Soft or solid first?

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Kevin Peacocke, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. cagkt3

    cagkt3 AH ENABLER PLATINUM SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Could you expand on this point a little?
     

  2. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    @cagkt3

    Sure.

    The main problem with the left hand side is the rumen is situated on the left hand side of the body of a Cape buffalo. The right side has the small intestine and the very large liver just behind the diaphragm.

    The rumen is huge, about the same size as a 44 gallon oil drum. It is always full of whatever the buff has been grazing on, is always wet and with the consistency it has, it has the ability to stop any expanding bullet, no matter the caliber used. Your chances of getting a bullet through there are well just about 0. The only thing such a shot will accomplish is a bad tempered buffalo, with a bullet in the gut. No blood, to track and unless the buffalo breaks off from the rest of the group and decides to make a stand, chances are very good he may not be found.

    The right side is much easier and also has the huge liver which if a expanding bullet passes through it and then into the chest cavity(past the diaphragm) and into a lung, is a fatal shot.

    Yes, broadside shots are the ideal but unfortunately are not always presented. When having the opportunity at a quartering away shot, make sure it is the right side or rather decline the shot, no matter how long or tough the day has been. Once you pull the trigger you cannot stop the bullet, so make sure it is not the rumen of the buffalo that does.

    Full frontal shots also pose issues due to the tough skin but the issue is compounded in that the skin on the front of the chest is very thick but, it is loose and has a lot of give or movement when struck by a bullet. This also causes the bullet to expand sooner than on a side on shot for example. This thick loose skin can absorb a lot of the initial energy which in turn can seriously influence the performance of the bullet.

    Light faster bullets are effected more by this than heavy for caliber bullets.(.400's are better for full frontal shots than .375's although the .375's are more than adequate).

    Taking a full frontal shot on a large buffalo bull with a 375 H&H with a expanding 270 gr bullet @ 2700 or 300 gr bullet @ 2500+ fps are marginal for use on full frontal shots. The heavy 350 gr or 380 gr bullets @ 2200-2300 fps are much better for frontal shots. Are they absolutely essential for buffalo hunting? No, but it is good to be aware of this. They offer better momentum and can over come this effect better than lighter faster bullets. Full frontal shots need to be centered exactly in the middle to be the most effective. Pulled either left or right or even too low, could spell serious trouble if the bullet fails to reach the chest cavity and slips between the rib cage and the front leg. If placed too high it needs to be of good construction in order to penetrate and shatter the neck vertebrae which will drop the buffalo on the spot.

    Yes the .400 are better and the .458's even more so and the .500 well of course, but the 375 H&H is more than adequate for hunting buffalo, just be aware of the issues, use appropriate bullets and make sure of your shot placement.

    No matter how tough it is sometimes to let it walk away, rather do that and hunt another day than try a initial marginal shot, that you may come to regret.

    I hope that helps clear it up.
     

  3. Eric Anderson

    Eric Anderson AH Enthusiast

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    D02C00FD-AD0E-4E6A-BC1F-65F9DFE665F4.jpeg Only shot one buffalo. It was with a .375 Ruger handloaded with Barnes tsx for first two shots, then a spinal shot with a cutting edge brass solid. (His tail twitched, I think, I wasn’t taking chances 10 yards away.)
    First shot was a dead on frontal shot. I hit him right where his neck joined his chest, 1.5 inches to the right as he faced me)
    Broke his windpipe, severed the carotid arteries on that side, went through the top of his heart, and the bullet went right through him, coming to rest against the hide on his back left ham.
    He went to his knees, and turned away to run, I shot him again, right behind his last rear rib as he was extremely quartering away by the time I cycled the bolt. He went down again, and the rest of the herd came thundering out of the brush to see what is going on. Spincter tightening moment for sure... after the ph and tracker scared the herd away, we were wall king up when his tail twitched. The Ph had barely time enough to open his mouth when I spine shot him again. This was this summer when a PH had just died from a buffalo. I wasn’t going to get gored with rounds in my rifle.

    The first shot as I said penetrated almost stem to stern. The second was a bad shot that got trapped in the Rumen. The cutting edge brass solid shattered his spine, and went out into the Bush after breaking his sternum into a bunch of pieces.

