Politics

[LivingTheDream]

. It’s all about the little stuff. Older generations have no sense of entitlement and are willing to sacrifice minor pleasures with pragmatism.

Oh yeah, let's make changes to Social Security so it can stay solvent...oh yeah didnt think so.

Weird as Boomers got to management positions they slowly got rid of pensions, but made sure they were grandfathered in.

Lets me honest, Boomer's amass wealth not from working any harder or any smarter...the US went to Fiat system, inflated the dollar, and this happened earlier in your careers when you were accumulating assets. The issue we are discussing is essentially a math problem.

 

[LivingTheDream]

If people get on a hardcore budget and savings plan such as Dave Ramsey, they recommend two steps relevant to your comments.

Step 1 - Cut up all your credit cards. Use debit cards with a budget, stop going into debt.

Step 2 - Do not keep a debit card in your wallet. People that use hard cash statistically spend 15%-30% less. When you’re at a gas station and you’re holding $100 bill, you’re far less likely to break it to get a $2 coffee. There is a potent psychology to handing someone real cash whereas digital payment does not trigger the same sensation.

Dave Ramsey has been bankrupt once and never been on an African Safari...just saying

 

[rookhawk]

If you want to know why younger generations are mad, this is the advice they are given.

Yep. It's valid advice and its exactly what the earlier generations endured, but they want their elder's present outcomes. They don't like the advice because they will never "stoop so low" as every prior generation did with gratitude.

It's so entitled and systemic we had to re-title all the employees. No one wants to be a "junior" any title. Interns can't be called interns. I've had people with 4 years experience demanding director titles. I have young people telling me how they expect to buy a first home that is 4 bed rooms and 2500 square feet.

No gratitude. No tenacity. Only a sense of entitlement and an unwillingness to put in their dues and build a life with hard work and self sacrifice.

 

[Doug3006]

Oh yeah, let's make changes to Social Security so it can stay solvent...oh yeah didnt think so.

Weird as Boomers got to management positions they slowly got rid of pensions, but made sure they were grandfathered in.

Lets me honest, Boomer's amass wealth not from working any harder or any smarter...the US went to Fiat system, inflated the dollar, and this happened earlier in your careers when you were accumulating assets. The issue we are discussing is essentially a math problem.

“Weird as Boomers got to management positions they slowly got rid of pensions, but made sure they were grandfathered in.”

We Boomers also introduced the 401K. The most effective wealth-generator in history. I saw my pension plan effectively end when the company stopped funding them. Instead, I maxed out my 401K contributions and cashed in on the company match. Sadly, most people don’t contribute at all. Of those that do, not all contribute enough to max out the company match. This further reinforces my belief that most people aren’t able to manage their affairs.

 

[deewayne2003]

Actually, they did...

View attachment 717464



Do 3-bedroom 1,400 sq. ft homes with a single bathroom even get built today? Also, there are other external factors, population explosion meant that land the homes are built on are much more expensive.

A friend of mine finally sold his home that he had inherited from his grandparents. It was on a double lot in West University, TX (where Rice University is, a little spot within Houston). His grandparents had paid $8K for it many decades ago. He sold it for millions as a teardown. He is moving to Costa Rica to retire.

They compared portion of income, they made no mention purchasing power for dollar earned.

Yes, there are 1,400sqft homes built today.... Their called rental communities and investors have been building them for years; just like hedge funds have been buying up trailer parks for over a decade now because they know it's the last form of affordable housing.

I too know people that are selling old home, buddy just sold his grand parents house that cost $2,600 to build in 1962 for $125K.... in an area with the local yearly income is $32K per year.

You mentioned helping you kids with down payments and good on you for that, but you've also said in previous posts how well educated/employed your children are so it was a safe bet...... But that also isn't a new issue; before COVID 50% of first time home purchasers were "receiving gifts".

 

[deewayne2003]

My wife and I met in high school and married in May 1984, the month after we graduated college. We had a net worth of -$95,000. Yup, nearly $100K under water. We somehow parlayed a couple of offer letters for good jobs and $10k in cash we’d saved working part time jobs into a loan for a $75K condo. Please understand that a $75k condo was far from an AVERAGE home in 1984. It was what we used to call a starter home. Oh yeah, the mortgage interest rate as 13%

So, sell your sad stories elsewhere.

LOL ok your not a fan of sad stories, so lets examine the candy land feel good fairytale you set forth.

So in 1984 your combined debt was $296K in todays money.

