Ready to Hunt Elephant

[CAustin]

Jerome thank you for the shot placement link. Are you state side.....? Perhaps Las Vegas?

 

[Big5]

I think you are mistaken about the 375 penetration. I believe it is widely accepted that the 375 will penetrate as good or better than most.... Boddington wrote a recent article in Dangerous Game Hunting magazine discussing this topic all the way up .700 NE.

Certainly you may be right. But understand that I'm in no way knocking the 375H&H because it is the one rifle I would keep if forced to sell all my rifles but one. And, since the time I dropped that bull 20 years ago, I have picked up many bigger boomers including a vintage Rigby .470NE double and a .460Wby among others. So even though my vintage Rigby double is easily worth far and away more dollar wise, my good ol' .375 has done more whackin' and stackin' of both big and small game in more places over the years than anything else I own. Memories have value too.

I would still not hesitate to use my trusty .375 again on elephant which I've often said on this site. What I was more referring to was the unmentioned fact that I was not using hand loads, and the over the counter boxed rounds I was using were not topped with any sort of premium solids as is very common today.

So, you are quite correct of course . . . hey, just know that I'd never knock the general efficiency of my old gal as she has not once failed me! LOL

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Jerome thank you for the shot placement link. Are you state side.....? Perhaps Las Vegas?

In California at this time, heading to Vegas early Wednesday morning…

 

[CAustin]

Best wishes! I hope you book a lot of hunts.

 

[CAustin]

Wow broke the tusk!

 

[CAustin]

Guys again thanks for all the advice and please keep it coming.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Wow broke the tusk!

TAP broke one tusk in half just like that one in the video.

Also, you'll notice the very distinct markings on the ends of each tusk in this photo. Chips and wear marks.

 

[CAustin]

Brickburn I see the markings you are talking about. Kind of like the Zebra backside and top of the tail....they all differ. I guess the taxidermist can fix a broken tusk!
I the video of the one falling face first the tusk breaking was unmistakable !

 

[CAustin]

What size tusks are these in the photo Brickburn?

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

What size tusks are these in the photo Brickburn?

Botswana Elephant taken by AH member tap. Combined tusk weight of 175lbs. An Elephant with total tusk length of 85" long with 19" lip circumference. One tusk weighed 89lbs and the other weighed nearly 87lbs. 53" of tusk sticking out of the lip and circumference of 19".
Read the story at http://www.africahunting.com/threads/hunt-of-a-life-time.11781/.

 

[Big5]

Botswana Elephant taken by AH member tap. Combined tusk weight of 175lbs. An Elephant with total tusk length of 85" long with 19" lip circumference. One tusk weighed 89lbs and the other weighed nearly 87lbs. 53" of tusk sticking out of the lip and circumference of 19".
Read the story at http://www.africahunting.com/threads/hunt-of-a-life-time.11781/

Bittersweet story, but a terrific elephant.

 

[BRICKBURN]

What size tusks are these in the photo Brickburn?

Jerome shared the link to the whole story.
Tony got a monster.

 

[CAustin]

That is a whale?

 

[Dragan N.]

Certainly you may be right. But understand that I'm in no way knocking the 375H&H because it is the one rifle I would keep if forced to sell all my rifles but one. And, since the time I dropped that bull 20 years ago, I have picked up many bigger boomers including a vintage Rigby .470NE double and a .460Wby among others. So even though my vintage Rigby double is easily worth far and away more dollar wise, my good ol' .375 has done more whackin' and stackin' of both big and small game in more places over the years than anything else I own. Memories have value too.

I would still not hesitate to use my trusty .375 again on elephant which I've often said on this site. What I was more referring to was the unmentioned fact that I was not using hand loads, and the over the counter boxed rounds I was using were not topped with any sort of premium solids as is very common today.

So, you are quite correct of course . . . hey, just know that I'd never knock the general efficiency of my old gal as she has not once failed me! LOL

In Boddington's book Elephant Renaissance he talks about how some of the old school ivory hunters, I believe Bell was one of them used .270, .303 British etc... for hunting elephants. Now Boddington clearly states he doesn't recommend that and there would obviously be a huge risk involved using small calibers like that but in the hands of an experienced shooter/hunter almost any caliber/gun can kill almost any animal.

 

[ActionBob]

A couple thoughts come to mind when I try to think of this rationally;
When those hunters of years past wounded an elephant, or if they wounded a lot of them... and wrote books of their great exploits.. Do you think those wounding's would have made it into print?

It is likely Bell your are primarily referring to or thinking of, he was known as a great shot, and a man who investigated and new exactly how and where to shoot an elephant with a small bore gun to kill it. And from all reports he was very brash or brave or both when it came to getting close and in place to take his shot.

Today poachers kill elephants with 7.62 x 39's! LOTS of bullets, lots of cruelty. They will shoot into the knees to bring the animals down, then blast away on full auto to "drill" into the had to the brain......