    So that is a long story about how my .375 bullets did against a specific buffalo, out of a 20” barrel with a .375 Ruger.
    FA38CE67-7687-47E0-92A1-5EA14BA3A32F.jpeg E5C4CA72-EB89-406F-B191-FB1CAD3404AD.jpeg 74F35AFE-CDAD-4AEA-88C3-C63B4168F797.jpeg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2018

  4. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Fanatic

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    Yep, shooting a solid first to purposefully clear a path for a soft as a law enforcement shooting theory has a lot of hokie pokie rogue instructor opinion smell to it! There may be some instances where large, penetrating rounds could be used in tactical warfare to open up a barrier or barricade for other, follow-up purposes, but in a law enforcement or hunting context for stopping people or killing animals with small arms ???- IMO pure BS
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  5. cagkt3

    cagkt3 AH ENABLER PLATINUM SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Great info, thank you sir!
     
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  6. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    Most Tier 1 JSOC guys are solid ISPC B class equivalent pistol shooters... They are very good.. but generally speaking they are far from as fast or as accurate as most nationally ranked competitive shooters... they have a multitude of skills they have to keep honed.. shooting is only one of them.. so, while they put a ton of lead downrange every year compared to conventional units, cops, etc.. it is a rare exception when you find a guy assigned to DEVGRU, CAG, FBI HRT, etc.. that can shoot at anywhere close to the same skill level as any of the top 100 ISPC or 3-Gun folk out there..

    That said.. I seriously doubt Jerry Miculek or Rob Leatham (two of the best handgun shooters ever) even in their prime, could consistently put a controlled pair into a 2" circle under true combat conditions (high stress, bad guy moving, good guy moving, bad guy shooting back at the good guy, potential for other good guys in the immediate area, all sorts of obstacles, trip hazards, and other assorted crap like couches, chairs, floor lamps, and passed out crack heads between the good guy and the bad guy, etc..etc..) consistently with one of their $5K custom built, hand fitted, race guns...

    There is certainly no way in hell your average street cop makes that shot with his service issued 1980's-1990's era S&W semi auto or Gen 1 glock (the time period when most LEO's were transitioning from revolvers to semi's) with any consistency at all.. No matter who is training him to do it.. or how much he trains for it..

    Doing hammer drills in training, etc.. for the purpose of putting 2 shots as rapidly as possible into the A zone of an IDPA type target is absolutely a standard many reach for..

    But the belief that the average beat cop is going to put 2 rounds directly on top of each other on a human target in an active gunfight.. and that this is an effective technique for clearing out clothing, etc.. is totally invalid..
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  7. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Fanatic

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    Kevin... please come down to Cleveland pistol club ( Harare shooting sport complex) and talk to us on a Saturday afternoon... there's a couple of hundred years of collective experience to tap into there.
     
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  8. Bruce

    Bruce AH Elite

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    It's all been said.. I agree that PREMIUM expanding shifts are the right choice.
    My buff taken with 375H&H Magnum were all with Swift A Frame 300gr as the first shot.. then I had another A frame soft below that followed by 3 Federal solids also in 300gr.
    I now only load up A Frame softs in both 375 and my 458 calibres. As IvW Said...HAVE premium solids handy in magazine pouches.. you never know!
    I am also available to assist you with getting premium ammo down here in RSA if you get down here sometime.
     
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  9. TERMINATOR

    TERMINATOR AH Enthusiast

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    Anybody here ever used the Trophy Bonded Bearclaw on a Cape Buffalo? It is my favorite "tough" expanding bullet. Not the new "Tipped" ones but the original
     

  10. TERMINATOR

    TERMINATOR AH Enthusiast

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    Why???
     

  11. Ryan

    Ryan AH Fanatic

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    Go up to his reply, #22 on this thread.
     

  12. TERMINATOR

    TERMINATOR AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks I missed that.
     
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  13. buffybr

    buffybr AH Enthusiast

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    Just load your .375 with 270 or 300 grain Barnes TSXs, whichever shoots best in your rifle, and go shoot your Buff.
     

  14. DWB

    DWB AH Veteran

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    @ Eric Anderson
    Had to smile when I saw your photo with George. One of the best trackers in the business. Hunted buff with him many times, again in January of this year.

    He is better than a bloodhound!
     

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