Odd ball penetration question but curious...

[soumya sarkar]

Will a 470 ne bullet in a close charge situation be able to pass thru the thick boss of a cape buffalo and reach the brain?

 

[RR 314]

Just shoot a soft bossed young lad in the void. . I know that is not responsive to the request, but I could see a solid penetrating to the boss/skull but certainly would not recommend trying it. I bet one of the numerous PHs on here has seen a boss shot. Tuned in for responses.

 

[soumya sarkar]

Understand it’s is not ideal, but in a precarious situation where a ideal shot is not possible I want to know from experienced hunters

 

[Sarg]

Depends on the bullet used & size of the Boss a bit, but I suspect most times it would get through, better to be just under the Boss but will depend on head angle & wither you are standing or on the ground ?

I shot a Water Buffalo charging last season & was a little high as he came in fast, the shot still stunned him or put him off his game for the next few shots, no thick Boss on him but would be similar.

Had a hunter shoot a Cape Buff cow through the horn with his 9.3X74 & it with through no trouble lol !

 

[Boyd Brooks]

My PH shot this guy at 7 yards, 458 Lott.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

The 500Gr flat nosed Barnes Banded Solid can easily do it. I've seen it done in Botswana by one of our white hunters.

My friend, Mr. Mark Sullivan of Nitro Express Safaris currently uses a .577 Nitro Express Heym Model 88B. Using 750Gr Cutting Edge Bullets monolithic brass flat nosed Safari Solids (loaded by Superior Ammo), he has zero problems shooting through the boss of a Cape buffalo and reaching the brain.

I personally used a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum (loaded with RWS factory loaded 300Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids) to shoot through the boss on a Cape buffalo in 1976. The solid reached his brain and downed him on the spot.

Nevertheless, this feat should only be attempted with monolithic or thick steel jacketed FMJ solids. I knew an American client hunter in Kenya, 1974 who attempted the "Boss" shot on a Cape buffalo with a .458 Winchester Magnum post '64 Model 70. He was using Winchester Super Speed factory loaded 500Gr gilding metal jacketed FMJ solids. The bullet came to pieces upon striking the animal's boss. If our white hunter, Mr. Cheffings had not fired the shot which stopped the charging bull in time... then, things could have gotten very ugly really soon. Mr. Cheffings was armed with a .458 Winchester Magnum BSA Majestic, loaded with older pre '69 Winchester Super Speed factory loaded 500Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids.

 

[soumya sarkar]

The 500Gr flat nosed Barnes Banded Solid can easily do it. I've seen it done in Botswana by one of our white hunters.

My friend, Mr. Mark Sullivan of Nitro Express Safaris currently uses a .577 Nitro Express Heym Model 88B. Using 750Gr Cutting Edge Bullets monolithic brass flat nosed Safari Solids (loaded by Superior Ammo), he has zero problems shooting through the boss of a Cape buffalo and reaching the brain.

I personally used a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum (loaded with RWS factory loaded 300Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids) to shoot through the boss on a Cape buffalo in 1976. The solid reached his brain and downed him on the spot.

Nevertheless, this feat should only be attempted with monolithic or thick steel jacketed FMJ solids. I knew an American client hunter in Kenya, 1974 who attempted the "Boss" shot on a Cape buffalo with a .458 Winchester Magnum post '64 Model 70. He was using Winchester Super Speed factory loaded 500Gr gilding metal jacketed FMJ solids. The bullet came to pieces upon striking the animal's boss. If our white hunter, Mr. Cheffings had not fired the shot which stopped the charging bull in time... then, things could have gotten very ugly really soon. Mr. Cheffings was armed with a .458 Winchester Magnum BSA Majestic, loaded with older pre '69 Winchester Super Speed factory loaded 500Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids.

Thanks for your perspective Golam saheb. Now I understand why some folks prefer a soft and solid combo in a DB. Dr Robertson advises in using a soft first shot followed by a NF CPS as a devastating combo in 500 grains thru the barrel of a 470 ne.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Thanks for your perspective Golam saheb. Now I understand why some folks prefer a soft and solid combo in a DB. Dr Robertson advises in using a soft first shot followed by a NF CPS as a devastating combo in 500 grains thru the barrel of a 470 ne.

Soumya, I really want you to succeed in your impending Cape buffalo hunt. So trust me. Listen to your white hunter. Practice shooting off sticks with your beautiful .470 Nitro Express Kreighoff Big Five. Let him get you in the perfect broadside position to the Cape buffalo. Give him two good heart-lung shots behind the shoulder with 500Gr Swift A Frames. Or at least a pair of good double lung shots. The margin for error on a double lung shot for Cape buffalo is pretty forgiving since this is the largest target on the animal’s body. That dagga boy won’t go 100 yards after your're through with him.

Boss shot is not something that I recommend to a first time Cape buffalo hunter (although I have 100% confidence in your shooting abilities).

