Politics

[mdwest]

Either that or Trump should really try to restrain himself from continuing to sow doubt about wether or not the US would honor article 5 or not. I know that the Trump-apologetics will say that he is just trying to force Europe to pay up but I think its way past that...

Why should he restain himself?

because leftists get their feelings hurt?

because it sows doubt about article 5?

Thats the problem that Europe cant seem to understand... he is not restraining himself on purpose.. because he doesnt care at all about hurt feelings.. and he very intentionally wants to sow doubt about article 5..

Its not hard to understand "America First" and "MAGA" agenda.. and Trump isnt hard to understand.. he has been saying the same things since the 80's.. more than 35 years before he ever even started seriously talk about running for public office..

He is an asshole.. and hes been an asshole his entire life.. He's 79 years old.. if you expect that to change now, you might want to consider a little expectation management for yourself..

He negotiates by making outrageous, unrealistic demands up front.. then conceeding ground.. then making more outrageous demands.. then conceeding ground... and more often than not, ends up fairly far ahead of where he actually wanted to be to begin with..

This isnt new.. again, he has been doing it his entire life.. go look at business deals he was involved in 20, 30, even 40 years ago.. hes been doing it for as long as he has been negotiating.. He has always been hyper confrontational, driven by leverage, etc..

so again.. if you expect that to change now.. you may want to consider a little expectation management for yourself..

Europe can continue to cry, moan, whine, scream, stamp its feet, and get pissed... absolutely zero will change.. in fact, because Trump LOVES confrontation, LOVES leverage, and LOVES trolling.. if Europe doesnt step back, take a moment, LEARN, and then start to execute things on their side differently, its almost a 10000% guarantee that things will get worse for Europe, not better..

Trump doesnt care about hurt feelings... he THRIVES on them.. and he doesnt care that people like Starmer, Macron, Pondoro, Ontario Hunter get their knickers twisted every day because they dont like his "style"... it just gives him more motivation to further troll them..

 

[LivingTheDream]

Either that or Trump should really try to restrain himself from continuing to sow doubt about wether or not the US would honor article 5 or not. I know that the Trump-apologetics will say that he is just trying to force Europe to pay up but I think its way past that...

Maybe European countries shouldn't close its airspace. Thats not tough talk, that is not sitting it out, that is directly hindering a war effort in the strategic interest of the United States.

Also care to explain how a France got a tanker through the straight on the Iranian side? Would really like to hear how that came about, right have France Vetoed an UNSC resolution siding with China and France.

But yes Trump said mean words, so Europe should be worried about the US not honoring article 5.

Can you imagine if the US voted with Russia on a UNSC resolution against France and the UK....holy shit would you guys lose your minds.

Its going to be so cool to hunt Greenland and not need a passport.

 

[Pondoro]

Why should he restain himself?

because leftists get their feelings hurt?

because it sows doubt about article 5?

Thats the problem that Europe cant seem to understand... he is not restraining himself on purpose.. because he doesnt care at all about hurt feelings.. and he very intentionally wants to sow doubt about article 5..

Its not hard to understand "America First" and "MAGA" agenda.. and Trump isnt hard to understand.. he has been saying the same things since the 80's.. more than 35 years before he ever even started seriously talk about running for public office..

He is an asshole.. and hes been an asshole his entire life.. He's 79 years old.. if you expect that to change now, you might want to consider a little expectation management for yourself..

He negotiates by making outrageous, unrealistic demands up front.. then conceeding ground.. then making more outrageous demands.. then conceeding ground... and more often than not, ends up fairly far ahead of where he actually wanted to be to begin with..

This isnt new.. again, he has been doing it his entire life.. go look at business deals he was involved in 20, 30, even 40 years ago.. hes been doing it for as long as he has been negotiating.. He has always been hyper confrontational, driven by leverage, etc..

so again.. if you expect that to change now.. you may want to consider a little expectation management for yourself..

