Politics

[steve white]

Good points. However assimilation does not happen overnight.
I met old Cajuns in LA 30 years ago while duck hunting telling me they were beaten in the classrooms because they were speaking French(cajun) among themselves.
Remember pictures of NO Irish allowed at the entrance of bars, restaurants..
How long did it take these people to get assimilated in our country?
Point is people becomes less assimilated and more enclaved when they are painted all with the same brush and all called terrorist or sympathizers.
Do you think Hamas will have a hard time recruiting in Gaza in the next decade?
I can't get into specifics but I'm sure as a flag rank officer you how many attacks we have thwarted by the work of people some call all terrorists.

naive equivalence...

 

[steve white]

My point exactly. It takes time and it won't occur at all if we succeed Balkanizing the country creating permanent self-sustaining enclaves.

I'll preface these thoughts by noting I am Arab speaker (or at least I was - it is a very perishable skill set) and have held a fellowship at the Walsh School, Contemporary Arab Studies, Georgetown. That doesn't mean I know squat but it does mean it is a subject I have thought about over the years. I would appreciate your perspective.

In my view, an aspect of Islam that is uniquely problematic is that unlike Christianity, it has never gone through a reformation. There have been schisms, Sunni and Shia are the best known in the West, but never a reform movement, particularly one tied to something so revolutionary as the Enlightenment.

Much Western culture is in conflict with traditional Islamic social mores. Whether it is women's rights and freedoms, our explicit entertainment, or simply sitting around a really good bottle of wine with friends. There is no Islamic movement yet that would make embracing these cultural norms appropriate for a "good" Muslim. One of the real release valves we have in the West is our broad array of religious options. From fundamentalist evangelicals, to the ceremony of Catholicism, the orderliness of Episcopalian prayer books, the pragmatism of Presbyterianism, or nothing formal at all there is a choice which supports Western culture coupled with being a "good" Christian.

The Jewish faith has had its own reform movement offering the choice of very traditional or very contemporary cultural environments for belief.

It is much more difficult for a Muslim. It is true that a Muslim is allowed to subordinate his beliefs while in Dar al-Harb (the world of conflict) until it or he is returned to Dar al-Islam. But that is a poor base upon which to build a permanent life in a foreign culture. All too often, I think we fail to understand the appeal of the siren song of Islamic revolutionary movements to young Muslims, growing up in a academic or technocrat home, who all too often are adrift from their faith.

I don't pretend to have an answer to this challenge. Of one thing that I think I am certain is that such cultural differences reinforced by a fundamentalist religion will make assimilation a far longer process than for many other groups.

By the way, I was born in Thibodaux, Louisiana and grew up in Lake Charles. I am very familiar with the French diaspora in Southwest Louisiana. Yet, I would argue their challenges are nothing compared to those faced by many Muslims in the West.

How can there ever be a reformation if Islamic schools begin teaching hatred at an early age?! The Madrassa schools will churn out radicals and create terrorists all by themselves--they don't need an angering incident at the hands of Israel to do so. Fact is, I have met a good many Christian Palestinians who hate the Jews and would like to see them driven into the sea because that is how they were raised to think. You are right--there is/will be no easy answer. And what pray tell do you do with a populace so brainwashed when any western influence is unavailable to change their mindset?

 

[Flipper Dude]

I spent a lot of time during my youth not too far down the road from there… my mother’s side of the family are all spread around Amite, Tickfaw, Independence, and Hammond.

Wonderful memories… and even better food!

Yeah, its too bad some restaurant in Dallas cannot actually cook true cajun food!
[/QUOTE]

I can cook you some, ami. Made a nice duck and dove gumbo with some tater salad this weekend. C’mon.

 

[Doug3006]

I came across this YouTube article regarding the future of South Africa. It provides a pretty gloomy outlook. I’m not sure that it’s 100% on target with all of its facts, but I‘m afraid its conclusion is correct. SA is far along the path of becoming a failed state.

