Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

[rookhawk]

On this thread many times people have stated there is zero evidence for UAPs / UFOs or alien sentient life.

I've previously cited high ranking military officials, expert testimony to congress, and videos provided by the US military along with eyewitness testimony from naval pilots.

None of this was sufficient.

This week several well known pastors have confirmed US Intelligence called them to a meeting asking for them to prepare to address crisis of faith that will come from a pending disclosure of UAP/UFO files.

Religious leaders told 'prepare now' for Bible-changing UFO disclosure

Influential Christian leaders have claimed they were part of a shocking meeting with the US government as the world prepares to see the UFO files President Trump promised to release.

www.dailymail.com

 

[rookhawk]

Pete Hegseth just announced the Chaplain Corp of the US military will now wear their religious insignia, rather than their officer ranks on their uniforms. It is the Department of War's opinion that the rank of Chaplain should be the focus, rather than their military rank.

I think thats a bold, very proper move. The Chaplain Corp is coming back to its original purpose and the woke/secular humanist faction is being eradicated from the armed services.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

On this thread many times people have stated there is zero evidence for UAPs / UFOs or alien sentient life.

I've previously cited high ranking military officials, expert testimony to congress, and videos provided by the US military along with eyewitness testimony from naval pilots.

None of this was sufficient.

This week several well known pastors have confirmed US Intelligence called them to a meeting asking for them to prepare to address crisis of faith that will come from a pending disclosure of UAP/UFO files.

Religious leaders told 'prepare now' for Bible-changing UFO disclosure

Influential Christian leaders have claimed they were part of a shocking meeting with the US government as the world prepares to see the UFO files President Trump promised to release.

www.dailymail.com

The devil is a deceiver and he’s got a lot of fallen angels at his disposal. Can’t believe in the Bible and aliens. Whatever they announce will no doubt lead a lot of people astray

 

[mdwest]

The devil is a deceiver and he’s got a lot of fallen angels at his disposal. Can’t believe in the Bible and aliens. Whatever they announce will no doubt lead a lot of people astray

why not? (sincere question.. there might be a biblical reference Im unaware of?)

I guess the way Ive always thought about it is... the bible speaks to God creating the heavens and earth.. but it doesnt say the earth is the only place he ever created that has life or is the only place he will ever create that has life... so... "maybe"?

to be truthful, UFO's, aliens, etc isnt something Ive ever thought much about at all.. its never been of any real interest to me other than acknowledging it makes for some great TV and movies..

If other lifeforms outside of earth exist it wouldnt surprise me.. I believe with God, anything/everything is possible.. and He is certainly capable of things well beyond my imagination or capacity to fathom or undertand..

but at the same time, I suppose in the back of my mind Ive also thought whether or not we'll ever confirm/deny the existance of other lifeforms would likely not happen in my lifetime.. so it hasnt been anything Ive ever dwelled on much..

 

[Russ16]

The devil is a deceiver and he’s got a lot of fallen angels at his disposal. Can’t believe in the Bible and aliens. Whatever they announce will no doubt lead a lot of people astray

Why can’t you believe in the bible and aliens? I don’t know anywhere in it that says this is the only world he created.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Public service announcement the no trespassing signs on my properties now also cover extra terrestrial beings and they should expect the same treatment as any and all other trespassers.

Side bar: Is it racially insensitive to name barn cats after Chinese restaurants dishes ? The wife tells me Wonton and egg roll are not appropriate names for barn kittens.

 

[mdwest]

Side bar: Is it racially insensitive to name barn cats after Chinese restaurants dishes ? The wife tells me Wonton and egg roll are not appropriate names for barn kittens.

Perhaps... but not nearly as insensitive as a buddy of mine's barn cats..

theyre both black cats (one completely black.. the other predominantly black but with some small white patches)..

he caught them fighting in the barn a few years back.. and promptly re-named them

Blackie Chan and Bruce Leroy..

theyve kept those names ever since..

 

[Tanks]

Pete Hegseth just announced the Chaplain Corp of the US military will now wear their religious insignia, rather than their officer ranks on their uniforms. It is the Department of War's opinion that the rank of Chaplain should be the focus, rather than their military rank.

I think thats a bold, very proper move. The Chaplain Corp is coming back to its original purpose and the woke/secular humanist faction is being eradicated from the armed services.

So, they should not be saluted? How will people will know their rank then?

 

[Big_Easy]

Public service announcement the no trespassing signs on my properties now also cover extra terrestrial beings and they should expect the same treatment as any and all other trespassers.