Europe can continue to cry, moan, whine, scream, stamp its feet, and get pissed... absolutely zero will change.. in fact, because Trump LOVES confrontation, LOVES leverage, and LOVES trolling.. if Europe doesnt step back, take a moment, LEARN, and then start to execute things on their side differently, its almost a 10000% guarantee that things will get worse for Europe, not better..

Trump doesnt care about hurt feelings... he THRIVES on them.. and he doesnt care that people like Starmer, Macron, Pondoro, Ontario Hunter get their knickers twisted every day because they dont like his "style"... it just gives him more motivation to further troll them..

You keep repeating this..for the 50th time now maybe..?

So go your own way..bomb Iran back to the stoneage..what a brilliant thing to do..!

And please leave NATO..we are so far apart politically..we need to go separate ways..

 

[Brent in Az]

Like I said, a true racist right-wing fantasy land.

More leftist flying monkey denial spew The worst president in history botched the withdrawal from Afghanistan and got peole killed. Something the Democrats excel at.....botching something simple, and getting people killed.

 

[Brent in Az]

Eurowhiners.

 

[mdwest]

You keep repeating this..for the 50th time now maybe..?

So go your own way..bomb Iran back to the stoneage..what a brilliant thing to do..!

And please leave NATO..we are so far apart politically..we need to go separate ways..

you keep crying like a child... so why wouldnt it continue to get repeated? its obvious you lack understanding beneath all of your tears..

 

[Betterinthebush]

And please leave NATO..we are so far apart politically..we need to go separate ways..

Before I was willing to leave and take Greenland with us. Now, after reading how badly you want us gone, I’d just as soon rather stick around since it bothers you so much. Nope! No-sir-ee! I wouldn’t leave for all the lutefisk in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

 

[wesheltonj]

You keep repeating this..for the 50th time now maybe..?

So go your own way..bomb Iran back to the stoneage..what a brilliant thing to do..!

And please leave NATO..we are so far apart politically..we need to go separate ways..

I'm sure you will not miss our 84 folks stationed there, I hope you're fluent in Russian. Below is a news report from the most liberal anti -Trump news in the USA. I think your NATO leadership has a different opinion than you.

https://www.npr.org/2026/01/27/nx-s1-5689791/nato-chief-europe-defense-us

 

[KJE81]

Why should he restain himself?

because leftists get their feelings hurt?

because it sows doubt about article 5?

Thats the problem that Europe cant seem to understand... he is not restraining himself on purpose.. because he doesnt care at all about hurt feelings.. and he very intentionally wants to sow doubt about article 5..

Its not hard to understand "America First" and "MAGA" agenda.. and Trump isnt hard to understand.. he has been saying the same things since the 80's.. more than 35 years before he ever even started seriously talk about running for public office..

He is an asshole.. and hes been an asshole his entire life.. He's 79 years old.. if you expect that to change now, you might want to consider a little expectation management for yourself..

He negotiates by making outrageous, unrealistic demands up front.. then conceeding ground.. then making more outrageous demands.. then conceeding ground... and more often than not, ends up fairly far ahead of where he actually wanted to be to begin with..

This isnt new.. again, he has been doing it his entire life.. go look at business deals he was involved in 20, 30, even 40 years ago.. hes been doing it for as long as he has been negotiating.. He has always been hyper confrontational, driven by leverage, etc..

so again.. if you expect that to change now.. you may want to consider a little expectation management for yourself..

Europe can continue to cry, moan, whine, scream, stamp its feet, and get pissed... absolutely zero will change.. in fact, because Trump LOVES confrontation, LOVES leverage, and LOVES trolling.. if Europe doesnt step back, take a moment, LEARN, and then start to execute things on their side differently, its almost a 10000% guarantee that things will get worse for Europe, not better..

Trump doesnt care about hurt feelings... he THRIVES on them.. and he doesnt care that people like Starmer, Macron, Pondoro, Ontario Hunter get their knickers twisted every day because they dont like his "style"... it just gives him more motivation to further troll them..

