Starting to look for my first Double for Buffalo and need some advice from folks smarter than me...

[Slider]

It might be difficult to get a Double to fit you and your son both. Unless of course you are the same size? Get a newer used 450/400 3" Nitro it has a little more HP than a 375 and is a Cream Puff to shoot. Avoid Rimless Cartriges. (375H&H, 416 Remington, 416 Rigby or 458 Win Mag) Vintage Doubles use lower Barrel pressures and you shouldn't use newer Mono Solids in them. Doubles arn't shot much and last for ever.

 

[HankBuck]

It might be difficult to get a Double to fit you and your son both. Unless of course you are the same size? Get a newer used 450/400 3" Nitro it has a little more HP than a 375 and is a Cream Puff to shoot. Avoid Rimless Cartriges. (375H&H, 416 Remington, 416 Rigby or 458 Win Mag) Vintage Doubles use lower Barrel pressures and you shouldn't use newer Mono Solids in them. Doubles arn't shot much and last for ever.

I thought (might be wrong) that a .416 Rigby was a classic Double Rifle cartridge ? I’m of very limited experience with double rifles

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I thought (might be wrong) that a .416 Rigby was a classic Double Rifle cartridge ? I’m of very limited experience with double rifles

It’s a rimless cartridge developed for bolt actions. Some double rifles made in it now.

Rimmed cartridges in .416 cal are the .500/.416 NE [came out in the 80s or 90s/ developed by A-Sqare(??) or Krieghoff(?)] and the 416 Rigby No. 2 (came out last year/developed by Rigby).

 

[HankBuck]

It’s a rimless cartridge developed for bolt actions. Some double rifles made in it now.

Rimmed cartridges in .416 cal are the .500/.416 NE [came out in the 80s or 90s/ developed by A-Sqare(??) or Krieghoff(?)] and the 416 Rigby No. 2 (came out last year/developed by Rigby).

Thank you for the insight and clarification. I had thought that I read in a book, back in the 1960s, that some author (can’t recall the name) stated that the “.416 Rigby is insufficient for elephant” and went on to site a hunter dead from elephant charge and lying next to his .416....cant recall the details that support my foolish assumption or how I imagined the .416 Rigby was one of the early double rifle calibers. This reflects my “reading” vs. actual knowledge & experience. Now to further my “assumptions” - is the .416 Rigby identical (ballistically) to the .416 Remington BUT superior or preferred for other reasons?

 

[Ray B]

Now to further my “assumptions” - is the .416 Rigby identical (ballistically) to the .416 Remington BUT superior or preferred for other reasons?

The Rigby has a larger case (powder) capacity than the Remington. The Remington developers wanted the Remington to equal the Rigby ballistically, which it does, but they accomplished it by having higher pressures. Recent powder development has reduced the issue of increased pressure due to hot ammo, such as in Africa on a hot day- so the advantage of the Rigby's lesser pressure is not as big a deal as it once was.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Thank you for the insight and clarification. I had thought that I read in a book, back in the 1960s, that some author (can’t recall the name) stated that the “.416 Rigby is insufficient for elephant” and went on to site a hunter dead from elephant charge and lying next to his .416....cant recall the details that support my foolish assumption or how I imagined the .416 Rigby was one of the early double rifle calibers. This reflects my “reading” vs. actual knowledge & experience. Now to further my “assumptions” - is the .416 Rigby identical (ballistically) to the .416 Remington BUT superior or preferred for other reasons?

What Ray said

 

[alby]

I would recommend you decide what YOU WANT first. Then be patient and check every possible outlet daily. Be patient and willing to wait for the one your heart desires.

My favorite is a W. J. Jeffery 450-400 3 inch. I purchased it on an internet auction. I then sent it to J.J. Perodeau for some fine tuning and to correct a couple of issues it had. I hand loaded to regulate the gun and it is an absolute dream. The price I paid plus the work done fit your budget and it has a certain panache that sets it apart.

I am taking it to Africa later this month for Cape Buffalo.

Any chance of some photos @Rem700stw?

 

[HankBuck]

The Rigby has a larger case (powder) capacity than the Remington. The Remington developers wanted the Remington to equal the Rigby ballistically, which it does, but they accomplished it by having higher pressures. Recent powder development has reduced the issue of increased pressure due to hot ammo, such as in Africa on a hot day- so the advantage of the Rigby's lesser pressure is not as big a deal as it once was.

