Rook Rifles

[Red Leg]

Thanks to @rookhawk 's posting in classifieds of his lovely rook rifle and the discussion it generated, I thought it might be good to devote some discussion to these interesting little rifles that were so quickly eclipsed by rifles chambered in rounds like the 22 Savage HP, .22LR, and the flood of "varmint" rounds that began to appear in the thirties.

I have owned several over the years, and have retained two that I still occasionally shoot. Both are excellent for dealing with the occasional armadillo determined to excavate the shrubbery. When still in Northern VA, both accounted for the occasional ground hog attempting to undermine the 150 year old foundation of our barn.

This is my exquisite little 380 Rook by Stephen Grant. It was built on a miniature Martini-Henry style falling block action. Though not always interchangeable, because the rook used a heeled bullet and slightly shorter case, this particular rifle happily shoots 38 Long Colt ammunition. With my eyes, it is minute of armadillo accurate to forty or fifty yards. This rifle would have been built around 1890-1900.

This is my rook "stopping rifle." Plainer and clearly more extensively used, it was built around the same time as the Grant. I have not been able to identify anything about this maker, but the break open action with readily recognizable top lever is likely Westley Richards. The reason I have kept it is because of the chambering. It was built in "Winchester Caliber 44," or as we would now call it 44-40. I have never seen another in this chambering by any maker. It will decisively stop an enraged or wounded cottontail or armadillo.

 

[rookhawk]

@Altitude sickness Has a very similar Mortimer of Edinburg "round action" Rook like your second rifle @Red Leg . It is a trigger plate action of sorts...very Scottish. And yes, it has the Westley Richards style top lever rather than the more primitive top levers you'd expect on small guns and rifles.

 

[Altitude sickness]

@Red Leg Those are special little rifles that pictures don’t accurately show how diminutive they are.

I plan to take my Holland & Holland Rook rabbit hunting tomorrow. It’s been converted to .410

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Red Leg, those are beautiful rifles. I really like the .44WCF/.44-40, There is a lot of loading data for that ctg. Trail Boss is marvelous in the .44-40 as are a number of powders. You cannot double charge Trail Boss in a handgun cartridge and still seat a bullet.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Red Leg]

@Altitude sickness Has a very similar Mortimer of Edinburg "round action" Rook like your second rifle @Red Leg . It is a trigger plate action of sorts...very Scottish. And yes, it has the Westley Richards style top lever rather than the more primitive top levers you'd expect on small guns and rifles.

View attachment 741066View attachment 741065

The two are virtually identical though his is a much finer finish. Mine has a Birmingham address and the maker's name (you can blow up the photo above) is something like Subenburg ?!? I have never been able to find anything on him. Were it Suhl with a true trigger plate action, I could simply assume it was one of those makers lost in the aftermath of the war. Of course the WR top lever would then be inexplicable. A small mystery.

 

[Sarg]

@Altitude sickness Has a very similar Mortimer of Edinburg "round action" Rook like your second rifle @Red Leg . It is a trigger plate action of sorts...very Scottish. And yes, it has the Westley Richards style top lever rather than the more primitive top levers you'd expect on small guns and rifles.

View attachment 741066View attachment 741065

Those are some beautiful Rook rifles there for sure of Redlegs.
I only have Martini’s now, moved on my other types & never could afford a lovely Top Break, been close on a couple but sadly in Australia & New Zealand a lot have been converted to modern cartridges, some far too powerful for the action strength.

This will more than likely be build by Westley Richards, at the very least the action, then sold on as near all Lee Speed/Bsa Sporters we’re by BSA.
Than had a native restock or poor repair unfortunately by the looks of the photo?

 

[Adam S]

I will be following this thread with interest. With current prices as they are, this type is probably the only way I would obtain a rifle from some of these storied manufacturers. Also, these cartridges would be more practical for me hunting small game near home than, say a .470 (as amazing as those are).

Does anyone have any recommendations (books or online) for learning more about this type of rifle? Thanks!

 

[Altitude sickness]

Adam, you have landed on my firearm strategy. Own fine vintage shotguns and calibers that I can walk out my door and enjoy without even having to drive let alone fly somewhere.

As for the Rigby I just bought from Rookhawk. That is what I posted on his thread. Begging someone to buy it so I wouldn’t. I posted that these Rooks are a way to enjoy amazing old world craftsmanship on a blue collar paycheck.
if they are converted they aren’t as collectible. Buy much more practical.

I am taking my Holland & Holland Rook converted to .410 in England years ago, rabbit hunting today.

As to your question. There are videos on YouTube on “Garden Guns” and rook rifles

 

[Altitude sickness]

Adam S, This is pretty informative on Rooks

https://www.grayssportingjournal.com/rooked/#:~:text=A%20typical%20rook%20rifle%20is,own%20expert%20gunmakers%20in%20London.

 

[AZDAVE]

Gentelman You have some nice Rook rifles that you use and enjoy. At some point I am going to pick one up.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I took the Holland & Holland Rook converted to .410 for a stroll today to look for a rabbit. I missed 3 rabbits The snow covered a lot of the brush and I got only fleeting glimpses and one opportunity at each. And was behind each of them.

I got all the fun and excitement without having to clean one.

 

[GeorgeGibbs505]

This is a part express rifle and now part rook rifle. It was retailed by A&N and is chambered for 360 2 1/4”, but historically they also loaded them with a small charge of black powder and a round ball, as I did here . The frame is actually a rook frame and I thought it was rechambered, but it’s all original and not a larger one like some of the break actions were done on. 20 grs of 2 fg and a round ball does wonders. Squirrel today at 9 degrees out.

