Stalking safety

[JPmbogo]

Anyone familiar with "stalking safeties" on early Holland & Holland Royal double rifles?

 

[Zinz]

My Adams&Co .577BPE hammer double has stalking safeties. They only engage the back of the hammers at 1/2 cock not at full cock, which adds an extra step when very close to game. I wish mine engaged at full cock.

Ed Z

 

[JPmbogo]

Yes, they were quite common on exposed hammer guns, but apparently they were also sometimes added to hammerless guns as well. An H&H Royal 450/400 currently listed for sale in NZ is described as having such a safety. "It was Started in 1897 and finished in 1898. It is a Holland Royal No.2 Which is the same as its more expensive No.1 although with only border and minimal engraving. The upper tang extends onto the comb and the rifle is fitted with a "Stalking Safety" as well as the traditional safety with SAFE in gold." See attached photo. I have a Royal in 240 flanged that was built in 1907 in 375 (pre magnum version) and later rebarrelled in 240 in 1949. It shows a similar feature? See attached photo: Curiously, I have all available shop records on the rifle, both the original build sheets and the subsequent rebarrelling order. No mention is made of such a feature.

 

[JPmbogo]

Please note that the top photo is the 240 I own; the bottom the NZ gun listed for sale.

 

[JPmbogo]

I stand corrected. Upon further review of available records on my Royal, I see a reference to an "extra safety." See attached photo of build sheet:

 

[Shako Badhan]

This might be wrong, but from my experience it seems like the “extra safely” feature on boxlock doubles was very common for rifles intended for use in India.

When I see examples with this feature it’s almost always on a rifle in 450/400 or under with Indian game scene engraving or Indian provenance.

If this is correct, is there a reason this was a popular feature?

 

[KIH]

At least Purdey offer it to day https://www.purdey.com/products/sidelock-double-rifle-1

 

[JPmbogo]

At least Purdey offer it to day https://www.purdey.com/products/sidelock-double-rifle-1

You are right on. Rather than "stalking safety" it is called a bolt safety. Hallowell has photos posted showing an example:

 

[JPmbogo]

That photo above of my Royal 240 shows the lever removed, hence the confusion, at least for me.
Thanks for your help

 

[Captain Jack]

My Lancaster .450 No. 2 from 1905 has one:

 

[alby]

My Lancaster .450 No. 2 from 1905 has one:

View attachment 777811

I like that rifle Captain! A great calibre too!

 

[Captain Jack]

I like that rifle Captain! A great calibre too!

Thanks! It's one of my favorite things, truly a fine rifle. I acquired it from a forum member.

Great to see that other makers have used a similar setup. I was unaware that stalking safeties existed until I bought the Lancaster, but it's a feature I really appreciate for a rifle meant for adventures in the thick stuff.

 

[rookhawk]

Yes, they were quite common on exposed hammer guns, but apparently they were also sometimes added to hammerless guns as well. An H&H Royal 450/400 currently listed for sale in NZ is described as having such a safety. "It was Started in 1897 and finished in 1898. It is a Holland Royal No.2 Which is the same as its more expensive No.1 although with only border and minimal engraving. The upper tang extends onto the comb and the rifle is fitted with a "Stalking Safety" as well as the traditional safety with SAFE in gold." See attached photo. I have a Royal in 240 flanged that was built in 1907 in 375 (pre magnum version) and later rebarrelled in 240 in 1949. It shows a similar feature? See attached photo: Curiously, I have all available shop records on the rifle, both the original build sheets and the subsequent rebarrelling order. No mention is made of such a feature.View attachment 776142View attachment 776141

That is not a stalking safety if you'd permit me to be pedantic. That is what we call a bolted safety. Its a tiny second top lever that denies the tang safety from moving forward to the fire position. Many best hammerless double rifles had this feature.

Stalking safeties were on hammer guns to prevent them going off by being snagged in thick cover. All that I have seen operated at the half-cocked position so that IF the trigger tripped or the sear slipped from jarring, the hammer would not instantly slam forward firing from a half-cocked position when the stalking safety is disengaged.

 

[Captain Jack]

That is not a stalking safety if you'd permit me to be pedantic. That is what we call a bolted safety. Its a tiny second top lever that denies the tang safety from moving forward to the fire position. Many best hammerless double rifles had this feature.

Stalking safeties were on hammer guns to prevent them going off by being snagged in thick cover. All that I have seen operated at the half-cocked position so that IF the trigger tripped or the sear slipped from jarring, the hammer would not instantly slam forward firing from a half-cocked position when the stalking safety is disengaged.

I was picking my tired brain trying to remember the terminology you had used. Bolted safety, not stalking safety. It's a wonderful feature, particularly so as parts may wear and safeties may disengage more easily with time and use.

 

[JPmbogo]

My Lancaster .450 No. 2 from 1905 has one:

View attachment 777811

Thanks for the photo - have added it to my info collection on this rather arcane topic.

 

[JPmbogo]

That is not a stalking safety if you'd permit me to be pedantic. That is what we call a bolted safety. Its a tiny second top lever that denies the tang safety from moving forward to the fire position. Many best hammerless double rifles had this feature.

Stalking safeties were on hammer guns to prevent them going off by being snagged in thick cover. All that I have seen operated at the half-cocked position so that IF the trigger tripped or the sear slipped from jarring, the hammer would not instantly slam forward firing from a half-cocked position when the stalking safety is disengaged.

I believe I had made that distinction earlier in this thread.

 

[wvfred]

They were found on German guns too as with this one.

 

[steve white]

I was picking my tired brain trying to remember the terminology you had used. Bolted safety, not stalking safety. It's a wonderful feature, particularly so as parts may wear and safeties may disengage more easily with time and use.

Is it a wonderful feature that could get a man killed in an unexpected charge at close quarters? Safety working is one thing, safety complicating self defense is another IMO.

 

[Captain Jack]

Is it a wonderful feature that could get a man killed in an unexpected charge at close quarters? Safety working is one thing, safety complicating self defense is another IMO.

Of course it's possible. Like anything else, it's a feature that requires the user to practice its use until it becomes second nature, which one should do with any dangerous game rifle. I'd say it's analogous to having a 3-position safety on a bolt rifle, which I've never heard anyone describe as dangerous. Is it an extra step? Absolutely.

It will, however, most likely prevent you from accidentally disengaging your safety while stalking through the brush, snagging your trigger on something, and having an unintended discharge with potentially fatal consequences.