends very large game ranch on the Limpopo River/ Tuli area. A great area for this classic African caliber.

    I intend to hunt kudu, zebra, warthog as well as a few others... I feel the Nosler AB 160 grain bullet at about 2400fps would do very well for this?

    Not long to go now, I have one more shot (no pun intended!) to sort it out. I do have two very promising loads...

    Here are two photos from when I was on the property in 2013....
     
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