Precious Metals Thread

[rookhawk]

I thought I'd create this thread because I'm a rank amateur in physical metals. I'd love to hear what others are doing and to learn from others experiences.

I've been divesting my GLD and SLV investments and buying physical metals proportionately, reinvesting my IRA and 401k in equities lately.

I've noticed there are deals out there to buy brilliant uncirculated Krugerrands for spot price, occasionally smaller denomination guilders etc for Spot. Today, there was a deal on brilliant uncirculated Double Eagle St. Gaudens for spot.

Do you just buy the cheapest gold and silver you can find, or do you try to find "deals" that may have numismatic upside as well as a investment force multiplier?

When you buy vintage coins for good deals, do you ever pay the fees to get them professionally graded in the hopes you found a collectible rather than just the value of the metal?

In today's marketplace, are you buying, selling, or holding physical metals? Bars or coins?

 

[Red Leg]

With respect to physical gold, I'll simply say at a 28% capital gain hit, I am very selective in what and when I buy, and especially when I sell. Most of our apocalypse stash and Mrs Redleg's jewelry will go to the kids where death day is their cost basis.

 

[318AE]

Uncirculated (MS65) 90% St Gaudens at spot sounds like a great price. They usually have some premium.

 

[Mekaniks]

In my experience (amateur level at best)...Physical metals are easy to buy (new & shiny) and then hard to sell for a profit.

Outside of the occasional yard sale jewelry find (if you know what to look for) it has to be a long, long term investment. Buy it, hold it, hold it, pass it to the estate.....

Trading ETF's such as SPDR Gold worked out much better for me....

 

[Greffdog]

I started down the route of good deals on coins paying near spot prices. On top of not knowing what I didn’t know, I realized it’s a lot more effort to keep track of what is what with collectible coins. The additional complexity made me realize I didn’t want to play in that space.

If you aren’t interested in the learning curve and cost of mistakes/paying premiums on coins, I have found Costco is tough to beat for paying close to spot plus CC rewards and 2% back, albeit the stock is intermittent. I think I have also used TexasPreciousMetals.

I recently saw a reddit post of someone who had a $500 bill gifted to them from a grandparent. They were asking about value and how much it could be worth someday. Someone else summarized the speculation of holding for the future value quite well.

If their Grandparents had invested the face value of that $500 bill in 1990 it would be worth far more than the value today. The collectors view was if there isn’t any enjoyment of the collectible, just holding it hoping for a spike in value is likely less beneficial than just taking the value and putting it in a true investment. I think having a coin from 1884 is pretty cool, being an 1893-CC doesnt do anything for me.

 

[tarbe]

findbullionprices.com

It is the ammoseek.com of PM purchasing.

My simple rules:

1. Stick with recognized mints, preferably sovereign (90% of my stuff is sovereign, often with security to help prevent counterfeiting)
2. Buy from reputable dealers. The big on line guys often have great deals, buy enough to get free shipping and lower premiums. Findbullionprices.com helps you see the market
3. Don't chase, buy on dips

I don't suspect this will apply to you personally, but I always caution folks to not put wealth into metals that they might need to meet obligations. You may be forced to liquidate during a dip. Put long-term savings away into metals.

Study past currency debasements and monetary crises. See how some protected themselves.

Become familiar with the concept of the great taking (and the legal framework already in place to make it "work").

 

[USMA84DAB]

My stack is pretty small - retired guys don't have a lot of income to work with.

Light bulb went on several years ago - the coin collection from childhood years was going to be worth zip if TSHTF. I took it to a local shop and got a couple of hundred, which I flipped right into Constitutional silver (90%, junk).I stack for metal at the least cost. That requirement varies as the market gyrates. In 2021 you could get Philharmonics for $.50 more than a round. The security of the sovereign was worth the extra $.50 to me. Now the premiums on sovereigns are $3-5 and Constitutional is selling for at or even below spot. I pay attention and buy as close to spot as I can. I do pull out a percentage of any windfall and save it by putting it into silver. Over time, even my minuscule mites do add up into a little bit of a nest egg.

Every once in a while I will get a windfall and I snag a Swiss 20 FR piece because the premium is less than any other I can find on a piece of gold. I know someone that flipped the sale proceeds from a home sale into gold. I only wish I could make a move like that!

I stay away from collectibles. If we ever have to use the metals for money again, no one will give a flying F$#@ if it is the key Star Wars painted silver round that completed the series - they will only care about the weight and purity. A cull Morgan will trade as currency the same as an MS65 Morgan - both will simply be silver dollars.