Hunters on the other hand use large bore capable calibers with high quality bullets and for the mot part bring the animals down cleanly with one shot to the brain.

If he non hunting community looked into this, I would hope the could see the difference...

It is fun and exciting to read of the exploits and feats with those small calibers.... But I hope to hell we never see it happen again!

This same line of thought is also a good reason to avoid the heart lung shot if possible. Especially if the animal is in an area where it may run to a spot you do not want it to be when it dies...... My PH was VERY cognizant of this! For safety of us, the good of the animal, the good of the herd, and to avoid potential PR issues.

 

[ScottG]

I think we have to be humane but aware of possible repercussions of botched hunting exploits.

 

[Dragan N.]

A couple thoughts come to mind when I try to think of this rationally;
When those hunters of years past wounded an elephant, or if they wounded a lot of them... and wrote books of their great exploits.. Do you think those wounding's would have made it into print?

It is likely Bell your are primarily referring to or thinking of, he was known as a great shot, and a man who investigated and new exactly how and where to shoot an elephant with a small bore gun to kill it. And from all reports he was very brash or brave or both when it came to getting close and in place to take his shot.

Today poachers kill elephants with 7.62 x 39's! LOTS of bullets, lots of cruelty. They will shoot into the knees to bring the animals down, then blast away on full auto to "drill" into the had to the brain......

Hunters on the other hand use large bore capable calibers with high quality bullets and for the mot part bring the animals down cleanly with one shot to the brain.

If he non hunting community looked into this, I would hope the could see the difference...

It is fun and exciting to read of the exploits and feats with those small calibers.... But I hope to hell we never see it happen again!

This same line of thought is also a good reason to avoid the heart lung shot if possible. Especially if the animal is in an area where it may run to a spot you do not want it to be when it dies...... My PH was VERY cognizant of this! For safety of us, the good of the animal, the good of the herd, and to avoid potential PR issues.

Yes Boddington even mentions something along the lines of how they had a certain loss/wounded etc... rate that was acceptable to them but would not be acceptable by today's standards. And off course a botched shot or loss isn't something most hunters would write about. With sport hunting I'd say the chances of recovering a wounded animal or making a clean kill are very high although some animals still get lost even with the by in large high standards that exist today. Not only is this for ethical reasons but also financial ones hunting these animals costs tens of thousands of dollars and if you wound that one animal your hunt is over and you must pay the trophy fees regardless if it gets recovered or not.

The days of small calibers or using less than ideal equipment in general aren't really gone. Apart from what poachers are doing to elephants which you mentioned, there are still people who live a subsistence lifestyle or supplement their diet with game animals and use really inadequate and out dated firearms or equipment in general. Although I would say they are doing it out of necessity/making do with what they've got. Their skill level can be quite impressive however. Although I doubt many books will be written about these people as they are usually poor and live literally and metaphorically on the fringes of society.

I guess there is also a relationship between skill level vs. quality of equipment. If you have an extremely high skill level, there probably aren't any hunters alive today that could rival Bell, you can get away with using sub par equipment especially if you are used to it. On the other hand someone with the very best equipment but with little skill won't fare to well. While one can never have too much skill, experience or know to much I'd say there is a golden mean in terms of equipment; in that it will fully serve the intended purpose/ be functional but at the same time it isn't a show piece, but a tool, and thus it won't break the bank. Usually when you get into for example ridiculously expensive guns, knives, etc...the really high price tag comes more so because of their collectability or aesthetic value; they are presentation pieces if you will, then from their higher practicality. Yes they might still be better from a practical stand point than a more middle of the road one but not by much, and in the hands of a skilled operator the difference isn't to significant imo.

 

[Velo Dog]

Bell wrote about himself, including much daring-do about bagging over a thousand elephants with small bore rifles.
He barely mentions owning a double barreled 450/400 and not one but TWO, special built just for him Rigby .416 Mausers at different times during his ivory hunting career.
This is not to mention at least a thousand rounds of live ammunition for these .416's, loaded with 410 grain "solids" and delivered to him, sealed in "tropical tins" (huge sardine can like packaging to resist moisture).
Is it just possible his book/s might not have sold as well if he wrote about shooting a bunch of elephants with proper elephant guns?
Might be in the days before television, that sensational stories in books were main stream entertainment and shooting a bunch of elephants with small calibers could've fit that market very well.
Even if shooting an elephant with a small caliber was legal now, (which it is not), the day I am ever blessed to book an elephant hunt, I still would just bring a boring old elephant gun.

 

[gizmo]

Hey have you decided who your going with and where?

 

[Velo Dog]

Hey have you decided who your going with and where?

Nope, I am still shopping for the right deal.
Not even sure my knee will be up to it (had surgery on it a few months ago).
And so, my alternate plan might have to be hippo on land, as they generally do not require as many miles per day that elephants often do.
If that turns out to be so, I will have nothing to complain about because I am not on a mission to collect certain species.
I just like to go hunting.