The $10K you saved up from part time jobs would be worth $31K..... you must have had excellent part time work (just like the 1986 minimum wage being equivalent of $18hr today)

And you bought a Condo For $75K ($233K in todays money, no mention of size or location or that the average condo price in the USA for 2024 $340K) but the 1984 average USA home price was $80K, California inflated the average even back then but it would be $250K in todays money.

So in todays money your $31K in savings would be $15K shy of the 20% down needed to buy a condo for $233K - IF you could find a condo priced for that in the same location, let alone finding a bank today that would finance you that amount with being $300K underwater......

Oh and I started a business in 2020 with a line of credit at 4.5% interest; last year that same line of credit would have been at 12.75%

 

[275r7x57]

The reason credit cards push the points and miles so hard is the statistics are against you. For every 1 person that "beats" the credit card scam, 99 people eventually carry over a balance. Hence, its why 75% of millionaires have never, ever had credit card debt. (as in not one time in their life)

You and Tanks may be the unicorns that actually get something for nothing, but for the ultra majority of the population, credit cards cause harm rather than deliver good.

Could not agree more. My cc usage is not the norm. I have relatives that have massive cc debt and no business owning one, but the interest and money that their bad decisions incurs make corporations very profitable, not to mention some of my investments.

 

[rookhawk]

LOL ok your not a fan of sad stories, so lets examine the candy land feel good fairytale you set forth.

So in 1984 your combined debt was $296K in todays money.

The $10K you saved up from part time jobs would be worth $31K..... you must have had excellent part time work (just like the 1986 minimum wage being equivalent of $18hr today)

And you bought a Condo For $75K ($233K in todays money, no mention of size or location or that the average condo price in the USA for 2024 $340K) but the 1984 average USA home price was $80K, California inflated the average even back then but it would be $250K in todays money.

So in todays money your $31K in savings would be $15K shy of the 20% down needed to buy a condo for $233K - IF you could find a condo priced for that in the same location, let alone finding a bank today that would finance you that amount with being $300K underwater......

Oh and I started a business in 2020 with a line of credit at 4.5% interest; last year that same line of credit would have been at 12.75%

You're comparing apples to oranges though. The condo in 1984 wasn't just a starter home, it was a shitbox. That same condo today doesn't include the crap windows, harvest gold appliances, and merillat vinyl wrapped cabinets. Nope, that same condo that you adjusted to $233,000 in today's dollars now has luxury stainless appliances, granite counters, remodeled bathrooms, low-e glass in the windows, bluetooth enabled garage door opener, etc. etc.

The asset might be at the same location, the nature of the asset is vastly different. The young buyer today is not entitled to the superior asset, they are entitled to the 1984 quality asset.

 

[275r7x57]

This further reinforces my belief that most people aren’t able to manage their affairs.

Correct and not just financial, all affairs.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Yep. It's valid advice and its exactly what the earlier generations endured, but they want their elder's present outcomes. They don't like the advice because they will never "stoop so low" as every prior generation did with gratitude.

It's so entitled and systemic we had to re-title all the employees. No one wants to be a "junior" any title. Interns can't be called interns. I've had people with 4 years experience demanding director titles. I have young people telling me how they expect to buy a first home that is 4 bed rooms and 2500 square feet.

No gratitude. No tenacity. Only a sense of entitlement and an unwillingness to put in their dues and build a life with hard work and self sacrifice.

There are definitely some like you describing but most arent like that. I find most of them have been told to do x,y,z and now has AI kicking their ass for entry level jobs.

If you advice is that you need to live in a house that would fail the most basic health standards, I sorry that is terrible advice and not one I would tell to my kids or the 22 to 26 year olds I do executive coaching for.

But I interview probably 10 people a week, and maybe 1 out of 100 displays what you are saying.

 

[LivingTheDream]

We Boomers also introduced the 401K. The most effective wealth-generator in history.

Literally proving my point. You created the wealth generator and got in on the ground floor.

Not hating on it, I maxed out mine every year since I was 22 with a company match. I have told everyone under me when they get out of college to max it out.

Actually, most Gen z are better savers for retirement than the previous generations. It is a math problem, over a long enough time period they too will accumulate wealth but it will look different than the way others did it.

 

[Red Leg]

I'll offer a couple of millennial stories.