Like I wrote, I think he either should restrain himself or simply make it clear that the US is leaving, even if he cant do it de jure he can say it and then perhaps Nato will cease to exist regardless and something new could be built from the ashes. I mean the US dont want to foot the bill and that is completly understandable, you should not have to, but in order to truly force Europe to do it ourselves the US needs to leave Nato or like you wrote some pages back, simply make Nato not work by not attending joint exercises etc...but really a clean break would be better for all parties.

I get it that he is to old for his position (after all he said Biden was to old at the 2020 election and he himself is older now) and not at all used to restrain himself, but perhaps one has to in order to do the job as good as possible?

 

[KJE81]

Maybe European countries shouldn't close its airspace. Thats not tough talk, that is not sitting it out, that is directly hindering a war effort in the strategic interest of the United States.

Also care to explain how a France got a tanker through the straight on the Iranian side? Would really like to hear how that came about, right have France Vetoed an UNSC resolution siding with China and France.

But yes Trump said mean words, so Europe should be worried about the US not honoring article 5.

Can you imagine if the US voted with Russia on a UNSC resolution against France and the UK....holy shit would you guys lose your minds.

Its going to be so cool to hunt Greenland and not need a passport.

I wonder if France might have started to pay for the oil with Euro? I read somewhere (cant find the source now) that Iran offered the EU and China to freely transit the strait if they paid for oil in their own currency rather then in dollars. Also the US under Trump has been voting against UN resolutions in the company of Russia, Belarus and others...for example this one: https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/117930/documents/HHRG-119-GO06-20250225-SD006.pdf

And in regard to article 5 why cant the US then formally withdraw instead of creating this (very negative) strategic ambiguity concerning Nato? Like I wrote just now in response to mdwest, by now a clean break would probably be for the best, both for Europe and the US...

Do you really think not needing a passport to hunt in Greenland is worth a war (however short it would be)? Thats just plain sad...

 

[mdwest]

Like I wrote, I think he either should restrain himself or simply make it clear that the US is leaving, even if he cant do it de jure he can say it and then perhaps Nato will cease to exist regardless and something new could be built from the ashes. I mean the US dont want to foot the bill and that is completly understandable, you should not have to, but in order to truly force Europe to do it ourselves the US needs to leave Nato or like you wrote some pages back, simply make Nato not work by not attending joint exercises etc...but really a clean break would be better for all parties.

I get it that he is to old for his position (after all he said Biden was to old at the 2020 election and he himself is older now) and not at all used to restrain himself, but perhaps one has to in order to do the job as good as possible?

We are likely talking past one another..

you think he should restrain himself or make it clear that the US is leaving..

Trump doesnt operate that way.. he never has.. it has nothing to do with his age.. go watch interviews with him when he was in his 30's..

He has never been restrained.. and he has never been "clear" when he is leveraging assets, negotiating, arguing, or doing anything else.. he has for his entire life been indirect, confrontational, murky, and unclear.. VERY INTENTIONALLY his entire life.. go read his books.. go watch old interviews.. the 2000's version of Trump is not any different than the 1970's version of Trump or the 80's or the 90's..

you think he should be restrained or clear..

that is something he will never do (and has never done)..

so.. I think you should manage your expectations.. otherwise you are simply going to remain frustrated for the next 2.5 years..

 

[Tanks]

And please leave NATO..we are so far apart politically..we need to go separate ways..

Ahem, you think you have a lot in common politically with Eastern European NATO countries or Turkey?

Also, how much of US combat infrastructure (satellite communications, intelligence) etc. can NATO replace in order to be self sufficient without the US.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I wonder if France might have started to pay for the oil with Euro? I read somewhere (cant find the source now) that Iran offered the EU and China to freely transit the strait if they paid for oil in their own currency rather then in dollars. Also the US under Trump has been voting against UN resolutions in the company of Russia, Belarus and others...for example this one: https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/117930/documents/HHRG-119-GO06-20250225-SD006.pdf

And in regard to article 5 why cant the US then formally withdraw instead of creating this (very negative) strategic ambiguity concerning Nato? Like I wrote just now in response to mdwest, by now a clean break would probably be for the best, both for Europe and the US...

Do you really think not needing a passport to hunt in Greenland is worth a war (however short it would be)? Thats just plain sad...

