SOUTH AFRICA: NB Safaris In SA - The Good, The Bad & The Ugly (Hunt Report)

Discussion in 'Hunting Reports Africa' started by Gater, Aug 30, 2019.

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  1. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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    I am willing to offer my services either as an arbitrator or mediator. I have many years of experience setting disputes. If all parties will be at DSC, I could do it there.
     

  2. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    Good morning Hank, well said. And I am more then willing to work with someone that can assist. The client is in the LA area and I think the arbitrator needs to finically be able to see his mounts. Do we have a SCI rep in that area willing to assist?
     

  3. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    Good morning Wesheltonj, as the trophies are in LA area I am not sure this is going to work for the client. I really appreciate you offering and if the client is willing I will meet there with pleasure. What ever it takes.
     

  4. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    Physically see the mounts.
     
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  5. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    If needs be friends, I will gladly make a flight over just for this. As soon as we have found a suitable arbitrator in the LA area. I would like to set a date ASAP that works for both Jeff and I and I will gladly be there. What is right is right.
     
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  6. PeteG

    PeteG AH Elite

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    Will the flight, accommodations, taxi and all the rest that goes with a flight to USA not cost more than the $750 that is being asked for?
     
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  7. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    Way more Pete, it’s not the money. Let’s get this settled
     

  8. Adrian

    Adrian AH Fanatic

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    At the end of the day, is a third party needed?

    It's plain to see the capes are missing hair and this is not the fault of the hunter.

    There was obviously poor management of the capes between the shot being taken and the mounting of them.
    Care of the capes and treatment process is the responsibility of the outfitter and his staff.

    As far as I am aware, the hunter was not told of the bald patches and hair slippage and nor was it made obvious in the photos provided to him.

    As soon as the slippage became apparent, the taxidermist should've communicated to the outfitter, the outfitter should've communicated that to the hunter and sought advice on how to proceed.
    The outfitter and taxidermist are affiliated apparently so communication should not be an issue.

    For whatever reason, it was not made apparent to the hunter and the taxidermy work was carried out resulting in mounts of sub standard quality.

    The taxidermy was paid for in good faith and delivered to the hunter who discovered issues that he should've been made aware of before this point.

    The hunter has a level of expectation for the money spent and I don't think there is a person here who would be happy with what was provided to him.

    The taxidermist should've reported the capes were in poor condition and asked for advice on how to proceed.

    The outfitter may have been oblivious to the faults and not been aware until after mounts were delivered to the hunter and the complaint raised.

    Whatever the finer details, the fact remains that there is an unhappy customer who has paid for something that is not of the quality expected.

    This fault lies in Africa and those involved.

    If anyone pays for goods or services and they are not right, they can return them or seek a refund. That's normal.

    The outfitter and taxidermist should be seeking a resolution with their customer who is unhappy, in this case a refund for the mounts that have suffered hair slippage and were mounted anyway is not unreasonable or a quote obtained by the customer for cost of repair that should be met by the outfitter and taxidermist.

    Come on guys, work it out and get it sorted!
     
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  9. PeteG

    PeteG AH Elite

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    For what its worth, my opinion would be to agree on an amount to refund, apologize for the quality of the taxidermy work and ask for an opportunity to show the client a better result on another trip with the Gemsbok as primary target.
    It sucks as a supplier of a service, but it is sometimes the best way forward unfortunately.

    Do what you can to keep the client as happy as can be (it may be too late for that already) and hopefully he gives you a chance to redeem yourself. Whether or not the taxidermy is your fault, whether or not there was miscommunication between you, the agent and the client. Regardless of the circumstances, simply arguing about the taxidermy is not worth the trouble, negative remarks, reputation damage and the negativity that comes along with threads like this.
    For example, if you had simply bit the bullet and compensated him, he would most likely be recommending you and your outfit for doing right by him on his hunt.
    That kind of recommendation on this site will compensate YOU more than enough to cover the losses incurred on this one hunt.

    You are willing to travel all the way to USA to look at the mounts in person. Why?
    What happens if you spend all the money to go there and you feel the mounts are good enough, regardless of his feelings? Will you ask he reimburse you for the flights and costs? Is that the direction this is going to go?
    What happens if you spend all the money to go there and find the mounts truly are in the state as described? Will you compensate him the $750 his is asking as well as being out the travel costs?

    He is the customer, a dissatisfied one at that.
    Regardless of your thoughts on the mounts, he is not happy. You supplied a product that has not met expectation. As a customer, try please him as much as possible. You can argue your point as far as you want, if he is not happy, then he will remain unhappy. Whether you "prove" by physically seeing the mounts yourself or not, he will remain dissatisfied with the result.