IF IT AIN'T IN YOUR HANDS YOU DON'T OWN IT!!!!

I use the the board Tarbe brought up (FindBullion), but mostly use Hero Bullion and Monument Metals. They have reasonable prices, are trustworthy, ship fast, buy stuff back if you need to sell, decent free shipping threshold, etc.. SD Bullion can have good sale prices sometimes.

No paper trading for me - that is the same as going to the casino in my mind - winners don't keep all of those fancy lights on at the tables and slot machines.

YMMV

 

[rookhawk]

I have a neighbor that is a coin collecting / metals savant that has been helping me. I found a "too good to be true" dealer out of New York called "Bullion Exchanges". I asked him if it was legit, he said he had used them. I asked AI and BBB the same.

They have been selling uncirculated coins at spot from time to time.

AI suggested I keep buying the St Gaudens Double Eagles at spot. They say they are mint uncirculated on the dealer site, but they could potentially be polished or an undesirable year. AI says it wants to see them because there is a hack at present due to their value, their numismatic value potential, and the current cost of gold. If AI thinks it is a grade 63, it recommends $45 to have it professionally graded. Then sell the graded ones to a collector and rinse-repeat the buying operation. AI basically suggests using the collector angle as a force multiplier to acquire more gold quantity by selling off anything collectible I acquire at Spot.

Thoughts on AI's suggestion?

 

[rookhawk]

With respect to physical gold, I'll simply say at a 28% capital gain hit, I am very selective in what and when I buy, and especially when I sell. Most of our apocalypse stash and Mrs Redleg's jewelry will go to the kids where death day is their cost basis.

I respect the wisdom in this, I have to ask what you target as a percentage of your portfolio as physical assets? 1-2% reasonable? More/less?

At a seminar recently I found out that collectibles are not disclosed on your kids FAFSA, but brokerage accounts and cash are. Hence, my kids can either collect coins, or they can give all that money as savings directly to the school in the form of higher tuition rates based on less "need". The rest of their funds they moved to ROTHs which aren't disclosable on the FAFSA and they can use to pay for higher education as well.

 

[Red Leg]

I respect the wisdom in this, I have to ask what you target as a percentage of your portfolio as physical assets? 1-2% reasonable? More/less?

At a seminar recently I found out that collectibles are not disclosed on your kids FAFSA, but brokerage accounts and cash are. Hence, my kids can either collect coins, or they can give all that money as savings directly to the school in the form of higher tuition rates based on less "need". The rest of their funds they moved to ROTHs which aren't disclosable on the FAFSA and they can use to pay for higher education as well.

We are only about 1%, but it is physical.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I seem to hover just below 1% depending on each market. Right now perhaps more than 1% due to each market.

My last purchase was 1 oz and 1/10 oz krugerrands. I got a decent price but it was partially a novelty purchase. I was looking for gold anyway.

If doomsday doesn’t land in my lifetime the metals will go to my daughter.

I usually buy off the street from locally known buyers and sellers. We usually meet in a police precinct parking lot. I’ve been buying from this guy for a while.

He isn’t necessarily a metals guy. He’s just an opportunist. When houses are low he buys houses. When metals are low he buys metals.

At the recent spike in metals he was moving a lot of metal and putting it in anything else he thought was undervalued.

 

[rookhawk]

I seem to hover just below 1% depending on each market. Right now perhaps more than 1% due to each market.

My last purchase was 1 oz and 1/10 oz krugerrands. I got a decent price but it was partially a novelty purchase. I was looking for gold anyway.

If doomsday doesn’t land in my lifetime the metals will go to my daughter.

I usually buy off the street from locally known buyers and sellers. We usually meet in a police precinct parking lot. I’ve been buying from this guy for a while.

He isn’t necessarily a metals guy. He’s just an opportunist. When houses are low he buys houses. When metals are low he buys metals.

At the recent spike in metals he was moving a lot of metal and putting it in anything else he thought was undervalued.

The one certainty in life is that all politicians believe getting reelected is their chief concern. The way to make their voters the least unhappy is deficit spending and inflation. I have only bought silver to "round-up" my gold orders because I'm not so sure silver is a bargain right now, but I can't see gold at $4400ish being a bad buy. If we hit a recession rather than a jitter, the retail investors are going to get wiped out in AI and tech, then they'll move to metals for a long time feeling bitten by the market. Inflation which is a certainty will push gold up further along with demand coming from flight-out-of-equities.