Good call on the UN floor vote, I dont agree with that action. But good point.

With regards to article 5, I think you are missing my point. You guys have created this boogie man that the US wouldn't honor article 5 if a NATO member was attacked based on words, you guys are actively working against the US strategic interests in a war by closing your airspace. I don't think there needs to be a break from NATO and ultimately it will survive, but though Trump has talked tough Europe has taken action.

Im also sure France paid Iran, the same way Germany was paying Russia for Oil. You guys are literally the kid thats gives his lunch money to bully, though you are stronger, faster, smarter, and have better gear.

There won't be war for Greenland, and I do think a strongly worded email from the UN is worth me not needing an import permit for a muskox.

 

[Pondoro]

Ahem, you think you have a lot in common politically with Eastern European NATO countries or Turkey?

Also, how much of US combat infrastructure (satellite communications, intelligence) etc. can NATO replace in order to be self sufficient without the US.

Why should we not be able to launch sattelites..? There is already talks of an european nuclear arms build up to restain Russia.

And waiting to see if he will attack or TACO out again..

" A whole civilization will die tonight.." Bla-bla-bla.. That is genocide..

 

[Hunt anything]

Like the american people becoming more and more politically divided...much because of Trumps politics, USA and the rest of NATO are going the same way..

Right now there is a political abyss between the two.. I honestly think its best that USA leave NATO..

The division in the American electorate started long before Trump, Obama and his identity politics lead to a lot of it, Trump definitely didn’t help as he is so polarizing but Biden hit the turbo charger and sent it to warp speed! They saw everything through an identification prism pitting every group against each other.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

The division in the American electorate started long before Trump, Obama and his identity politics lead to a lot of it, Trump definitely didn’t help as he is so polarizing but Biden hit the turbo charger and sent it to warp speed! They saw everything through an identification prism pitting every group against each other.

At least you guys got a real black leader our divisive leader only occasionally painted himself that colour

 

[Wheels]

Why should we not be able to launch sattelites..? There is already talks of an european nuclear arms build up to restain Russia.

And waiting to see if he will attack or TACO out again..

" A whole civilization will die tonight.." Bla-bla-bla.. That is genocide..

Europe should launch their own satellites. Just as they should have had an additional 80,000 military men stationed on their continent the past 60 years instead of relying on America for the past 80.

You conveniently quote the first line of Trumps quote and call it genocide. Why don’t you quote the entire text. The second to last sentence tells you who the civilization is, the Ayatollahs, and the IRGC. The last line says “God Bless the Great People of Iran!”

Trump is not destroying the Persian or Iranian civilization. To insinuate that is either spurious or obtuseness. At this point I don’t know which category you fall in.

 

[Wheels]

It’s amusing that Democrats celebrated Zelenskyy blowing up the Crimea bridge but it’s a war crime if Trump blows up a bridge.

 

[Newboomer]

You keep repeating this..for the 50th time now maybe..?

So go your own way..bomb Iran back to the stoneage..what a brilliant thing to do..!

And please leave NATO..we are so far apart politically..we need to go separate ways..

If the USA even thought of leaving NATO it would crumble overnight. None of the european crybabies have a clue how to run it.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Ahem, you think you have a lot in common politically with Eastern European NATO countries or Turkey?

Also, how much of US combat infrastructure (satellite communications, intelligence) etc. can NATO replace in order to be self sufficient without the US.

I think it’s more realistic that NATO would simply cease to be. The United States is the backbone of the organization and without the US there is no NATO.

I think the suggestion by some here that we leave it in order to somehow preserve it from Trump is horribly naive. It’s really an all or nothing proposition. If you want NATO, you have to put up with the US.

And this isn’t me defending Trump’s aggressive stance towards NATO (though I do agree with everyone paying their due), it’s just realistic.

Google tells me that the US supplies 35-40% of the alliance’s manpower and 65% of funding. Turkey is the second largest contributor of manpower.

Some of our friends here suggesting that the US leaving somehow preserves anything meaningful is asinine.