Politics

[Nyati]

View attachment 754473

Just paid 1.569€ today

 

[mdwest]

Thats not how sources work. I dont have to prove that your numbers are incorrect, you are supposed to CITE a source. Not an AI that hallucinates all the time. An AI could easily cite some conspiracy theory website with made up numbers. Which is what I suspect happened.

Ok.. so I’ll ask a second time.. where’s your source? What are the correct numbers?

Or are you like pondoro and just like to whine without substantiating anything with fact?

 

[Marley7x57]

Remind me again, where in the constitution does it require an ID to vote? I must have also missed the section where it guarantees you the right to buy booze. Thanks.

Just where in the Constitution is it stated that ID's cannot be required in order to vote?

 

[Big_Easy]

Remind me where in the constitution is says not to stick your dick in a chicken…

Everything conceivable isn’t in the constitution..

That’s why there is a legislative branch.. they create the laws..

The judicial branch then determines if those laws are constitutional..

Thank you for your straw man argument. Let me explain how the constitution works. The legislative branch doesn't have the right to make a law that takes away a constitutional right. Only an amendment can do that. But there is a difference between what is in the constitution and what isn't. Thats why the legislature can pass a law requiring an ID for you to buy a beer. Hope this helps.

 

[mdwest]

You actually just made my point…

The legislative branch can make a law that requires you to have ID to buy a beer… something unaddressed by the constitution..

And… the legislative branch can also make a law that requires you to have ID to vote… also something unaddressed by the constitution…

And then the judicial branch will ultimately test those laws to determine constitutionality…

Sometimes they pass.., sometimes they fail… sometimes they last until something else passes or the courts change their determination…

 

[Big_Easy]

Again unsubstantiated blither..

Show me where the Republican Party has demanded a birth certificate to vote…

A birth certificate doesn’t establish citizenship.. there are countless US citizens that don’t have birth certificates from the US..

I don’t recall anyone bitching about ID for a firearms purchase either… it’s certainly not a Republican Party platform issue..

Some people (a very marginal few) take exception to back ground checks… but if you bothered to actually look for facts you’d know that’s the exception rather than a rule..

In fact many republicans are very much on board for background checks these days due to mental health issues surrounding gun violence…

It’s hardly a unifying issue within the party

Thats literally what the SAVE act is going to require. It requires a passport, a birth certificate, or REAL ID. Both a REAL ID and a Passport require a certified birth certificate to get, hence, a birth certificate. The problem is the cost and complexity of obtaining documents. Not everyone can obtain a certified copy of their birth certificate.

 

[RLD]

Are you saying that proving you have a legitimate right to vote is a bad thing?
I’m 62 years old and went and bought a bottle of wine the other day and had to show an ID, it’s the least I can do to show an ID to vote.

I think you missed the point.

If you say Democrats are against this law because they tend to win states where this law is not in place, is it not equally true to say Republicans are for it because they tend to win states where it is in place? Same shit different party?

On the larger issue, my honest answer is "I don't know." A democracy is a challenging balancing act. The whole point of a democracy is to have as many citizens a possible participate in the elections. So you have to figure out the net impact of the law on voting to see if it is good policy or bad policy.

To make is simpler, if the law prevents 10 bogus votes from voting and only ends up stopping one legit voter from voting it is a good thing. If it prevents one vote from a bogus voter and stops 10 legitimate voters from voting it is a net loss. I don't know about the impact of these laws on US voter participation to have an informed opinion.

Now, just to end on a cautionary note, I would guess that it is much more likely that poor and poorly educated people find voter ID laws more of an obstacle than the well off and well educated. And I spend a lot of time worrying about how the poor and poorly educated are getting screwed in the modern world.

 

[mdwest]

dont read something into the SAVE act that isnt there..

there is no requirement to provide a US birth certificate.

what is required is to provide PROOF OF US CITIZENSHIP.