 

[steve white]

Let me start saying that I'm not a church goer and don't care much about any religion.
I feel like nature is my church and I believe in the supreme being, call it God, Allah, Shiva whatever.
However having a brother living in Canada, another one in London and having worked with many different religions, I can tell you with certainty that this article is full of lies.
In 2016, Sadiq Khan ran to become the mayor of London and was elected with 57% of the vote. He became just the third ever London Mayor and is London's first Muslim mayor and first ethnic minority mayor.
Remind you he got most of his votes from Christians which makes the %90 of London.
I'm guessing you live in Africa and have no idea how many patriotic Muslim men and women working within our intelligence services at Federal and local level to deter and prevent terrorist attacks everyday.
There are bad people in every religion and I think religion itself is the cause of many deaths and suffering in the course of history, be it Christians killing Jews or Muslims killing Christians, HIndus killing Muslims etc..
However it's a terrible and dangerous and a xenophobic thing to paint all the people with the same brush no matter what religion they believe in.

So, the article is full of lies--name one! The article describes a clear and present danger and the west is in danger of passing a tipping point. You would have us re-arrange deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[jpr9954]

I. wish someone would carjack Soros...permanently--a truly evil man!

And his son who I understand is just as bad and will get Daddy's money.

 

[cash_tx]

Seems appropriate... ;-)

 

[steve white]

I’d say possible.. but highly improbable for 2 reasons…

95-97 was the peak of the Clinton Reduction In Force (RIF), which started in 93… one of the largest, fastest (and much to my chagrin since I’m not a Clinton fan), and most successful force reductions in US military history… the armed services budget was cut by 15% over a short period of time and most malcontents and/or anyone that was less than a stellar soldier for any reason was at a significant risk for getting pushed out.. whether it was inappropriate behavior, inappropriate tattoos, a dwi, or just not a great performer… the 90’s were a period that the military stayed in pretty positive behavior.. or… you found yourself not in the military… even if what you “did” was 10 years prior…

And…anyone that enlisted in 1972 that was still serving in 1995 is going to be a VERY senior NCO… if they weren’t, see point 1 above… they would be gone… and a very senior NCO isn’t going to be hanging out and telling I almost went to jail stories to young enlisted guys… while 1 might be a dumbass and cross those lines of professionalism.. 2 or more aren’t going to do it.. especially not in the mid 90’s…

If someone told datchew in the mid 90’s that a judge gave him a choice… to red legs point… the guy was straight up lying (the military was trying to get rid of people.. not bring in potential problem children).. and that person was very likely a young fairly new enlistee that was just talking shit…

The issue as I see it is… anyone that was serving in the 90s would also know all of this and likely not fall for the bullshit lie of some E1-E4 telling it…

Have family memories of those funding cuts...like my brother in the AF having to pay his own fare via commercial airlines to return home from "training missions." What an embarrassment to treat our personnel that way.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[CoElkHunter]

I was just now reading an article where Israel is seriously rethinking a ground invasion of Gaza. Maybe that's a smart move because the death toll of Palestinian civilians and Israeli soldiers would be in the thousands. World opinion, even within Arab countries somewhat neutral and/or not so friendly to Israel, would be on the Israelis side, at least publicly. As an alternative to a ground invasion, COULD be that Israel reserves the right to bomb Hamas militants and their infrastructure whenever they locate them inside Gaza FOREVER. The IDF could also reserve the right to kill every Hamas terrorist in ANY country they find them without notice. The article, which included opinions of both former and current IDF Intelligence and military officials, stated that if Hezbollah became involved in the conflict, they could rain down 5K missiles a DAY on Israel and send 8K fighters into Israel attacking towns, which the Israeli military would have a difficult mission in stopping them. I don't know what the answer is in eradicating Hamas, but if they're hiding in the vast array of tunnels under Gaza, maybe playing "whack a mole" with artillery and bombs forever, may mitigate their ability to do anything. The IDF could also reserve the right to blockade and/or destroy ANYTHING that could bring missiles and other armament into Gaza.