Our son is our youngest. Growing up an Army brat, he dreamed of becoming an army officer. That dream was crushed when he was 16 and had to undergo a bowel resection as a result of Crohns Disease. He struggled to find his way for more than a decade. He attended George Washington for a time and then left. He picked up an associates degree from a community college, and finally, a bit over ten years ago, he decided to put himself through Texas State Technical Institute, completing a three year medical tech program in two.

He is now the field engineer who services and repairs the imaging equipment for the Baylor, Scott, and White hospital network in the Austin/Temple region which includes the Texas A&M teaching hospital. His wife, who he met in the program, does the same for the equipment of the operating theaters. between the two of them, they have a combined salary well north of 250K (which is meaningful in central Texas) and are about to get a major raise with the end of income tax on overtime. They own a far nicer home than Nancy and I experienced until I left the military.

Our daughter has a hard science BS from A&M and her husband has a management degree from the same university. She has only used her degree as a Vet Tech - as she would say, for the grocery bill. Her husband is doing well with a real estate investment group. But she is the entrepreneur. Her real job is as a horse and equestrian trainer. They live on 20 acres north of Waco, and the current horse count is around seven. She personally built the arena in which she schools horses and trains riders. Most of the Baylor equestrian team are her students. They are doing very well.

Did we help them? Sure. Neither has any college debt and we gave each 10% of their down payment on their homes. Neither needed that to qualify, but it was something we could do for them.

I also am happy to report that they are also solid conservatives.

Neither has ever whined.

 

[John Wasmuth]

The thing about Pete having them all in the same room at the same time, was telling them all the same thing at the same place at the same time so not one of the could say “that’s not what he said” because they all got told the same exact thing. Nothing got twisted and they can’t lie about what he told them, and the best thing is it’s recorded so they can’t distort it. They can be held accountable table for not following up on it.

 

[rookhawk]

There are definitely some like you describing but most arent like that. I find most of them have been told to do x,y,z and now has AI kicking their ass for entry level jobs.

If you advice is that you need to live in a house that would fail the most basic health standards, I sorry that is terrible advice and not one I would tell to my kids or the 22 to 26 year olds I do executive coaching for.

But I interview probably 10 people a week, and maybe 1 out of 100 displays what you are saying.

You're correct. My advice would be that they live where it fails basic health standards. Let me paint you a picture. A young couple down the road a few miles dreamt of being debt free, owning their own land, etc. They saved for a few years and paid $70k cash for some dirt. They moved themselves and their two kids into a yurt on the property. They saved and built lean-tos for firewood, planted apple trees, their garden, etc. A few years go by and their Yurt was pretty nice. A few years later and they built a modest home from scratch on their plot of dirt. They probably have $200k total invested into their little hobby farm. Zero debt. They opted to raise their kids in a tent for a couple years. Now the couple is mid-30s and they own a home that is worth all-in over $500k and their combined incomes were probably around $60k.

They will be millionaires. They had the cajones to do what our forefathers did to get ahead.

Unrelated to money, lets price the intangibles of life as well, happiness. The longest longitudinal study ever performed is the Harvard happiness study. They've been doing it for over 100 years now. The happiest generation of people in American history were the children born in the great depression. It turns out suffering and toiling within an intact family structure generates gratitude, perspective, and resilience. I would suggest the kids that grew up in a yurt for three years will be some of the most flourishing, happy, tough kids on the planet just like the great depression era kids that went hungry some of the time.

Win-win.

 

[Brent in Az]

She likes her media attention

 

[LivingTheDream]

You're correct. My advice would be that they live where it fails basic health standards. Let me paint you a picture. A young couple down the road a few miles dreamt of being debt free, owning their own land, etc. They saved for a few years and paid $70k cash for some dirt. They moved themselves and their two kids into a yurt on the property. They saved and built lean-tos for firewood, planted apple trees, their garden, etc. A few years go by and their Yurt was pretty nice. A few years later and they built a modest home from scratch on their plot of dirt. They probably have $200k total invested into their little hobby farm. Zero debt. They opted to raise their kids in a tent for a couple years. Now the couple is mid-30s and they own a home that is worth all-in over $500k and their combined incomes were probably around $60k.

They will be millionaires. They had the cajones to do what our forefathers did to get ahead

I honestly dont know what your point is, it is a nice story and good for them. But if you are saying a whole generation should raise their kids in tents in order to get ahead. I think that reflects more on the world we left them.

Also, that's not cajones, cajones is my friend who pull out his entire 401k and put it in BTC and Eth in 2017...I wish I could tell you how he is doing but after he quit his job and started traveling I haven't heard from him much.