Side bar: Is it racially insensitive to name barn cats after Chinese restaurants dishes ? The wife tells me Wonton and egg roll are not appropriate names for barn kittens.

Are they siamese cats?

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Are they siamese cats?

Little grey scamps mostly as long as they stay in the barn and out of my way I don’t ask too many questions if they wonder further a field they don’t live here long.

 

[Red Leg]

Pete Hegseth just announced the Chaplain Corp of the US military will now wear their religious insignia, rather than their officer ranks on their uniforms. It is the Department of War's opinion that the rank of Chaplain should be the focus, rather than their military rank.

I think thats a bold, very proper move. The Chaplain Corp is coming back to its original purpose and the woke/secular humanist faction is being eradicated from the armed services.

I think this is a terrible error on the part of the Hegseth, and have little doubt it will be swiftly reversed when his tenure finally ends. Chaplains have worn their rank, which they also earn through centralized selection boards, since 1914. Pershing did reverse that authorization from 1918 to 1926, but it was restored in 26 and has been the military's practice for the last one hundred years.

Secondly, military chaplains do a lot more than pray and breach sermons. They are assigned, without regard to religion or denomination (yes, we have other than Christian, and particularly other than protestant evangelical, chaplains), to battalions and above. They are, if any good - and most are, a commander's primary staff support for dealing with family issues in a unit. In those situations chaplains are supported by his or her faith and empowered by the authority of their rank.

None of this, for the last century, has the anything whatsoever to do with wokeism.

Finally, what do you think you mean by secular humanism? The armed forces of the United States are largely secular and certainly largely non-denominational. I think even someone with zero experience in the military would concede that it might be counter productive to have Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and Baptist battalions. Unit chaplains are expected to offer their counsel to all faiths and to those with none. For both the faithful and the agnostic, the chaplain provides and important moral compass.

Removing rank is either little more than performative nonsense or a truly thoughtless decision on the part of the SECDEF.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

why not? (sincere question.. there might be a biblical reference Im unaware of?)

I guess the way Ive always thought about it is... the bible speaks to God creating the heavens and earth.. but it doesnt say the earth is the only place he ever created that has life or is the only place he will ever create that has life... so... "maybe"?

to be truthful, UFO's, aliens, etc isnt something Ive ever thought much about at all.. its never been of any real interest to me other than acknowledging it makes for some great TV and movies..

If other lifeforms outside of earth exist it wouldnt surprise me.. I believe with God, anything/everything is possible.. and He is certainly capable of things well beyond my imagination or capacity to fathom or undertand..

but at the same time, I suppose in the back of my mind Ive also thought whether or not we'll ever confirm/deny the existance of other lifeforms would likely not happen in my lifetime.. so it hasnt been anything Ive ever dwelled on much..

Why can’t you believe in the bible and aliens? I don’t know anywhere in it that says this is the only world he created.

It is 100% true that you’ll not find any explicit statement in the Bible saying there are no aliens.

My argument is based on the silence of Scripture and the exclusivity of Scripture.

Silence as in the complete absence of anything of the sort and exclusivity in the sense that the Bible is the entire story of God and His relationship with man, no one else.

Some will say that’s thin. After all, absence of something does not disprove its existence. That’s fine. It’s my opinion but I think it’s the Scriptural way to look at it.

You have the entire story of creation of the entire universe at the beginning, the fall and redemption of man through a perfect sacrifice and then the end of all things. Culminating in a new heaven and a new earth in which God will dwell with His people. No mention of anything else.

If there were anyone else you think He would’ve mentioned it in His Word. All this stuff serves to deceive, confuse, distract and sow doubt. Nothing more.

The angles one could argue against mine are myriad so it’s hard to address them more specifically without them being brought up.

 

[Russ16]

It is 100% true that you’ll not find any explicit statement in the Bible saying there are no aliens.

My argument is based on the silence of Scripture and the exclusivity of Scripture.

Silence as in the complete absence of anything of the sort and exclusivity in the sense that the Bible is the entire story of God and His relationship with man, no one else.

Some will say that’s thin. After all, absence of something does not disprove its existence. That’s fine. It’s my opinion but I think it’s the Scriptural way to look at it.

You have the entire story of creation of the entire universe at the beginning, the fall and redemption of man through a perfect sacrifice and then the end of all things. Culminating in a new heaven and a new earth in which God will dwell with His people. No mention of anything else.

If there were anyone else you think He would’ve mentioned it in His Word. All this stuff serves to deceive, confuse, distract and sow doubt. Nothing more.