 

[soumya sarkar]

Soumya, I really want you to succeed in your impending Cape buffalo hunt. So trust me. Listen to your white hunter. Practice shooting off sticks with your beautiful .470 Nitro Express Kreighoff Big Five. Let him get you in the perfect broadside position to the Cape buffalo. Give him two good heart-lung shots behind the shoulder with 500Gr Swift A Frames. Or at least a pair of good double lung shots. The margin for error on a double lung shot for Cape buffalo is pretty forgiving since this is the largest target on the animal’s body. That dagga boy won’t go 100 yards after your're through with him.

Boss shot is not something that I recommend to a first time Cape buffalo hunter (although I have 100% confidence in your shooting abilities).

Thank you! with your and everyone wishes I’m sure I will be successful. I’m practicing shooting off a tripod and at the same time practicing my reloads with a level of success. It is a process but I’m happy to where I’ve been able to get in a short time. Have to keep at it and be patient with diligence.
I postponed my June hunt to next June primarily to further hone my skills and more importantly my wife can join me in the safari.
Your recommendation to use A frames is appreciated that’s why I have a box of them directly from swift (loaded) ammo kept aside. It’s a issue when you have choices in terms of having Norma Woodleigh RNSN and FMJ, Federal Sledgehammers and Barnes TSX, Hornady DGX, and my reloads with NF CPS, Swift, Nosler solids, Hornady and Woodleighs.
I’m target practicing now, once I reach my level of satisfaction will try all these out and then choose a select few for the hunt. I may have to roll the dice to get the ultimate two

 

[IvW]

Will a 470 ne bullet in a close charge situation be able to pass thru the thick boss of a cape buffalo and reach the brain?

Rhino solid shank 500 Jeff has no problem smashing through a buff boss at close range......no need for solids....much more damage caused as well....

 

[soumya sarkar]

Rhino solid shank 500 Jeff has no problem smashing through a buff boss at close range......no need for solids....much more damage caused as well....

You are killing me heard so much of the solid shanks that I really want to get hands on some. Unfortunately no response to my email to the new owners.previous owners had been responsive but then I heard of some quality control issues which I think has been fixed.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

You are killing me heard so much of the solid shanks that I really want to get hands on some. Unfortunately no response to my email to the new owners.previous owners had been responsive but then I heard of some quality control issues which I think has been fixed.

The previous bullets were excellent but were occasionally a couple of grains inconsistent in weight.

The newly manufactured ones have solved even this tiny inconsistency.

Rhino Solid Shanks and DZOMBO MK. VI solids are the best African made bullets on the current market today.

 

[TOBY458]

A good solid from an adequate caliber will shoot completely through the skull of a bull elephant. I’d say the boss on a Cape buffalo would offer no contest at all.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

The previous bullets were excellent but were occasionally a couple of grains inconsistent in weight.

The newly manufactured ones have solved even this tiny inconsistency.

Rhino Solid Shanks and DZOMBO MK. VI solids are the best African made bullets on the current market today.

Habib,

If a hunter with your experience believes that these bullets are the best, the rest of us would be foolish not to believe it. Keep writing. We learn a lot!

Doug

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Habib,

If a hunter with your experience believes that these bullets are the best, the rest of us would be foolish not to believe it. Keep writing. We learn a lot!

Doug

Why thank you, Doug. But I am still learning something new everyday. Up until IvW mentioned it, I had absolutely no idea that the Rhino Solid Shank (an expanding bullet) can penetrate the boss of a Cape buffalo.

But to be fair, these bullets do have their rear halves (or "Shanks") made completely out of monolithic copper. So straight line penetration is far superior to conventional lead cored expanding bullets (like Woodleighs). So it's entirely plausible.

 

[Luvthunt]

Habib,

If a hunter with your experience believes that these bullets are the best, the rest of us would be foolish not to believe it. Keep writing. We learn a lot!

Doug

Yes, this forum is fortunate to have folks like you and IVW et al. Comments straight and not full of ?
Thank you

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Why thank you, Doug. But I am still learning something new everyday. Up until IvW mentioned it, I had absolutely no idea that the Rhino Solid Shank (an expanding bullet) can penetrate the boss of a Cape buffalo.

But to be fair, these bullets do have their rear halves (or "Shanks") made completely out of monolithic copper. So straight line penetration is far superior to conventional lead cored expanding bullets (like Woodleighs). So it's entirely plausible.

North Fork has the same solid shank construction and is available in the US

 

[soumya sarkar]

North Fork has the same solid shank construction and is available in the US

Are you referring to their cup points or SS?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

North Fork has the same solid shank construction and is available in the US

Also the Trophy Bonded Claw. But those are getting next to impossible to find, these days.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Was referring to the SS but they all have the solid shank.

I suppose any of the monometal bullets like a Barnes could be considered also to have a solid shank.