 

[Dewald]

I came across this YouTube article regarding the future of South Africa. It provides a pretty gloomy outlook. I’m not sure that it’s 100% on target with all of its facts, but I‘m afraid its conclusion is correct. SA is far along the path of becoming a failed state.

Rather the devil you know… South Africa is still a land of great opportunity, and I would , especially given what is happening around the world, much rather live here, than in Europe, the Middle or Far East or The Americas.

Yes we have problems, but we know how to circumvent them, and for the industrious, financial opportunities open up regularly.

I’m sure a plethora of PHs will agree with me.

Oh, and did I mention the hunting?

 

[Wheels]

 

[fourfive8]

As to how Biden is handling the US role in the war in Israel or what he really thinks about it (if at all)??--- I think many are influenced by the MSM especially if not paying close attention to history or if viewed through an international media lens. Obama, Rice and Biden have a long and not so secret history of not being great allies to Israel. History shows they have been and surely are now more like Iranian apologists, always running a slick sell, deceptive side deal with Iran. I do not trust Biden's motives nor that of his puppet boy SofS. Sadly, IMO, many underestimate how deceptive and corrupt of character this bunch in power really is.

 

[Doubleplay]

So, the article is full of lies--name one! The article describes a clear and present danger and the west is in danger of passing a tipping point. You would have us re-arrange deck chairs on the Titanic.

Well to start with, Londoner's in UK doesn't think like you or the of the author of article.
They elected a Muslim mayor in Christian majority city.
On top of that Germany where's the author is from, the State Parliament elected a woman with a visibly non-German ethnic background and a muslim, to the second-highest office in the state.
These are the fact and there are many more.
I'm not here to educate you or anybody on that matter and also I'm not here to pit any religion against the other like the author who's a xenophobic and probably a racist.
To be honest I don't give a ... believe what you want.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

 

[Boyd Brooks]

 

[fourfive8]

Rather the devil you know… South Africa is still a land of great opportunity, and I would , especially given what is happening around the world, much rather live here, than in Europe, the Middle or Far East or The Americas.

Yes we have problems, but we know how to circumvent them, and for the industrious, financial opportunities open up regularly.

I’m sure a plethora of PHs will agree with me.

Oh, and did I mention the hunting?

Lot of truth in that based on my experience. There are areas in most US cities that are creepy dangerous. A feeling I’ve never had wandering around some of the poorest slums and rural communities in other countries. There is a difference. I can’t define it exactly, but I think it is at the most basic level of the subculture. One problem though that US citizens lose sight of is that the US Constitution is unique and only here. But given the current state of affairs here in the US, with a weaponized DOJ and a corrupt justice system, I have my doubts about the basic and unique protections as articulated in the US Constitution.

 

[Red Leg]

How can there ever be a reformation if Islamic schools begin teaching hatred at an early age?! The Madrassa schools will churn out radicals and create terrorists all by themselves--they don't need an angering incident at the hands of Israel to do so. Fact is, I have met a good many Christian Palestinians who hate the Jews and would like to see them driven into the sea because that is how they were raised to think. You are right--there is/will be no easy answer. And what pray tell do you do with a populace so brainwashed when any western influence is unavailable to change their mindset?

Never said such a religious revolution was even likely, merely that it was important to understand that it has never happened. Because of that, it is particularly difficult for a practicing Muslim to assimilate into Western Culture. That really isn't a unique perspective of mine, but is an observation that has been voiced by both Western and Eastern scholars though with somewhat different emphasis in the East. It was an understood issue we often debated at the Walsh School back in the early nineties.

What we are seeing today is an extended laboratory test of that debate being conducted across Western Europe and parts of the US.

Throughout Europe, for every Mayor of London there are enclaves of thousands of Muslims that have become practically no go zones for law enforcement. As you note, they attend their own schools and mosques all too often led by fundamentalists who reject nearly every aspect of the culture in which they have been transplanted. Rather than assimilation, religious and cultural differences are hardening in those ghettos.

