Realistic level of accuracy from doubles?

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by Ukstalker.375, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. Ukstalker.375

    Ukstalker.375 AH Member

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    Ok everyone, so I've recently taken ownership of a very little used chapuis side by side in .375h&h, I took it to the range today to see how it shot and at the regulated distance of 60m (but not with the now discontinued ammo the rifle was regulated with) and I got a group after 20 or so rounds about 6-8 inches in diameter.....
    I know when they leave the factory they should shoot a 2 inch group, but how does that compare? The chap at the range said anything upto a foot was average???? That can't be acceptable surely? I appreciate it's never going to cloverleaf or be a long range gun but interested in other people's views?
    I'd be the first to admit I know after a while I was flinching, although that's as much to do with this being an underground single tunnel range where the physical wall of sound/pressure etc is quite over bearing and pretty hard to ignore! I don't tend to have that issue in field conditions.
    So, what's "normal", I will of course try some different brands of ammo in due course but supplies in the uk are slim!!
     

  2. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    What I know about doubles could be doubled up or more and still fit on the end of a pin. But knowing just a bit about the regulation process, I can't see how you could expect anything approaching the accuracy from new ammo in comparison to what it was regulated with. If you happened to get the same/comparable accuracy with different ammo, that would just be by luck from what I understand.

    I'm guessing you're going to need to develop a custom load for the rifle to obtain acceptable accuracy, which currently I'd agree you don't have.

    Hopefully there will be others who know more about DRs come along to help you..... @AZDAVE. @matt85, @cal pappas would be a few I'd think could help.
     

  3. PeteG

    PeteG AH Elite

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    I think the range guy is a bit off on his comment.
    Without the regulated load there is not much chance of a respectable grouping.
    As Phil says, you may get lucky from time to time, unfortunately it does not look as though you got lucky with the ammo.
    try ask what the rifle was regulated with originally.
     
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  4. Ukstalker.375

    Ukstalker.375 AH Member

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    I was told it was regulated with RWS 299gr cone point, which they have since discontinued unfortunately! I have found someone with two boxes of old stock which I will snap up, but 40 rounds isnt going to go very far!
    I can only hope that the replacement/alternative that RWS now make might be so similar as to not matter but time will tell.
    Ive got some different federal 300gr on order to ty them too, but this could get very costly unless I'm extemely lucky!!
     

  5. Bert the Turtle

    Bert the Turtle AH Fanatic

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    The first thing I would do is shoot groups with one or the other barrel. While there is no reason to expect it will shoot both barrels to the same point of aim with other than the ammo used to regulate the rifle, I would want to know that I am not the problem before I started shopping around for ammo. I wouldn't start shopping until I know that I can shoot a decent single barrel group, offhand or from sticks. Can't really check for barrel to barrel regulation off of sandbags.

    If you are getting two tight groups separated by 6 inches, one could assume that is a regulation issue. If it is one 6-8 inch group, I don't know any way to tell if that is regulation vs. shooting.

    Edit to add that I am in no way attempting to impugn your shooting, just trying to keep first things first.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017

  6. Ukstalker.375

    Ukstalker.375 AH Member

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    Thanks, that's actually very sensible advice, and I totally agree with you, no criticism of my shooting ability at all, I totally accept I may well be a weak link here!
    I did try as you suggest (only briefly though sadly) and was getting two distinct patterns one high one low. Definitely willy take your advice on board though, thank you.
     

  7. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I know almost nothing about doubles, but when I saw a Chapuis Double at Cabela's I became interested. One thing I did find out about Chapuis doubles is that they are not regulated like some other doubles are. Apparently one barrel is fixed the other fits loosely and can be moved via a couple of screws or perhaps wedges of some type. Because of this the Chapouis doubles can more easily be regulated to shoot ammo different than what was used to regulate the rifle in the first place. I'd suggest you find a good gunsmith that has experience with Chapouis doubles and let him re-regulate it for the ammo you wish to use.
     

  8. Ukstalker.375

    Ukstalker.375 AH Member

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    Thank you, this is (I believe) only true of their smaller calibers and possibly over and under guns, as far as I'm aware the barrels are fixed and the wedge is located in front of the crowns between the tubes but all is soldered solid. I am going to take it to a chapuis expert in the coming weeks so fingers crossed!
     

  9. edward

    edward GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    youve probably already done this but a call to their cust0mer service dept should help.
     

  10. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Getting any new rifle is great news but frankly a double is fantastic news. Congrats and I hope you can get it regulated!
     

  11. crs

    crs AH Enthusiast

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    Congratulations on your new rifle and yae, they can be quite accurate:
    [​IMG]

    Aaron Little regulated my Simson .405 WCF double for the Hornady factory 300 grain ammo and it shoots it quite well.
     

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  12. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    One barrel grouping high and the other grouping low? Interesting. Can you share an image of the result?
     

  13. Ukstalker.375

    Ukstalker.375 AH Member

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    IMG_7354.JPG

    I don't think you can tell much from this target.... it looks more like I shot it with buckshot! Certainly compared to CRDS's efforts!! Damn I need to find me a round which it suits!
    To explain the target, the really low shots were scope adjustments and the 3 high ones were known flyers, driver error, the 6 uncovered rounds around the centre were the last group I shot, but I couldn't tell you which shots were which barrel, I'll pay more attention next time, but looking at them again in the cold light of day, there appear to be 3 distinct pairs there........ hmmm....
    In fairness to the rifle, the same chap that commented on the group size at the range did say the rifle looked so unused that it may get better with more running in, and it did seem to improve over the 25-30 rounds I put through it, but also, barrel walls are very thin on these guns so I was being a bit careful not to cook them too much.
    The range I use is the famous kynoch ammunitions manufacturers who are based in my village, now, I could get them to make up a round for me but given that their ammo works out at £5.50 a round once you've got an established load, that could cost me the earth!! Given that I'd have the cost of them working up the load in the first place too!
     
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  14. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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  15. Ukstalker.375

    Ukstalker.375 AH Member

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    I know Paul, so will definitely ask his expert advice, good call. Cheers
     
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  16. Spooksar

    Spooksar AH Fanatic

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    I was lucky with my Merkel first load was with Barnes XLC shot 3/4 in apart after these where discontinued, went to Woodlieghs and they are 1 inch apart. It was regulated with Federal ammo using a woodleigh bullets.
     

  17. edward

    edward GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    this was a 50 yard target,shots in the red are the regulated ammo from hornady,the two wider shots are woodliegh hand loads from my scope sighted encore hand gun in the same cal as my sabatti double,9.3x74r.

    001 (3).JPG
     
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  18. GuttormG

    GuttormG AH Veteran

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  19. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    Thank you for sharing the image. Unfortunately, there's too much noise in the signal to discern a path forward (not knowing which hole is from which barrel makes it impossible to know what to do).

    Im in agreement with the comment of another, which is to consult Paul Roberts.
     
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  20. edward

    edward GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    what was moderated and why?
     

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