    If you truly want a third party to be involved, which PHASA isn't, then why don't you choose a Taxidermist in USA to inspect the mounts and report back? That is a truly third party opinion.
    Will you refund him if a third party reaffirms the mounts are substandard and have been damaged?

    These are just some thoughts that have come from reading through this thread.
    Note that I am not accusing you of anything, or taking sides, i am trying to point out the observations of myself and many others on here as to the most suitable "way out" of this unfortunate predicament.
     

  10. Gater

    Gater AH Senior Member

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    This is the most reasonable and logical solution at this point IMO. I’d gladly allow a 3rd party taxidermist come to my house and inspect the trophies. I’m not interested in having Neil inspect them as A) that opportunity has already been presented through high quality photos. B) is far from impartial.

    Point to note - I live north of Dallas TX, not in the LA area.

    If anyone would like to help arrange a qualified taxidermist who Neil 100% agrees to, again, I’d be happy to have them inspect the mounts.

    Also, I tried to be as reasonable as possible with my request as to not sound greedy and just after a pile of money. That ship has already sailed as we’ve all seen unfold.

    Neil, since you say its not about the money, would agree to refund the amount that the 3rd party taxidermist quotes to fully repair the mounts?

    That would show an incredible leap of faith that you truly care about client satisfaction.
     
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  11. Gater

    Gater AH Senior Member

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    And while we’re at it, can we arrange a taxidermist to inspect my Dad’s kudu as well? I’ve posted pics of it in my other thread too and it’s horrendous.

    He lives about 2 hours south of Denver Co.
     
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  12. TTundra

    TTundra AH Enthusiast

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    You have @gizmo somewhat near you, but would still be a little bit of a haul.
     

  13. Gater

    Gater AH Senior Member

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    One point - Neil - it was clear in your communications with me that you deny any preventable hair slip on the mounts. I’ve sent you and posted high quality pictures of the mounts. Dozens of people on here agree that it’s hair slip - caused by poor field prep.

    Yet you still insist on inspecting the mounts. What is your contention at this point?

    Do you not agree there is hair missing?
    Do you not agree that the missing hair is hair slip?
    Do you not agree that it’s possible improper field prep caused the hair slip?
    Do you not agree someone should have contacted me about that before mounting the hides?

    Please, explain for everyone here to understand why after all the pictures you’ve seen and opinions you’ve read, you’re still wanting to see the mounts yourself and/or allow a 3rd party to make a decision which binds you to an outcome?

    Help us understand your logic.
     

  14. johnnyblues

    johnnyblues AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    A lot of outfits get in trouble over African Taxidermy is seems. I realize clients need dip/pack services, where the trouble always seems to appear is in the finished Taxidermy product. It’s a recurring thread here. Man just send them home to be done, spend a little more money and avoid this kind of fiasco!
     

  15. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Legend

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    I quasi agree with you. The issue is there are some bad taxidermist in the US as well. The issue seems to come up more using the outfitters "guy", seems to me that is where the problem starts.
     
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  16. Gater

    Gater AH Senior Member

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    100% agree. This is what I can’t wrap my head around. I’ve already agreed at this point to have a US taxidermist inspect the mounts - but why should it have even come to this?!

    I’ll commend Neil for sticking with this thread and responding to comments. It’s not easy to go up against a large group of people who clearly disagree with the way you’ve handled a situation. But to still, at this point, not even admit he sees an issue with the mounts and wants to see them in person before agreeing to a resolution is mind boggling.

    As I stated, I was a parts and service rep for a auto manufacturer - I would authorize full vehicle repainting, which is $10-15k, based off pictures alone if they clearly showed the defects in question.
     
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  17. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    Hi jeff,
    Yes please. I would like to be present if possible. Many thanks. I look forward to resolving this.
    I have no problem. I have also just had a meeting with George the Professional Hunter that guided you and he will gladly share his views on the Gemsbok issue.
    As I said, let’s get a 3rd party to inspect. This was my suggestion from the beginning.
     

  18. leslie hetrick

    leslie hetrick AH Enthusiast

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    after all the dust up, how does he still think by trying to save a few hundred dollars he will come out ahead? if he loses 4-5 hunts-hunters he just cut off his nose to spite his face. he just should have written a check and side stepped this whole mess. does this mean I would not hunt with him, no but I would have to realy think about it.

    RSCN8705 (2).JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2019
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  19. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    I
    see an issue... it is the way I was approached that got me going. I would also like to state that it was a very hot dry September... Kudu loos their hair fast and easy when it’s hot and they are in not the fattest time of the year. This differs from animal to animal. I have never turned my head. I would like to look the client in the eye and talk to him regarding. Lots of other BS was flung and I just want it all cleared out.
     

  20. Neil Barnard

    Neil Barnard AH Member

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    I was going to be bad mouthed regardless.
     

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