Solid before soft point

[Miletic]

Much safer than trying to shoot cape buffalo in the head with your first shot......

“I saw it on YouTube”

 

[fourfive8]

Daga boy is approaching me at high speed.
I raise the carbine and shoot.
One bullet after another.
This is a situation I have thought about many times. I wonder if it is better that in say 416 rigby the first bullet is solid and the second soft? In which order do you who have had such situations put the bullets in the barrel? Thank you

That scenario is so unlikely that it’s not worth the worry. The implication is that you’re strolling through the bush in Africa where buffalo live and one decides to charge for no reason??? More the stuff of imagination or nightmares than reality. The more common scenario would be where you shoot a controlled, carefully aimed shot into a buffalo at an angle you decide upon. THEN the buffalo runs in some direction away from you, perpendicular to you or at you. At that point you start shooting at a moving buffalo from unpredictable and poor angles trying to get a bullet into vitals. Then is when well designed, tough solids are called for.

The post about “no conversations needed for any bullet other than TSX for buffalo” is blowing smoke up somewhere. Over the last 20-30 years great advances have been made in bullet design/tech and availability. But there remains a significant difference in design and use between softs and solids. The TSX is a good bullet but it is still an expanding soft. Also, if it were the do-all bullet as claimed, it would be the only bullet used or carried by all PHs…. Anecdotal, but nonetheless worth consideration.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I suspect it would be the only bullet carried by a great number of PHs, if elephants weren’t in the area. I know this is true of several prominent PHs that you’ve heard of.

 

[Longwalker]

"I think a good compromise would be the north fork cup point solid…" Me too. I've only shot one CPS at a buffalo, but it did its job exactly as I hoped. Hit hard, visible reaction to the shot, penetrated very deeply, expanded to a wider diameter, good wound channel, and retained all weight.

 

[Vinootz]

I made a comment above and had typo . But I think u goer the point. Solid(monolithic /homogenous) “or”tough like Aframe. I got to check before I hit post reply. Lol

 

[DLSJR]

With a .458 on buffalo, most PHs these days are saying to use an A-Frame or TSX and no solids needed. I don’t know if they recommend the same with a .416 or not?

I’ve been told by several PH’s that a Bearclaw followed by TSX’s are plenty in my .416. That’s generally how I load mine. The only time I’ve been asked to have solids in my .416 was on a dry land hippo.

 

[PeteG]

I’ve been told by several PH’s that a Bearclaw followed by TSX’s are plenty in my .416. That’s generally how I load mine. The only time I’ve been asked to have solids in my .416 was on a dry land hippo.

If you're using bearclaw's, no need to follow up with a tsx.
same for tsx, if thats whats loaded up, fill the magazine.

416's are a fantastic penetrating caliber. ive used mine on several hippo.
dry land hippo - solid (at 15m)
in water on on the sand next to the river - softs and with great penetration frontal and side on body shots as well as head shots.

i use bearclaws and rhino's in my 458lott for backup work when im not loaded with sledgehammer solids.

 

[Green Chile]

I didn't read any of the 5 pages of answers. Solids are not needed or wanted on buffalo. That's old school bullet technology. Bullet technology for years now has been about bonded bullets or X style bullets. It's very easy to get exits with the premium expanding bullets today. Put a 400gr .416 TSX on the biggest buff shoulders and you will get an exit. That's fine unless you have animals behind him. I've put a .416 TSX almost length-wise through a very large bodied eland, including the stomach. Solids are only needed for thick skinned DG...elephant, rhino and body shots on hippo.

Solids on buffalo can also get you hammered. Just listen to Alan Shearing's story about how well placed follow-up shots on a buffalo with solids almost got him killed. He's convinced that softs would have had an entirely different outcome.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I am no expert by any means, but after 4 buff bulls, 5 cow buff, all my PH's have always said.
If you are shooting your 458 Lott loaded with Aframes thats all you need, no need for solids.