To become a US Citizen, you do indeed have to prove who you are beforehand.. which isnt unreasonable..

The myth of cost and complexity is just that.. a myth.. If you are a foreign national that has come to the US and has obtained the right to vote (i.e. became a US Citizen) you have already provided those documents..

If you are a naturally born US Citizen, poll after poll and study after study prove that the D argument that "women", "minorities", etc are disadvantaged prove otherwise..

Would it be an inconvenience for some? sure.. but impossible? hardly...

In this day and age its actually easier than its ever been before... not just to obtain official ID, but to actually vote..

150 years ago good luck getting someone born in Oregon that now lives in Minnesota a birth certificate in a reasonable period of time.. not to mention that records werent great 150 years ago and some people were never issued birth certificates..

Today its a matter of going online..

People literally have to provide ID to file their taxes.. another requirement of all US Citizens..

Somehow everyone that wants a tax return figures it out..

Every state in the Union has a website that allows you to obtain a birth certificate.. a few are below..

Birth Records | Texas DSHS

www.dshs.texas.gov

Loading…

vitalrecords.tn.gov

Loading…

cdphe.colorado.gov

Loading…

www.michigan.gov

and many states also use commercial products to assist people in obtaining their birth certificates if they cant figure it out on their own

Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (MI) | Order Certificates - VitalChek

With VitalChek, easily order your government-issued vital records online including birth certificates, marriage records, death records and divorce records.

www.vitalchek.com

 

[RLD]

It would surprise me if @KJE81, @Pondoro and @RLD were not in Havana right now having a spring break party…

It wouldn't surprise me if you were not in Washington right now taking Trump down your throat and Putin up your ass.

You could make a fortune on Only Fans with that tape.

It appears you are unable to cope with anyone who won't join the MAGA circle jerk. Congrats though, the cookie is all yours...

 

[RLD]

Just because one does not like all of Trumps policies does not mean that one is a communist. I can’t speak for Pondoro or RLD, but I have voted for the swedish conservative party ever since I got old enough to vote. They are however not rightwing populists, more like classical conservatives, like the republicans before Trump/MAGA.

I am a lifelong and active member of the Canadian and Ontario conservative parties.

But some of our friends down south seem to think that MAGA is a conservative movement (it is not) and that the only version of "conservatism" is American conservatism (it is not).

 

[LivingTheDream]

Thats literally what the SAVE act is going to require. It requires a passport, a birth certificate, or REAL ID. Both a REAL ID and a Passport require a certified birth certificate to get, hence, a birth certificate. The problem is the cost and complexity of obtaining documents. Not everyone can obtain a certified copy of their birth certificate.

It is pretty easy to get a copy of your birth certificate, it was easier for me to order a new one then to get my parents to figure out the safe place they put it.

 

[Hunt anything]

@RLD, fair points.
I believe that for the low income or home bound a system should be in place to have a mobile way for them to get an ID at no cost, I believe some states have implemented these.

 

[Big_Easy]

dont read something into the SAVE act that isnt there..

there is no requirement to provide a US birth certificate.

what is required is to provide PROOF OF US CITIZENSHIP.

To become a US Citizen, you do indeed have to prove who you are beforehand.. which isnt unreasonable..

The myth of cost and complexity is just that.. a myth.. If you are a foreign national that has come to the US and has obtained the right to vote (i.e. became a US Citizen) you have already provided those documents..

If you are a naturally born US Citizen, poll after poll and study after study prove that the D argument that "women", "minorities", etc are disadvantaged prove otherwise..

Would it be an inconvenience for some? sure.. but impossible? hardly...

Are you really that simple? For someone born in America, the only way to prove your US citizenship is through a birth certificate. How do you not understand that? If not, what other means do you have to prove you're a citizen, I would generally like to know. Please tell me.