The angles one could argue against mine are myriad so it’s hard to address them more specifically without them being brought up.

I don’t necessarily agree that god reveals all in the scripture. It never says that he does. I agree the entire scripture is the story of his relationship with man. It doesn’t anywhere imply that it is the entire story of his relationship with the universe.

God doesn’t reveal the existence of gravity in the scripture or any number of scientific principles, or every species on earth by name. These are mysteries left for man to discover. And in that discovery deepen our knowledge of his greatness as the creator. It is quite possible that he has additional mysteries for us to discover beyond our planet, including other species of his creation.

So I don’t believe that it is impossible to believe in both the bible and life beyond earth. So long as you believe in a single creator for life on and off our planet.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I don’t necessarily agree that god reveals all in the scripture. It never says that he does. I agree the entire scripture is the story of his relationship with man. It doesn’t anywhere imply that it is the entire story of his relationship with the universe.

God doesn’t reveal the existence of gravity in the scripture or any number of scientific principles, or every species on earth by name. These are mysteries left for man to discover. And in that discovery deepen our knowledge of his greatness as the creator. It is quite possible that he has additional mysteries for us to discover beyond our planet, including other species of his creation.

So I don’t believe that it is impossible to believe in both the bible and life beyond earth. So long as you believe in a single creator for life on and off our planet.

Basically your argument is “He hit the high points relative to us” I guess? That’s very true in many ways and I don’t disagree to an extent. Though the Bible IS the entire timeline of the universe, from creation to the end.. But on the topic of aliens? I don’t think so at all.. if you’re talking soulless creatures/organisms/plants etc.. plausible but extremely doubtful.

Also, I didn’t say He reveals every single thing in Scripture.. I do however believe that He would’ve mentioned something as major as civilizations on other planets ESPECIALLY if those beings had eternal souls….

 

[SaintPanzer]

I think this is a terrible error on the part of the Hegseth, and have little doubt it will be swiftly reversed when his tenure finally ends. Chaplains have worn their rank, which they also earn through centralized selection boards, since 1914. Pershing did reverse that authorization from 1918 to 1926, but it was restored in 26 and has been the military's practice for the last one hundred years.

Secondly, military chaplains do a lot more than pray and breach sermons. They are assigned, without regard to religion or denomination (yes, we have other than Christian, and particularly other than protestant evangelical, chaplains), to battalions and above. They are, if any good - and most are, a commander's primary staff support for dealing with family issues in a unit. In those situations chaplains are supported by his or her faith and empowered by the authority of their rank.

None of this, for the last century, has the anything whatsoever to do with wokeism.

Finally, what do you think you mean by secular humanism? The armed forces of the United States are largely secular and certainly largely non-denominational. I think even someone with zero experience in the military would concede that it might be counter productive to have Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and Baptist battalions. Unit chaplains are expected to offer their counsel to all faiths and to those with none. For both the faithful and the agnostic, the chaplain provides and important moral compass.

Removing rank is either little more than performative nonsense or a truly thoughtless decision on the part of the SECDEF.

Yes, and...

To answer Tanks' question: a Chaplain, by definition is commissioned, and therefore a Chaplain's insignia by itself would be how you would know.

Red Leg is not incorrect, but for a complete answer, we'd need more information. Specifically, on which uniforms?

What I mean is: Naval Chaplains, as an example, like doctors and nurses and Medical Service Corps (Twigs) types wear their rank insignia on one collar point, and their branch (Medical Corps, Nurse Corps, Chaplain Corps, Medical Service Corps) insignia on the other. So you know both what they do as well as where they are in the hierarchy.

Now, where I need more information relates to Army fatigue uniforms, and whether the Secretary was being specific to those, or if he literally means all services, all uniforms. The reason I bring this up is today's Army places rank insignia in one place, on the chest of the fatigues. If he means to have the Chaplain insignia there, instead of rank, then I would have to agree that makes sense, as there should be no confusion as to function. But if he means strip all rank insignia, in all branches, completely, well then I'd have to admit Red Leg has the more valid point.

So I'd really like to see the source document on this one.

 

[spike.t]

New bridge linking allies North Korea and Russia nearly complete

The road crossing is the latest sign of the deepening relationship between Pyongyang and Moscow.

www.bbc.com

 

[Russ16]

Basically your argument is “He hit the high points relative to us” I guess? That’s very true in many ways and I don’t disagree to an extent. Though the Bible IS the entire timeline of the universe, from creation to the end.. But on the topic of aliens? I don’t think so at all.. if you’re talking soulless creatures/organisms/plants etc.. plausible but extremely doubtful.