As for happiness, you cant put a value on it, but I was just as happy when I was flat broke as I am now, happiness is relative.

 

[Doug3006]

Here is your sad story, a person today with a net worth of -95k, with less than 20% down payment isnt getting a loan. So even if they had the cash, they arent getting the chance to buy a starter home. So by todays standards you arent buying that "starter home" either. Your path to wealth just got delayed because you are renting.

Also, fun fact in dealing with banks today, did you know that banks won't consider cash in your bank, actually cash to approve you for a loan. You have to prove how you got the cash. Ask me how I know.

How about this, Boomers have no idea what the Gen Z and Millenials are going through and Gen Z and Millenials cant comprehend some of the stuff Boomers did to get by. Some situations are better, some are worse, but I think stereo typing a whole generation is a bit silly.

I actually agree with your argument that nether age group really understands what the other has experienced. This much I do know. It’s remarkable how many people are receptive to the idea that the deck is stacked against them. That they’ll never exceed expectations. They’ll gladly sit on their arse and wait for “some weird trick” to make them rich. Or elect people to office who understand how to channel their angst to their benefit. Meanwhile, those that do work hard, avoid the big mistakes, save and invest, and pray, more often than not, get ahead.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Meanwhile, those that do work hard, avoid the big mistakes, save and invest, and pray, more often than not, get ahead.

I think this is the key and goes across generations. The two biggest success factors I have seen have been discipline and conviction.

 

[deewayne2003]

You're comparing apples to oranges though. The condo in 1984 wasn't just a starter home, it was a shitbox. That same condo today doesn't include the crap windows, harvest gold appliances, and merillat vinyl wrapped cabinets. Nope, that same condo that you adjusted to $233,000 in today's dollars now has luxury stainless appliances, granite counters, remodeled bathrooms, low-e glass in the windows, bluetooth enabled garage door opener, etc. etc.

The asset might be at the same location, the nature of the asset is vastly different. The young buyer today is not entitled to the superior asset, they are entitled to the 1984 quality asset.

The $233K adjust is just that inflation adjustment- note the $340K for the actual in today’s price…. That shit box was also built by Americans with said quality; not cardboard built by illegals that leave beer bottles in the attic and walls and if that condo still exists it’s probably rented at $2k+ per month.

Luxury upgrades…. You haven’t toured some of the condos in Austin I did, basic appliances and yes granite countertops which are so common their the same price as synthetics.

This is one of the few times in American history where new houses are cheaper than existing.

There is market correction taking place, my banker says that 1/3 of housing appraisals are not matching the contract price; just 3 years ago that was not an issue.

 

[Russ16]

I actually agree with your argument that nether age group really understands what the other has experienced. This much I do know. It’s remarkable how many people are receptive to the idea that the deck is stacked against them. That they’ll never exceed expectations. They’ll gladly sit on their arse and wait for “some weird trick” to make them rich. Or elect people to office who understand how to channel their angst to their benefit. Meanwhile, those that do work hard, avoid the big mistakes, save and invest, and pray, more often than not, get ahead.

Agree with this. Almost every generation thinks the one after them doesn’t work as hard and makes bad decisions. And most romanticize what the previous generation had.

Some things are harder for a 20 year old today and some are easier.

Mint every baby boomer hit it big. My parents didn’t. Some of that was choices some was bad luck. They prioritized spending on private education for 4 kids and ensuring we had paid for college and if we wanted graduate school. Combine that with some bad breaks in business and they never built wealth. Do t tell me they didn’t work hard because they did I watched them.

They are comfortable in retirement but not traveling except to stay with kids and see grand kids. My dad never got to Africa as he dreamed but my brother and I did take him to Argentina and for a grizzly in Alaska.

I got lucky with some choices I made early in life but I have friends who didn’t. Some of them worked harder that I did and got less out of it. So I’m 50 and my brother and I are taking our first trip to Africa next year. And I’ll probably book trip 2 at DSC. I’d have gone earlier but a divorce did set me back.

My point js it is t so easy as work hard and save money for any generation. There is luck involved and timing and circumstances.

But the bottom line is we should all care about making the world a better place now and in the future. We won’t get there by blaming or shaming people. Let’s just figure out how to provide the most opportunity to the widest selection of people. Sometimes that means policies that don’t benefit us directly or even hurt us a little. But it’s better for the country in the long run which ultimately means alls of us in the long run.

But that’s not a fun attitude in the screaming news shows or political theater and not good fodder for internet debates.

Sorry for the rant.