 

[zephyr]

RedLeg
Nigel Brown's British Gunmakers Volume Two on page 270 shows your 44-40 was made by C.H.Laubenburg & Co of 2 King Alfreds Pl B'ham 1885-1892
Sorry that was all that was published

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

I took the Holland & Holland Rook converted to .410 for a stroll today to look for a rabbit. I missed 3 rabbits The snow covered a lot of the brush and I got only fleeting glimpses and one opportunity at each. And was behind each of them.

I got all the fun and excitement without having to clean one. View attachment 741327View attachment 741328

Hammer time!

 

[ZG47]

Beau

Thanks to @rookhawk 's posting in classifieds of his lovely rook rifle and the discussion it generated, I thought it might be good to devote some discussion to these interesting little rifles that were so quickly eclipsed by rifles chambered in rounds like the 22 Savage HP, .22LR, and the flood of "varmint" rounds that began to appear in the thirties.

I have owned several over the years, and have retained two that I still occasionally shoot. Both are excellent for dealing with the occasional armadillo determined to excavate the shrubbery. When still in Northern VA, both accounted for the occasional ground hog attempting to undermine the 150 year old foundation of our barn.

This is my exquisite little 380 Rook by Stephen Grant. It was built on a miniature Martini-Henry style falling block action. Though not always interchangeable, because the rook used a heeled bullet and slightly shorter case, this particular rifle happily shoots 38 Long Colt ammunition. With my eyes, it is minute of armadillo accurate to forty or fifty yards. This rifle would have been built around 1890-1900.

View attachment 741043
View attachment 741044
View attachment 741045

This is my rook "stopping rifle." Plainer and clearly more extensively used, it was built around the same time as the Grant. I have not been able to identify anything about this maker, but the break open action with readily recognizable top lever is likely Westley Richards. The reason I have kept it is because of the chambering. It was built in "Winchester Caliber 44," or as we would now call it 44-40. I have never seen another in this chambering by any maker. It will decisively stop an enraged or wounded cottontail or armadillo.
View attachment 741054
View attachment 741060
View attachment 741062Beautiful rifles. Thank you @Red Leg for sharing. I am radioactively green with envy!

 

[Red Leg]

RedLeg
Nigel Brown's British Gunmakers Volume Two on page 270 shows your 44-40 was made by C.H.Laubenburg & Co of 2 King Alfreds Pl B'ham 1885-1892
Sorry that was all that was published

THANK YOU!! I have been trying to decipher the first two letters for years. Had not come up with “La”.

 

[zephyr]

THANK YOU!! I have been trying to decipher the first two letters for years. Had not come up with “La”.

Came from years of deciphering my fathers hand writing
Enjoy that lovely rifle...
Just picked up a 1885 Low Wall in 32-20 made 1899 at auction.. Sadly it is sitting in the 3 day dog house which is the waiting period in what is now the socialist state of Vermont ...Once home and after a good strip and clean action and bore I'll post some pics

 

[rookhawk]

THANK YOU!! I have been trying to decipher the first two letters for years. Had not come up with “La”.

@Red Leg I know you're a Bibliophile. Do you have Nigel Brown's 3 Volume "British Guns" set? In our decade plus of conversations, I think I've used my set at least a dozen times directly with you.

A.) It's huge, the most comprehensive shotgun books ever written.
B.) It has virtually every known ledger in it.
C.) When the ledgers are missing (E.g. Jeffery), it will list addresses and nomenclature so between proof marks and address, you can pinpoint the era within very small windows.
D.) In the appendices, it lists every obscure maker, their address, and their years of operation just like your Laubenburg.

The set was never cheap, I think when in-print I paid $300 on amazon. If you can find the trio for $500-$700 it will be the most useful shotgun books you'll ever own.

Cheers!

 

[Red Leg]

@Red Leg I know you're a Bibliophile. Do you have Nigel Brown's 3 Volume "British Guns" set? In our decade plus of conversations, I think I've used my set at least a dozen times directly with you.

A.) It's huge, the most comprehensive shotgun books ever written.
B.) It has virtually every known ledger in it.
C.) When the ledgers are missing (E.g. Jeffery), it will list addresses and nomenclature so between proof marks and address, you can pinpoint the era within very small windows.
D.) In the appendices, it lists every obscure maker, their address, and their years of operation just like your Laubenburg.

The set was never cheap, I think when in-print I paid $300 on amazon. If you can find the trio for $500-$700 it will be the most useful shotgun books you'll ever own.

Cheers!

I do indeed, purchasing the set in the UK some years ago and hand carried it back (went under the seat not in the overhead!). Unfortunately, I keep it and most of my gun related library next door while the desktop is in my office here in the main house. My problem with this rifle was that I was "seeing" Subenburg and not Laubenburg - lots of pages between L and S. Just "Groked" up a little on the company. Most interesting part was its partnership with William Field for quite a bit of the company's short existence, filing a joint patent that seems to incorporate the WR lever design.

 

[rookhawk]

I do indeed, purchasing the set in the UK some years ago and hand carried it back (went under the seat not in the overhead!). Unfortunately, I keep it and most of my gun related library next door while the desktop is in my office here in the main house. My problem with this rifle was that I was "seeing" Subenburg and not Laubenburg - lots of pages between L and S. Just "Groked" up a little on the company. Most interesting part was its partnership with William Field for quite a bit of the company's short existence, filing a joint patent that seems to incorporate the WR lever design.

Great find and I'm glad you have that set.

I have the same problem of materials in wrong places. My office is my library and where I keep my guns , my workshop is in another building where I do smithing work, restoration projects, and handloading. As Murphy's law dictates, whatever I need is always in the other location at a given moment.