Also, I didn’t say He reveals every single thing in Scripture.. I do however believe that He would’ve mentioned something as major as civilizations on other planets ESPECIALLY if those beings had eternal souls….

I’m not assuming they have souls.

I also believe that there are a great many things he doesn’t reveal to us. It is his prerogative to reveal as much or as little as he chooses. Only upon our entry to heaven will all be revealed.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I’m not assuming they have souls.

I also believe that there are a great many things he doesn’t reveal to us. It is his prerogative to reveal as much or as little as he chooses. Only upon our entry to heaven will all be revealed.

I don’t disagree on the revealing part.

Even if they don’t have souls it doesn’t make sense. If they are soulless humanoids then they would be similar to angels and angels have no need for things like natural resources or transportation.

People are saying there are aliens and they have the ability to travel via vehicles of some kind through space. So kind of odd that they would be like us in that manner but be soulless. And if they did have souls then that would be an insurmountable problem.

God sent His Son because he loved the world. In the end there will be a new heaven and a new earth (where God will one day dwell with His people). Singular. There is no allowance for any other worlds or “earths”.

This is all there is folks. We are the only ones God made in His image.

 

[Russ16]

I don’t disagree on the revealing part. Even if they don’t have souls it doesn’t make sense. If they are soulless humanoids then they would be similar to angels and angels have no need for things like natural resources or transportation.

People are saying there are aliens and they have the ability to travel via vehicles of some kind through space. So kind of odd that they would be like us in that manner but be soulless. And if they did have souls then that would be an insurmountable problem.

God sent His Son because he loved the world. In the end there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Singular. This is all there is folks. We are the only ones God made in His image.

I agree with what you said we are the only ones made in his image. But I think he could have made all kinds of creatures in other images. I don’t assume aliens are humanoid. Inalso don’t assume they have souls. They may have some great technical capability but not be sentient in the way humans are.

I come down on the side of believing that gif very well have created creatures and dynamics on other planets that are far beyond our understanding. And that he did so for whatever purpose suits him.

So I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying about God. I think I just have a much larger list of pontential variance in what life form other planets might be. It doesn’t have to have a soul or be in gods image for him to have created it and it to exist.

 

[Red Leg]

Yes, and...

To answer Tanks' question: a Chaplain, by definition is commissioned, and therefore a Chaplain's insignia by itself would be how you would know.

Red Leg is not incorrect, but for a complete answer, we'd need more information. Specifically, on which uniforms?

What I mean is: Naval Chaplains, as an example, like doctors and nurses and Medical Service Corps (Twigs) types wear their rank insignia on one collar point, and their branch (Medical Corps, Nurse Corps, Chaplain Corps, Medical Service Corps) insignia on the other. So you know both what they do as well as where they are in the hierarchy.

Now, where I need more information relates to Army fatigue uniforms, and whether the Secretary was being specific to those, or if he literally means all services, all uniforms. The reason I bring this up is today's Army places rank insignia in one place, on the chest of the fatigues. If he means to have the Chaplain insignia there, instead of rank, then I would have to agree that makes sense, as there should be no confusion as to function. But if he means strip all rank insignia, in all branches, completely, well then I'd have to admit Red Leg has the more valid point.

So I'd really like to see the source document on this one.

Fair point. The new regulation replaces the rank insignia on the Army ACU/OCP uniform. Previously, with respect to the Army, the chaplain's insignia (the only branch that did so) was worn above the name strip. On the patrol cap, the chaplain's insignia was worn instead of the rank. So, on the ACU uniform, the rank is removed from the center tab and replaced with the chaplain's insignia. That strikes me as much ado about nothing, except that is does subtly undermine his authority when performing duties other than preaching and praying which represents 80% of his duty expectations in garrison where the ACU is the daily work uniform. I hasten to add that I have no direct personal experience how chaplain's are utilized in the Navy.

I too have not seen the new service specific regulations, but both grok and google indicate that rank will be removed from all uniforms - which, if true, would tend to make a rather ridiculous looking class A uniform.

The tradition, in the Army at least, has been to address a chaplain as "chaplain" rather than by rank, but to render military courtesies appropriate to the rank of the officer. In other words as a LTC commanding a battalion I would refer to both my battalion chaplain, typically a captain, and the division chaplain, typically a colonel, as "chaplain," but I would render a salute to the O6.

Perhaps we are creating a religious commissariat.