SCREWS BOLTS & Co

[ofbiro]

I am wondering why several manufacturers continue to use traditional screws (I am designed for a normal screwdriver) instead of Allen or Torx.
The latter two are much better suitable to tightening with a torque wrench and, moreover, are less prone to damages.
I realize that action screws with the slots perfectly aligned between them and parallel to the barrel ax look "smart", but I deem technology is more importat than aesthetics. Am I a philistine?

 

[BeeMaa]

Many times the slot in the screw is used as an indicator to see if the bolt has loosened. On high quality firearms all the slots will be front to back and will give quick reassurance that all the fasteners are properly tightened/torqued.

Still possible with a Torx or Allen but there would have to be marks made on the head of the screw for this purpose.

It also gives me a reason to have all those different slotted screwdrivers, but that's another story.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Slotted screws look so good on a double rifle, a hex or some such would just not cut the cake.

 

[BeeMaa]

Thank you @Kevin Peacocke - Aesthetics. I'm always thinking about the engineering and not so much how it looks, but you are very right. This picture would not be the same with Torx or Allen fasteners.

 

[BourbonTrail]

I am wondering why several manufacturers continue to use traditional screws (I am designed for a normal screwdriver) instead of Allen or Torx.
The latter two are much better suitable to tightening with a torque wrench and, moreover, are less prone to damages.
I realize that action screws with the slots perfectly aligned between them and parallel to the barrel ax look "smart", but I deem technology is more importat than aesthetics. Am I a philistine?

Philistine!!

I believe it’s 3 fold:
- Visual Aesthetics
- Field Serviceability (many carry a leatherman or Swiss Army knife , but not allen or torx bits)
- Procurement ( it’s cheaper and easier to find large shoulder bolts required for rifles in slotted head configuration because of commonality)

I also think there could be something to @BeeMaa ‘s torque indicator

However you can find these bolts on modern sporting rifles.

 

[Luvthunt]

Function before form for me particularly when it sits in the safe or gun rack most of the time.

 

[Challer]

It depends on the style of the gun. I traditional wood/steel M98-like action looks so much better with slotted screws. My only issue with them is that aligned and properly torqued may be two different things.

Other guns, like the infamous R8, are largely an Allen Head/Torx proposition, and even in wood n steel flavors they seem right.

Other than very mass produced guns, threaded fasteners for guns are built to print rather than off the shelf.

On a different note, beware Chinese counterfeit fasteners on any application requiring graded bolts. It’s a huge problem.

 

[Longwalker]

I'd be happy with Torx everywhere but on the receiver of a double gun. On a double, tradition and aesthetics dictate slotted screw heads. On a bolt rifle, I actually prefer the look of Torx.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I have Allen head stainless steel action screws on my Winchester M70 375. They came from NECG. I like them more than the flat bit screws by far.

 

[fourfive8]

Agreed, only slotted and indexed/clocked for high end rifles including doubles. But I have changed out almost all my bolt guns to hex for utility/practicality. Torx would be comparable to hex. I use a Pelican 1700 and simply take down my bolt guns for travel. I made a simple hex driver and put it in the case for assembly & disassembly. Much easier than slotted screws. No matter how careful one is, it seems slot heads always get buggered- sooner of later.

 

[JimP]

One convince to having slotted screws is having to do a field repair unless you are packing the proper driver head with you

 

[fourfive8]

I'm having a hard time imagining the occasion of doing or needing an emergency action repair in the field? I've never experienced it, and also I've never experienced the straw man argument for needing a QR/QD scope mount for removing a damaged scope in the field. Could happen I guess but.....? Simply go back to camp to get proper tool or possibly the case is already in the vehicle. Here's a pic of the case where the action hex screw driver is kept all the time. I also have a similar small torx driver in my pack for removing a scope.... just in case. I guess the QR would take a few seconds to remove the scope and with a torx in my pack it would take a minute or less to remove scope. Either way, conditions for justifying an instant change would have likely passed... I think

 

[CoElkHunter]

I'm having a hard time imagining the occasion of doing or needing an emergency action repair in the field? I've never experienced it, and I've never experienced the straw man argument for needing a QR scope mount for removing a damaged scope in the field. Could happen I guess but.....? Simply go back to camp to get proper tool or possibly the case is already in the vehicle. Here's where the driver is kept all the time.

View attachment 503365

I would simply go back to camp and get the spare rifle I ALWAYS bring with me. Because, if a scope comes loose for some reason, you're done. No place in the mountains for sighting in a scope after the screws have been tightened up. My father in law had to borrow my rifle once after his scope came loose in the scabbard. Fortunately, I had taken a cow elk the day before.

 

[JimP]

I'm having a hard time imagining the occasion of doing or needing an emergency action repair in the field? I've never experienced it, and also I've never experienced the straw man argument for needing a QR/QD scope mount for removing a damaged scope in the field. Could happen I guess but.....? Simply go back to camp to get proper tool or possibly the case is already in the vehicle. Here's a pic of the case where the action hex screw driver is kept all the time. I also have a similar small torx driver in my pack for removing a scope.... just in case. I guess the QR would take a few seconds to remove the scope and with a torx in my pack it would take a minute or less to remove scope. Either way, conditions for justifying an instant change would have likely passed... I think

View attachment 503365

I know that it is a long shot in the dark of it happening but it does happen.

Years ago I had a trigger sear screw back off enough that I couldn't shoot a rifle. I had driver about 20 miles that day and had hiked in another 5 or 6 miles on a elk hunt. I had to drop down some ledges after watching a area so I took the shell out of the chamber and as I closed the bolt I pulled the trigger to release the spring tension, only nothing happened. I took that rifle apart using a Leatherman and fixed the situation. Later that evening I shot a nice elk. I wasn't about to hike back to my ATV and drive back to camp to get the tool box out.

 

[fourfive8]

Pictured- two small handmade drivers I have with rifle when traveling - hex for action screws, torx for scope. I carry the hex in my small pack to remove scope if needed. I have carried rifles and shotguns in the most rugged, inhospitable conditions, including horseback, for 59 years. I've dropped them into timberline boulder and scree fields, banged them hard against rocks, dropped them scope first into rocks, had horses hit trees with them, have fallen off horses while carrying them and have never had the occasion to do or even be able to do an actual field repair on one. I have had a couple get pretty banged up. I have never driven over one. If a repair were ever necessary, I think I would need more than a simple action screw driver to remove the action from the stock to fix the gun. If it were simply a broken scope... maybe the most likely part to get dinged, I'd just pull the torx driver out of the pack and remove the scope- maybe half a minute or so.... hoping I didn't have a decent shot at something at more than a 100 yards or so before I could address the issue back at camp. I take my rifles down for travel then re-assemble them after travel, making sure the action screws are indexed to the same position they were when sighting in. My actions are pillar bedded so I'm confident the action screw indexing ensures consistent before and after shot placement. So far that has proven to be the case after taking the customary shots to ensure zero after travel- Never has been any change in POI. Before travel and as a matter of course I make sure all the screws and mounts are tightened correctly and secured with loctite if needed. My guns are as reliable as they can be made or set up to be before travel or before going on hunting trips. I just can't imagine the circumstances for fixing one in the field or the urgent need to fix one because of some accident or a broken, critical part. I guess it could happen but it's something I don't worry about. Broken scopes and broken stocks come to mind as the most common possibilities.