@Doubleplay offered the example of the election of a Muslim in Germany. Frankly, that election is noteworthy because its uniqueness. German friends are selling their home in the Spessart mountains because a Muslim migrant enclave of around 500 people has been established adjacent to their village with roughly the same population. They are leaving because their teenage daughters are now subject to the lewdest possible harassment from their new neighbors. Whatever that may be called, it is not assimilation. And I should add our friends are as well educated as anyone on this forum.

None of this has anything to do with racism. In fact shouting racism has become a typical refuge for those unable or unwilling to discuss the issue. The real issue is that in the name of some ill thought out progressive gesture, we are trying to integrate cultures that are fundamentally different. In fact many of those differences are dangerously antagonistic. I should hasten to again add those are hardly original thoughts, but they very much match the original observations I have made over a professional lifetime studying and interacting with the Islamic, and particularly Arab world.

As has been pointed out in this thread, assimilation takes time. I believe the West would be extremely wise to turn off the migrant faucet for a generation and let this experiment run its course. I personally think it would only be opened again at the barest trickle.

 

[Red Leg]

Yet another Trump attorney has pled guilty in the Georgia case and has agreed to fully cooperate with the court. Interesting reversal. Ellis had a reputation of being one of the true believers in Trump.

I wonder if Trump could cut a deal to testify against Giuliani?

I have to assume these guilty pleas mean nothing to the Trump acolytes? I mean, after all the governor and secretary of state were immediately written off as RINOs and swamp creatures for certifying the election and not going along with this scheme.

Trump 2020 lawyer Jenna Ellis pleads guilty in Georgia election case, the latest to flip

Ellis is the latest co-defendant of former President Donald Trump to take a deal, joining Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro.

www.cnbc.com

 

[WAB]

Never said such a religious revolution was even likely, merely that it was important to understand that it has never happened. Because of that, it is particularly difficult for a practicing Muslim to assimilate into Western Culture. That really isn't a unique perspective of mine, but is an observation that has been voiced by both Western and Eastern scholars though with somewhat different emphasis in the East. It was an understood issue we often debated at the Walsh School back in the early nineties.

What we are seeing today is an extended laboratory test of that debate being conducted across Western Europe and parts of the US.

Throughout Europe, for every Mayor of London there are enclaves of thousands of Muslims that have become practically no go zones for law enforcement. As you note, they attend their own schools and mosques all too often led by fundamentalists who reject nearly every aspect of the culture in which they have been transplanted. Rather than assimilation, religious and cultural differences are hardening in those ghettos.

@Doubleplay offered the example of the election of a Muslim in Germany. Frankly, that election is noteworthy because its uniqueness. German friends are selling their home in the Spessart mountains because a Muslim migrant enclave of around 500 people has been established adjacent to their village with roughly the same population. They are leaving because their teenage daughters are now subject to the lewdest possible harassment from their new neighbors. Whatever that may be called, it is not assimilation. And I should add our friends are as well educated as anyone on this forum.

None of this has anything to do with racism. In fact shouting racism has become a typical refuge for those unable or unwilling to discuss the issue. The real issue is that in the name of some ill thought out progressive gesture, we are trying to integrate cultures that are fundamentally different. In fact many of those differences are dangerously antagonistic. I should hasten to again add those are hardly original thoughts, but they very much match the original observations I have made over a professional lifetime studying and interacting with the Islamic, and particularly Arab world.

As has been pointed out in this thread, assimilation takes time. I believe the West would be extremely wise to turn off the migrant faucet for a generation and let this experiment run its course. I personally think it would only be opened again at the barest trickle.

Very well made point. A macro driver that many don’t understand is economics. We talk about immigration like these European countries have a choice. The reality is that their birth rates are insufficient to maintain their economies. The only available workforce to allow for continued economic growth are Muslim immigrants. This die was cast decades ago. Current political disruptions have not caused the macro effect, birth rates have.