Thank you for the detailed explanation -

 

[yhc]

I am starting my research on a double. I have looked at Heym and some modern rifles on line ( no dealers around) . I may want to consider an older one for nostalgic reasons of wondering where the rifle has been and the stories if it could talk.

i have done a lot of hunting in Alaska and been to Africa once (plains game) and do the best i can to watch You tube and lots of videos. To date the largest calibers I have shot regularly are 375, 338 and 8MM magnum. All very light mountain guns. I have never had the pleasure of holding a double. (Alaska is not that kind gun of place to have a few around).

Back to the videos... I see a fair number of clients whiff or do some poor shooting inside 50 yards... due to nerves? due to recoil? or both... I was thinking of going with a 400 Jeffery in something, as I would rather shoot it accurately as I can vs buying a gun and having a problem with the recoil, since i cant try any of them.

Any thoughts on the above or where a gun like this could be found would be appreciated from aficionados and more experienced folks would be appreciated.

JT

Good evening and welcome aboard JT.

Whereabouts in Alaska are you located?

 

[1dirthawker]

I am starting my research on a double. I have looked at Heym and some modern rifles on line ( no dealers around) . I may want to consider an older one for nostalgic reasons of wondering where the rifle has been and the stories if it could talk.

i have done a lot of hunting in Alaska and been to Africa once (plains game) and do the best i can to watch You tube and lots of videos. To date the largest calibers I have shot regularly are 375, 338 and 8MM magnum. All very light mountain guns. I have never had the pleasure of holding a double. (Alaska is not that kind gun of place to have a few around).

Back to the videos... I see a fair number of clients whiff or do some poor shooting inside 50 yards... due to nerves? due to recoil? or both... I was thinking of going with a 400 Jeffery in something, as I would rather shoot it accurately as I can vs buying a gun and having a problem with the recoil, since i cant try any of them.

Any thoughts on the above or where a gun like this could be found would be appreciated from aficionados and more experienced folks would be appreciated.

JT

@Alaskajt,

i am with kevin peacock on this one, get a 450-400 3" and don't look back. it is big enough for up to elephant, you will be able to shoot it well, be able to put sights on it (i use a scoped o/u zoli) and you will be able to shoot to 200 yards.

there was a guy that verified woodleigh bullets (dave something or other) he started out with larger caliber rifles but ended up with the 450-400 after having shot hundreds of water buffalo in Australia. i believe the thought it was the right combo of weight, shootablility and effectiveness. enough said from a guy that shot a lot of buffalo. my 2 cents

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I would 2nd a vote for the .470NE — but I’m one of the “least experienced” African Hunters on this Forum....there are many more & better experts to consult with then me on a double rifle. I still own my .470NE Chapuis from my one & only Safari (Tanzania hunt 15 years ago) - love it....I Must Love it - all I do now is take it out of my safe, admire & clean it.
I chose the .470NE for Buffalo but had hoped to add Elephant and Lion a few years down the road (never happened). If my only game was Buffalo - might of gone with a .416 Rigby. My thought in picking that gun: 1). I could afford the Chapuis $15k vs. a used Rigby $68k or newer Holland & Holland $100k+. I liked the “look” of the Chapuis more then other ‘affordable’ Doubles (Kreigoff or Merkle) although looks are Unimportant to some (not me). I already had a .375 bolt action that is adequate for Buffalo but I “wanted” a double rifle. I figured the .470NE was a “classic” caliber with 100 year of History and still going strong - must be a reason?? Also, was told ammo easier to locate (even in Africa) then some other big bore calibers. As far as recoil - it gets my attention but I was ble to shoot it very well in Practice, off the sticks, off hand 50-100 yrds... I tried to set the gun up for a lifetime “heirloom” quality gun - detachable scope mounts that were custom made to return to zero, exhibition grade wood, LH cheek piece, modest engraving. The gun came out perfect - me “less so”. On my actual hunt - I was Not as good shooting it as I was in practice and guess “excitement” was the reason....but that was my fault - the gun was flawless and 1” MOA at 50 yrds, 1.5” out to 100 yrds. I later added a mercury recoil suppressor in the butt stock and that tamed it down a bit. While I considered getting my double in .416 Rigby I decided that I wanted bigger - mostly for if I ever went for Elephant and that kept me pointed to the .470NE.
Since the Safari I’ve only shot my .470NE Chapuis a few times but still enjoy owning it (for now). I can also “create” a reason to hunt with it - Black Bear hunt over bait ? and I did shoot one deer with it - on my Farm during early part of rifle season - warm sunny day...reminded me of Africa and might be as close as I get !!