Yes, actually it is impossible for some people. My uncle for one. He was born in 1955 in a rural hospital. He doesn't have a valid ID for more than 10 years now, bc the hospital closed years ago, and they cant find his birth certificate at the state records office. He has an uncertified copy, but that doesnt count.

 

[LivingTheDream]

People literally have to provide ID to file their taxes.. another requirement of all US Citizens..

I was just thinking this arguement of people are too stupid to get an ID but they are expected to file their taxes every year.

Maybe that is the solution you bring you tax paper work from the previous year and then you cam vote.

 

[Big_Easy]

It is pretty easy to get a copy of your birth certificate, it was easier for me to order a new one then to get my parents to figure out the safe place they put it.

No, it really isn't, not for some people. As record keeping and technology advance it will become less of a problem in the future.

 

[LivingTheDream]

No, it really isn't, not for some people. As record keeping and technology advance it will become less of a problem in the future.

There is a good slogan for the government solving yesterday's problems tomorrow.

 

[Big_Easy]

Ok.. so I’ll ask a second time.. where’s your source? What are the correct numbers?

Or are you like pondoro and just like to whine without substantiating anything with fact?

Typical MAGA, insulting people rather than defending your position and actually citing a source.

 

[KJE81]

I was just thinking this arguement of people are too stupid to get an ID but they are expected to file their taxes every year.

Maybe that is the solution you bring you tax paper work from the previous year and then you cam vote.

That sounds like a good idea, really one should have to contribute (ie pay taxes) to be able to vote, unfortunately there seem to be no country were that is a requirement.

Regarding ID, here in Sweden we have to show ID to vote, the election workers then check your id against the electoral register to see if you are eligable to vote and have not allready voted in that election. It seems to be a good way to secure that one person truly only gets to vote once in an election.

I really dont understand way such a requirment is such a far stretch but perhaps there are other things then just voter ID requirments in the SAVE-act that are more controversial? I confess to not having read the whole thing myself.

 

[Big_Easy]

dont read something into the SAVE act that isnt there..

there is no requirement to provide a US birth certificate.

what is required is to provide PROOF OF US CITIZENSHIP.

To become a US Citizen, you do indeed have to prove who you are beforehand.. which isnt unreasonable..

The myth of cost and complexity is just that.. a myth.. If you are a foreign national that has come to the US and has obtained the right to vote (i.e. became a US Citizen) you have already provided those documents..

If you are a naturally born US Citizen, poll after poll and study after study prove that the D argument that "women", "minorities", etc are disadvantaged prove otherwise..

Would it be an inconvenience for some? sure.. but impossible? hardly...

In this day and age its actually easier than its ever been before... not just to obtain official ID, but to actually vote..

150 years ago good luck getting someone born in Oregon that now lives in Minnesota a birth certificate in a reasonable period of time.. not to mention that records werent great 150 years ago and some people were never issued birth certificates..

Today its a matter of going online..

People literally have to provide ID to file their taxes.. another requirement of all US Citizens..

Somehow everyone that wants a tax return figures it out..

Every state in the Union has a website that allows you to obtain a birth certificate.. a few are below..

Birth Records | Texas DSHS

www.dshs.texas.gov

Loading…

vitalrecords.tn.gov

Loading…

cdphe.colorado.gov

Loading…

www.michigan.gov

and many states also use commercial products to assist people in obtaining their birth certificates if they cant figure it out on their own

Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (MI) | Order Certificates - VitalChek

With VitalChek, easily order your government-issued vital records online including birth certificates, marriage records, death records and divorce records.

www.vitalchek.com

You don't need an ID to file taxes. Weird that you would lie about something so easily disprovable? And also, filing taxes isn't required if you make less than a certain minimum amount. Which many poorer people do. Stop making shit up man.

 

[Big_Easy]

I was just thinking this arguement of people are too stupid to get an ID but they are expected to file their taxes every year.

Maybe that is the solution you bring you tax paper work from the previous year and then you cam vote.

Filing taxes doesn't require an ID, what are you talking about.