 

[Brian]

For cape buffalo.

The situation may change in heartbeat but I usually plan for an expanding bullet first, I usually shoot a single shot .500 or a .577. and always with the best bullets on the market. I seldom need a second shot.

Not all solids are the same. Investigate CEB Safari Solid bullets., In some situations a solid is the best bullet for the first shot. (Brush or angle of the shot.)
With a single shot it is quick and quiet to change the bullet in the chamber for the first shot.

Not all softs are the same, Check out the different NorthFork expanding bullets and the CEB Safari Raptors. Some of the NF expanding bullets are very stiff/ tough.

There are now a few highly rated new bullets on the market that I have heard about but never used.
Things are changing the Dangerous Game Bullet scene, for the better.

Think about the advantages of using a 458 or bigger. Those true big bores really bring the best out in a quality bullet. Happy hunting .

 

[Surgeon1]

I've exclusively used a Double (470NE or 450-400) on buffalo since 2021. I use only Swift A-frames and
have had stellar results on no less than 10 buffalo including 3 last month in Uganda. About 50% on bullet recovery especially with the 450-400 which consistently out penetrates the 470. Two quick shots out of a double with the first in the shoulder or double lung and second in the pelvis or what
ever shot presents itself. I carry 2-4 solids in my culling belt if there are any chances of elephants being an issue. I have shot all but one in the last 5 years closer than 40yds, several 25 or less. Shot a nice bull last year at 104y in the head (only shot that I had on the best bull in 10days) Bang, flop, dead.

I like to get in close, down wind, "when you can smell their breath you are close enough to kill them", Tracking solitary or small groups of Dagga Boys.

September for Tanzania for 2 back-to-back 10-day hunts which will allow up to 8 buffalo total. Goal for a long time has been a true really old Scrum Cap and if I ever achieve that I may be done hunting
African Buffalo. Getting in really close may end my hunting before getting a Scrum Cap does, it the risk I'll take.

 

[Brian]

Surgeon1,

Those A-Frames really work! You do it right, getting close with your doubles.
I enjoy hearing about it.

104 yds for a bang flop, good job! What cartridge was that?

Best of fortune on your scrub cap.

Brian

 

[Rafiki]

I would use Peregrine expanding copper bullets from start to finish or A-frame, tsx or TBBC. I would also be happy to follow up with solids.

Yes!

 

[Miletic]

I didn't read any of the 5 pages of answers. Solids are not needed or wanted on buffalo. That's old school bullet technology. Bullet technology for years now has been about bonded bullets or X style bullets. It's very easy to get exits with the premium expanding bullets today. Put a 400gr .416 TSX on the biggest buff shoulders and you will get an exit. That's fine unless you have animals behind him. I've put a .416 TSX almost length-wise through a very large bodied eland, including the stomach. Solids are only needed for thick skinned DG...elephant, rhino and body shots on hippo.

Solids on buffalo can also get you hammered. Just listen to Alan Shearing's story about how well placed follow-up shots on a buffalo with solids almost got him killed. He's convinced that softs would have had an entirely different outcome.

Taking into account that the daga boy weighs between 700 and 800 kg, for that reason I decided on a solid. I believe that he has a rather thick skin and it is not at all clear to me how bullets of such a wide diameter pass through the whole game and come out. Since I have no experience, I asked the question here. Several of you have confirmed to me that the solid is too hard and that in most cases it will come out of the body. This was confirmed to me by Hunter Habib and Mark Hunter. It has already happened to them. Also, you are trying to get out, so the best solution is a soft model, but bonded

 

[Miletic]

I've exclusively used a Double (470NE or 450-400) on buffalo since 2021. I use only Swift A-frames and
have had stellar results on no less than 10 buffalo including 3 last month in Uganda. About 50% on bullet recovery especially with the 450-400 which consistently out penetrates the 470. Two quick shots out of a double with the first in the shoulder or double lung and second in the pelvis or what
ever shot presents itself. I carry 2-4 solids in my culling belt if there are any chances of elephants being an issue. I have shot all but one in the last 5 years closer than 40yds, several 25 or less. Shot a nice bull last year at 104y in the head (only shot that I had on the best bull in 10days) Bang, flop, dead.