I hear this a lot - a double bought too big, 'just in case', and then it kicks shootability into touch. Buy what you can REALLY handle and really enjoy it. What is the point of going over the top, I just don't get it.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I am no expert on doubles, but I do own one. Just a word of advice, they are a horse of a different color. I generally shoot handloads, but not in my double - haven't been able to get handloads to regulate like factory loads. Also mounting the red dot site was a complete fiasco. Best of luck.

Hi Beck, talk here or PM me about mounting a red dot onto a double. I learned a lot fast, after making a few mistakes. Kevin

 

[KJE81]

I went with the .375 Flanged Magnum for my double rifle, mostly because swedish gun legislation forces you to make do with 4-6 rifles and shotguns and this has to work for domestic hunt on moose, driven boar, brown bears and elk because I need the other spots for other guns for upland hunting, practice, hunting bird with my finnish spitz etc.

The .375 Flanged is probably on the weaker side for elephant but should make do on a buffalo and I dont think I will be able to afford more then perhaps one elephant hunt and a couple of buffalo hunts in the future so as long as it is legal it still feels right due to the fact that I can use it so well domestically.

If it were not fore the aforementioned gun legislation of Sweden I am sure that I would have had a 8x57 JRS or 9,3X74R for domestic hunting and .375 H&H and .470 NE combo for those rare trips to Africa.

But even though the calibre is on the light side, it does look the part! Especially with some props in the picture

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I went with the .375 Flanged Magnum for my double rifle, mostly because swedish gun legislation forces you to make do with 4-6 rifles and shotguns and this has to work for domestic hunt on moose, driven boar, brown bears and elk because I need the other spots for other guns for upland hunting, practice, hunting bird with my finnish spitz etc.

The .375 Flanged is probably on the weaker side for elephant but should make do on a buffalo and I dont think I will be able to afford more then perhaps one elephant hunt and a couple of buffalo hunts in the future so as long as it is legal it still feels right due to the fact that I can use it so well domestically.

If it were not fore the aforementioned gun legislation of Sweden I am sure that I would have had a 8x57 JRS or 9,3X74R for domestic hunting and .375 H&H and .470 NE combo for those rare trips to Africa.

But even though the calibre is on the light side, it does look the part! Especially with some props in the picture

View attachment 534931

When I bought my 375 Flanged Magnum I researched long and hard and came to the conclusion as did others on this site that it is absolutely up to buffalo hunting and has taken droves of elephant. It is about accuracy and a light framed 375 FL is indeed easy to shoot accurately, especially if scoped as your's is. If I were ever to change out my Heym 450/400 it would be for a Heym light frame 375 FL, scoped.

 

[HankBuck]

I hear this a lot - a double bought too big, 'just in case', and then it kicks shootability into touch. Buy what you can REALLY handle and really enjoy it. What is the point of going over the top, I just don't get it.

I like your advice about not going too big - you have to be able to shoot it accurately. I didn’t know about some of the alternative calibers (that I’m reading about now on this forum) when I was selecting my double. Had I known what I know now - might of selected differently but I had always thought that someday I’d go for elephant and that .470NE was reasonable for that. One thing I knew with certainty - couldn’t afford TWO double rifles! What would you consider the “standard” for Elephant and what is the “safe minimum”? Not the minimum allowed but the recommendation from those experienced on elephant?

 

[flyfishdoc]

check out the Chapuis Iphisi .375.

 

[Rem700stw]

Ok Alby here goes

 

[Rem700stw]

 

[Rem700stw]

Middle one. Sorry for the picture quality. I hate technology......

 

[mikecatt13]

I'm partial but I'd highly recommend looking for a Blaser S2. They're not easy to find because they're discontinued, but still serviced and supported by Blaser and Blaser USA. Amazing triggers, easy scope mounting options, impressive and adjustable regulation , etc. I was fortunate enough to track down multiple barrels and am able to use and enjoy it for more than just dangerous game inside 50 yards. The other barrels are nice for sure, but I'm fully confident in the accuracy to be able to attach the QD scope to my .470NE barrels and take plains game accurately and ethically out to over 100 yards.

It's such an amazing platform that I've been tempted to buy another just to have, and regret not doing so!

One big thing you need to consider no matter the gun brand is ammo availability. Ammo is scarce and even if you want to reload, there are certain components that you cannot get for certain calibers, even regardless of budget.