If I'm dead wrong and all the coins become absolutely worthless, it means the economy is roaring and I'm doing better than ever in my stock portfolio. (fat chance, unfortunately)

Just my psychological angle of metals right now, not necessarily investment analysis.

 

[Altitude sickness]

That’s where most people are. The bulk is in the market of some sort and home. And the metal is a last resort lifeboat.

The last spike was an anomaly. Both the stock market and metals high. Primarily die to tourists and arbitrage.

 

[Rimbaud]

A lot of the precious metal price rise is due to central banks buying gold, and global fears about the mechanisms used to determine currency prices. Gold, in particular, is the feel good asset in times of economic duress (real and imagined). Silver is an industrial metal and prices should reflect economic output, but silver is also called the poor man's gold. If it makes you happy, buy it. A lot of the gold coins are beautifully produced, and works of art. Plus, unlike stocks you can hold precious metals, which appeals to many people. I remember having lunch with a well-known hedge fund manager after the financial crisis and he carried around photos of his gold stash in a Swiss vault that he liked to show people. I figured that if that fund manager was so bearish it was a good time to be bullish to stocks - and it was. Even now, the S&P 500 is around historic highs.

 

[rookhawk]

That’s where most people are. The bulk is in the market of some sort and home. And the metal is a last resort lifeboat.

The last spike was an anomaly. Both the stock market and metals high. Primarily die to tourists and arbitrage.

Specific to silver, the major run on silver was caused by physical supply shortages. The vaults were literally empty on the CME and in London for physical delivery and it caused a run. I sold a good chunk of my digital silver for handsome profits near the highs, but the remaining shares I held onto are still down 12% from whenever I purchased them.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Yeah, it was a circular firing squad there for a while.

 

[tarbe]

Silver supply has been in a six year structural deficit.

 

[BryceM]

I've been a collector of mid to high end collectible coins along with physical gold & silver bullion for quite a few years. I am less active in that scene than before, but here's my take:

If you want to own some, take physical possession of it and figure out a way to store it securely. Bullion-backed paper has some of the same benefits, but it's still just paper.

Be a buyer and a seller, at least occasionally. Learn where and how to sell. Metals are always easy to buy. They're pretty easy to sell, but you need to know the ropes and have several options. In times of price turmoil or high trade volumes, it's a bit harder.

It's possible to buy and sell without even a shred of paperwork, in smaller quantities, but understand dodging tax liabilities can catch up to you.

Don't buy from guys on TV or in hotels.

Consider silver too.

I'm thinking somewhere between 5% and 10% of your net worth there is plenty. Buy it, and then pray like crazy that it goes down in value. If it does, everything else you own is probably doing well. If metals are skyrocketing, something is wrong everywhere else.

Don't mix collectible coins and bullion investing. They're two very different things.

American gold eagles, buffalos, and silver eagles come at a small premium, but they do when you sell them too. Canadian maples, and SA Krugerrands are OK too. Certified pre-33 US gold is fun. Saints, Liberty Heads, and Indians are fun, but again, don't mix the collecting and bullion play.

The run from 2023 to mid 2025 was spectacular. It might be a generation before that happens again. Historically, there have been decades-long runs that were pretty stagnant.

 

[rookhawk]

American gold eagles, buffalos, and silver eagles come at a small premium, but they do when you sell them too. Canadian maples, and SA Krugerrands are OK too. Certified pre-33 US gold is fun. Saints, Liberty Heads, and Indians are fun, but again, don't mix the collecting and bullion play.

@BryceM if I can get potentially collectible coins at spot, isn't it advantageous to buy those if 1/10th of them had an unanticipated numismatic value? I've purchased Krugerrands at spot and also St Gaudens Double Eagles. I assumed the latter may be worth more to somebody than their spot value?

 

[kpoynter]

@BryceM if I can get potentially collectible coins at spot, isn't it advantageous to buy those if 1/10th of them had an unanticipated numismatic value? I've purchased Krugerrands at spot and also St Gaudens Double Eagles. I assumed the latter may be worth more to somebody than their spot value?

IMO it’s always good to buy these at spot. Now a lot of the little promotions (usually Silver like an Eagle) at spot are normally for one coin… then the shipping etc and you are at a premium anyway.
The first time I ever bought physical Silver and Gold I managed to catch them right at like $28 and I think $1975 or so respectively
I like the Eagles and also the Pre 1933 coins. They have numismatic value and are fun and cool.
I’ve only purchased from highly reputable wholesalers/dealers.
I also found it fun the collect some of the cool Silver ones just to look at like Kookaburra, Libertads etc