I like to get in close, down wind, "when you can smell their breath you are close enough to kill them", Tracking solitary or small groups of Dagga Boys.

September for Tanzania for 2 back-to-back 10-day hunts which will allow up to 8 buffalo total. Goal for a long time has been a true really old Scrum Cap and if I ever achieve that I may be done hunting
African Buffalo. Getting in really close may end my hunting before getting a Scrum Cap does, it the risk I'll take.

Do you have mechanical sights or an optical one with a double barrel?

 

[Brian]

Yes!

I have used Peregrine BushMaster bullet on about 9 cape buffalo in m .577NE. They are excellent. Need minimum 200 fps MV for good expansion. Brian

 

[Brian]

Taking into account that the daga boy weighs between 700 and 800 kg, for that reason I decided on a solid. I believe that he has a rather thick skin and it is not at all clear to me how bullets of such a wide diameter pass through the whole game and come out. Since I have no experience, I asked the question here. Several of you have confirmed to me that the solid is too hard and that in most cases it will come out of the body. This was confirmed to me by Hunter Habib and Mark Hunter. It has already happened to them. Also, you are trying to get out, so the best solution is a soft model, but bonded

Cutting Edge Safari Solid is definitely "New School".
Research it. Deep, straight penetration, Large permanent would channel, wide flat meplat, 13 deg. ogive, Completely different performance than traditional solids. Meat tissue cavitatingl around the side of the bullet, is a significant factor. Most people are still not up to speed on the new bullet designed and tested by Michael458. Lots of research info here on AH about it. All field and Lab proven research and facts. Tested on 100's of buffalo in Africa and Australia.

Also research the CEB Safari Talon. completely unconventional terminal ballistics. Tested, Proven.

 

[Miletic]

Cutting Edge Safari Solid is definitely "New School".
Research it. Deep, straight penetration, Large permanent would channel, wide flat meplat, 13 deg. ogive, Completely different performance than traditional solids. Meat tissue cavitatingl around the side of the bullet, is a significant factor. Most people are still not up to speed on the new bullet designed and tested by Michael458. Lots of research info here on AH about it. All field and Lab proven research and facts. Tested on 100's of buffalo in Africa and Australia.

Also research the CEB Safari Talon. completely unconventional terminal ballistics. Tested, Proven.

Thank you. I'm a fan of terminal ballistics. I like to test bullets. I do it both in the laboratory and in the field

 

[Brian]

Thank you. I'm a fan of terminal ballistics. I like to test bullets. I do it both in the laboratory and in the field

Awesome, You have my respect! I am a bullet nerd. " It is the only piece of my gear the touches the cape buffalo".

You might enjoy wading through "B&M Rifles and Cartridges" on the web there is lots there about the the development of the bullets. Also lots of other stuff about his work with rifles and cartridges.
I think that searching Michael458 on this AH forum will get you to lots of Michaels bullet work info. He is in South Carolina and is very approachable. ( He even puts up with me! )
Thanks for the post. Brian

 

[Miletic]

Awesome, You have my respect! I am a bullet nerd. " It is the only piece of my gear the touches the cape buffalo".

You might enjoy wading through "B&M Rifles and Cartridges" on the web there is lots there about the the development of the bullets. Also lots of other stuff about his work with rifles and cartridges.
I think that searching Michael458 on this AH forum will get you to lots of Michaels bullet work info. He is in South Carolina and is very approachable. ( He even puts up with me! )
Thanks for the post. Brian

Thanks Brian, I wish you many good bullets and hits in the future!