Taming the 378 weatherby

[Rifleman97]

Rifleman97 makes a good point, but the fact is that the rifle arrived on the scene when the bullets available weren't suitable to make it any better than a .375 H&H and even today it isn't generally found in suitably heavy rifles. It has a reputation, and at the time the reputation formed, it was well-deserved.

Absolutely. It was very well deserved. Light rifles, rounds that were not available, bullets that weren’t bonded or solid copper that would grenade due to being pushed so fast.

But if you were to build a rifle today (emphasis on build) you could overcome every one of those flaws. Internet ordering from weatherby fixes availability, loadings with bonded and solid bullets fix bullet construction issues, and a heavier profile barrel and weights in the stock can reduce recoil to sub 416 rigby levels, with significantly less bullet drop in the process. Plains game can be taken at 200+ with basically no holdover, dangerous game with the 350 grain .375 bullets put its energy level matching (or exceeding in some cases) the rigby/remington/ruger.

The case volume is very similar to the rigby, so loading down the 378 (or 416) to rigby pressures will give you more reasonable recoil and velocities with much more readily available brass than a 404 Jeffery, or even to a lesser extent the rigby. During most of the Covid shortages you could *still* get 378,416,460 weatherby brass.

Would I go build one? No, but if someone did it right I’d think “good for them” and not “why would you do such a thing?!”

 

[C.W. Richter]

If you think that Weatherby's rifles and cartridges are out there, you need to check out the Lazzeroni line.

Lazzeroni Rifles

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I'm only familiar with all the .338 variants. The gen 1 338 A-Square (belted) did precisely the same decades prior. The gen 2 version (Excalibur) outshined both by just a tad. Reinvention of the Wheel (like most ALL cartridge "introductions" these days-and for decades!) Some are even less impressive-but they still introduce them for sale, based upon an ad, a commercial, a mention by a TV hunter that gets free shit...LOL SMH. All mentioned cream the intermediate .338 Lapua everyone drools over (because of media tales.) LOL (IOW there is NO improving a necked down big bore cartridge that takes <120 gr of powder in 338). That's IT! (In 416, you have 80, 90, 100 gr case capacity variants-and they ALL push a 400 gr slug to 2,450 fps.)

 

[BryceM]

Truthfully, a .378 Wby in a custom (heavy) synthetic stocked Mk V action with a .375 suppressor would be quite a nice DG rifle, especially with TSX bullets or similar. It's not at all "classic" and it isn't something I'd likely buy, but it would be effective.

 

[One Day...]

The 378 weatherby seems to be a rather unpopular caliber on here due to the excessive recoil. It would appear to have some significant advantages over some of the other 375 calibers if the recoil could be mitigated. I was considering trying to build one with Edward’s recoil reducers and/ or a falcon strike recoil pad. I’d like to avoid a muzzle break if possible. Has anyone tried these products on a 378? Any thoughts or suggestions?

To do what?

A few thoughts come to mind...

1. Your PH will NEVER let you shoot dangerous game past 100 yards, which is a distance close enough for the .375 H&H to do anything (trajectory, penetration, etc.) you may want from a .375 slug.
2. Most .375 traditional bullets on the market have been designed for H&H velocity. I would not try to shoot an AFrame at the Wby velocity ... but a TSX may / will likely perform.
3. Will a .378 Wby kill faster than a .375 H&H? We all know that energy does not kill, but I am on record for arguing that energy is a good indicator of DG cartridges killing power when comparing cartridges of similar design that fire similar bullets of similar weight at similar velocity, e.g. comparing energy between .375 H&H, .416 Rem and .458 Lott is useful. However, pumping up the energy by increasing velocity alone is not a proven way to increase killing power in dangerous game, e.g. comparing energy between .375 H&H and .378 Wby is a lot less useful. So, will a .378 Wby kill faster or better than a .375 H&H? I do not necessarily think so.

What made Weatherby PG calibers useful

Weatherby has produced some very useful cartridges. For example:

• The .257 Wby shoots incredibly flat, with little noise or recoil and delivers disproportionate killing power.
• The .300 Wby is probably the most "universal" caliber there is.
• The .460 Wby has a limited but extremely loyal following among African PHs.
• The .375 Wby corrected the .375 H&H arcing trajectory on plains game for one-rifle-safaris.

But not every caliber needs a 400 yards Maximum Point-Blank Range (MPBR), and this is where the Weatherby concept meets its practical limitations and derails out of context.

Before laser range finders and reliable BDC turrets existed (outside of the military), increasing the MPBR made sense for plains and mountains game. This is where .25, .27, .28, .30, .33 Wby mags really shone because 300 to 400 yards shots make sense, from Mountain Goat, to Pronghorn, to Marco Polo, to Mountain Nyala, to Moose.

Now that most hunters click their turret, the performance gaps between the .300 Wby and the .300 Win, or the .340 Wby and the .338 Win, are much less meaningful.

Time of flight (hence wind resistance) remains a Wby advantage, as well as the velocity to open tough monometal slugs (e.g. TTSX).

What made all but one Weatherby DG calibers not very useful

But nobody ever needed to shoot Lion, Eland, Buffalo or Elephant at 300 yards, and cranking up the speed on the .378 Wby or .416 Wby serves ... no real purpose. And noise and recoil are real detriments, creating rightfully the negative Weatherby legend in Africa of PH and trackers deafened by the guns, and clients incapable of shooting well and afraid of their gun.

The .460 Wby is different: its 500 gr solids penetrates deeper than those of the .458 Win, and THIS has value on Buffalo, Elephant, Hippo, etc. especially shooting lengthwise at an escaping or charging animal as PH are required to do.

Modern hyper-velocity Weatherby calibers usefulness ?

As to the usefulness of the .30-378 Wby or .338-378 Wby (or equivalent RUM, Lazzeroni, etc.), I am skeptical, for the same reason as indicated here under. But there is no arguing with the Marketing Department, right?

Redeeming value ?

Maybe the only argument that could have some semblance of rationale would be to say that the .378 Wby would make a better one-rifle-safari gun than the .375 H&H, because if would provide long range PG reach.

But that, of course, only stands if it can be shot as accurately as a .257 or .300 Wby ... which I doubt very much, as recoil control is ingredient #1 in accurate long range shooting.

 

[RR 314]

Absolutely. It was very well deserved. Light rifles, rounds that were not available, bullets that weren’t bonded or solid copper that would grenade due to being pushed so fast.

But if you were to build a rifle today (emphasis on build) you could overcome every one of those flaws. Internet ordering from weatherby fixes availability, loadings with bonded and solid bullets fix bullet construction issues, and a heavier profile barrel and weights in the stock can reduce recoil to sub 416 rigby levels, with significantly less bullet drop in the process. Plains game can be taken at 200+ with basically no holdover, dangerous game with the 350 grain .375 bullets put its energy level matching (or exceeding in some cases) the rigby/remington/ruger.

The case volume is very similar to the rigby, so loading down the 378 (or 416) to rigby pressures will give you more reasonable recoil and velocities with much more readily available brass than a 404 Jeffery, or even to a lesser extent the rigby. During most of the Covid shortages you could *still* get 378,416,460 weatherby brass.

Would I go build one? No, but if someone did it right I’d think “good for them” and not “why would you do such a thing?!”

Well said. I have heard tale of a .378 out there somewhere built by one of the masters. . I would love to see it come to the market because the chambering would hurt it significantly on the resale market. I’d be down for the cause.