So, I Was In The Loading Room Today...

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by tarbe, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    So I was in the loading room tonight, putting together some test loads in the 450/400 (400gr A-Frame) and also some plinkers for the 458 Lott (500gr TSX).

    It is pretty amazing how different the charge weights were in these two cartridges, using different powders geared to the expansion ratios and pressure limitations of these two very different cartridges.

    The 450/400 400gr loads were using 94 grains of powder for 2,250 fps while the 458 Lott 500gr loads were using 68 grains of powder for 2,100 fps.

    As you might suspect, their was a pretty significant difference in burning rate between these two powders!
     
    CAustin, Pheroze and Bullthrower338 like this.

  2. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,365
    Video/Photo:
    51
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Location:
    Ontario
    Member of:
    OFAH, DSC
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Canada, USA
    The belted magnum variants seem to also make efficient use of powder. If memory serves me, the 416 RM uses less powder than Rigby to achieve the same velocity.
     

  3. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Yes,a fair bit less powder.

    Between the expansion ratio (case capacity vs bore capacity) and pressure differences, the Remington uses less, of a faster powder, to achieve the same velocity.
     

  4. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,365
    Video/Photo:
    51
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Location:
    Ontario
    Member of:
    OFAH, DSC
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Canada, USA
    But, I am quite amazed that the 450/400 uses so much powder. Interesting
     

  5. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,836
    Video/Photo:
    121
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Member of:
    NRA, NA Hunt Club
    Hunted:
    Tanzania, Botswana, Zimbabwe (2), Namibia (2), South Africa (2)
    Of course, smaller case. Compare the .308 to the '06, same thing. Not magic. The belt has nothing do to with it, its simply there as a headspace method, nothing else.
     

  6. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,365
    Video/Photo:
    51
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Location:
    Ontario
    Member of:
    OFAH, DSC
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Canada, USA
    I know it's not the belt. It's just the overall design. I just hadn't really turned my mind to its efficiency. The 400 H&H will also send that same bullet at 200 fps faster with 20 grains less than the 450/400. That's something more than 308 and 3006 comparison I think.

    People always mention the belt, good/bad blah blah, but not much is said about the efficiency. Just interesting is all.
     

  7. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,836
    Video/Photo:
    121
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Member of:
    NRA, NA Hunt Club
    Hunted:
    Tanzania, Botswana, Zimbabwe (2), Namibia (2), South Africa (2)
    I know little of the .400 H&H other than what it is, or what it will do. I would be skeptical that it can do as stated. But if so, the only reason would be loading it to max with a smaller capacity, than the other, and not loading IT to max. There aint no free lunch.;) If capacities are nearly the same, loaded to their full potential, velocities will be about the same. The .308-'06 comparison is valid because with any given bullet weight the .30-06 can drive it about 200 fps faster, again with max loads for both. In factory guise one might say the .308 is more efficient as it comes close to factory '06, but loaded to full pressure and ability, no. But the magnums, not sure what you mean by efficient. Most are anything but. Efficient rounds are the ones that do the most with the least, and that doesn't usually apply to magnum rounds. Again, the belt lends nothing to the equation, its simply a means to headspace, no more no less. And yes it is interesting.(y)(y)
     
    Pheroze likes this.

  8. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,365
    Video/Photo:
    51
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Location:
    Ontario
    Member of:
    OFAH, DSC
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Canada, USA
    In case you are interested I received these from Cutting Edge Bullets - Max loads shown. Use at your own risk. For 400 gr Cutting Edge Safari Solid

    20190225_232137.jpg

    Not sure why its sideways.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2019

  9. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,836
    Video/Photo:
    121
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Member of:
    NRA, NA Hunt Club
    Hunted:
    Tanzania, Botswana, Zimbabwe (2), Namibia (2), South Africa (2)
    Its an interesting round. I thought about having one made up, but never got to it. Have no real need of it. Thanks.
     

  10. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    As long as we are talking about contrasts in the loading room....

    IMG_0459.jpg
     
    Royal27, CAustin and Bullthrower338 like this.

  11. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,365
    Video/Photo:
    51
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Location:
    Ontario
    Member of:
    OFAH, DSC
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Canada, USA
    Awe, the little guy is so cute
     

  12. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    So, I needed a little therapy after work today...and my therapy cat was at the vet for a tune-up...so I decided to get some loading room therapy. ;)

    I have a batch of older WW 45-70 cases that have been loaded enough times that I am now going to relegate them to trapdoor-level loads.

    I wanted to load some 350gr Berry's plated with 30 grains of SR4759.

    Looking at the powder inventory, I saw I had a brand new 8 pound jug, and an old metal 8 oz can with about 4 oz in it.

    The can is from 1995! :eek:

    So, I decided to load some up with new stuff, and some with old stuff. I will chronograph the loads to see what sort of variation I might get from two different lots, separated by 24 years!

    So here is a contest...I will chronograph 5 rounds each from the new and old lots.

    Members guess how much difference there will be in the average velocity between the two lots. PM your answer to me...don't post it here or people will be able to bracket themselves to increase their chances.

    Winner will get bragging rights as the official AH Velocity Savant. And a genuine green onyx carved Rhino from South Africa.
    IMG_0470.jpg

    I will announce the winner after I manage to get out to the range (but not before 4/1). In the event of a tie, I will have my wife randomly select a winner (somehow).

    Start guessing....but only one guess per member and be sure to PM it to me!


    Tim
     
    Tra3 and Pheroze like this.

  13. Bullthrower338

    Bullthrower338 AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,845
    Video/Photo:
    144
    Likes Received:
    7,800
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Member of:
    Life Member Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, NRA, Huntin' Fool, DSC and Pope and Young Club
    Hunted:
    USA, Mexico, Canada, RSA, Australia NT, Zimbabwe
    If it’s a really sunny day and the screens are just right I guess a standard deviation of 3229 FPS! Lol
     
    Royal27 and tarbe like this.

  14. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Gotta love those "magic" loads!
     
    Bullthrower338 likes this.

  15. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    6,207
    Video/Photo:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    8,417
    Location:
    Texas
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member, DSC Life Member, SCI Life Member, Exotic Wildlife Association, Texas Taxidermy Association Life Member, National Taxidermy Association, TTHA,DUCKS UNLIMITED
    Hunted:
    Romania, South Africa- Kalahari , Eastern Cape, USA, Fished Brazil, Mexico, USA
    So in my new building I have a dedicated reloading room :E Dancing:haven’t had time to get it all set up yet but it’s air conditioned and heated and a whole room just for reloading!!!!!
     
    Ridgewalker, Rob404, tarbe and 2 others like this.

  16. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    You are on your way to enlightenment, Grasshopper!
     
    gizmo likes this.

  17. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,592
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,683
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    Is "Grasshopper" really gizmo's nickname?
     

  18. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    It is now! :LOL:
     

  19. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,660
    Video/Photo:
    85
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Oh - and if two guys guess 50fps, but only one indicates which lot is which, then obviously it behooves you to indicate the relative positions of the new and old lots. :D Unless you guess wrong!
     

  20. gizmo

    gizmo AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    6,207
    Video/Photo:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    8,417
    Location:
    Texas
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member, DSC Life Member, SCI Life Member, Exotic Wildlife Association, Texas Taxidermy Association Life Member, National Taxidermy Association, TTHA,DUCKS UNLIMITED
    Hunted:
    Romania, South Africa- Kalahari , Eastern Cape, USA, Fished Brazil, Mexico, USA

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice